SFNL Div 3 2017

[Number 9]

IMO, 10 team comps are ideal because most leagues don't have the luxury of extending the season beyond 18 rounds due to cricket season, and this offers the fairest draw whereby everyone plays each other twice.

The remaining 14 team are left in the hurt locker!

If, as suggested, there will be up to 4 teams coming in over the next 2 - 3 years why not go the option of two 7 team divisions and create a 4th division? It's inevitable that a 4th division will eventuate with 4 more teams anyway so why not bite the bullet early and let current clubs become accustomed to it BEFORE the new teams come in?

Everyone plays each other 3 times with 3 byes. 21 week season and 3 weeks of finals based around a top 4 system. Would extend the current season by 2 weeks but to work around that, we don't have the interleague round off in Div 3 & 4, so theoretically, the season is only 1 week longer.

Could possibly also look at a 2 up, 2 down scenario for Div 3 & 4 only. Just another thought.

 

[random observer]

Hypothetically, if the league are serious about a 10,10,14 structure I'd suggest most blokes playing at Dandy seek other clubs asap, a fixture looms where they play Hallam, Hills, HP, BR, Ashwood, (demoted Div2) that's gonna be a long 6-7 weeks, even Sth Yarra...... hope Dandy improve, but in June/July it will be tough & when your on the bottom below 13 clubs, it has southern dragons written all over it

How much difference would it make? This year, CPL (3rd last) belted Sandown by 80pts and 109pts. They beat Dandenong by 46pts (which was closer than it sounds - it was tight until 3/4 time, but Dandenong just couldn't kick a goal to save themselves), but smacked them by 125pts on the return game. Unless Sandown and Dandenong improve by a hell of a lot, 2018 is going to be a long year for them no matter how the league is structured.

Has anything more been heard about Chelsea coming across? From all this about getting the structure in place, it makes me think this is not happening.

 

[Tigersman]

The area of concern is the south east.
I'd like to see the league provide some sort of long term plan showing how they would like to see things evolve in the area. A tough thing to do given the SEFNL issues, but at least we would have some idea of the greater plan for the region.
If that includes one or two clubs merging/ moving or folding then at least the reality will be known and those discussions can start.

I could see the whole SEFNL coming over to our league. It would be disastrous for a couple of clubs including mine, but is it the best way forward for the area? Possibly

 

[CobraCod]

The area of concern is the south east.
I'd like to see the league provide some sort of long term plan showing how they would like to see things evolve in the area. A tough thing to do given the SEFNL issues, but at least we would have some idea of the greater plan for the region.
If that includes one or two clubs merging/ moving or folding then at least the reality will be known and those discussions can start.

Merge Doveton Eagles & Dandy. Zero point having two dovetons & these two are neighbours.

Dandy Eagles?

 

[Tigersman]

Merge Doveton Eagles & Dandy. Zero point having two dovetons & these two are neighbours.

Dandy Eagles?

Hallam and Doveton got close a few years back. Would have been a decent side!

I think the reality is that the league need to get involved and perhaps start to spell out the reality to all clubs in the area, if that's the way they see it.

It's very hard to get two healthy clubs to consider mergers etc and often it's too late for struggling clubs.

 

[peter duncan]

the sefnl had 5div a few years a and now it is down to 3div teams that could not keep up just folded

 

[onthemove77]

C

the sefnl had 5div a few years a and now it is down to 3div teams that could not keep up just folded

What?

 

[hansie]

C

What?

What he is saying that when the sfl started as a merger of the old sesfl and eastern suburban churches league there was about 50 clubs across 5 divisions. Some folded or merged, others changed comps (ammos and efl mostly). A number of the old churches sides folded as church became less and less a part of people's lives..?

On GT-I9505 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[onthemove77]

I

What he is saying that when the sfl started as a merger of the old sesfl and eastern suburban churches league there was about 50 clubs across 5 divisions. Some folded or merged, others changed comps (ammos and efl mostly). A number of the old churches sides folded as church became less and less a part of people's lives..?

On GT-I9505 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I wasn't aware of the history, thank you for explaining it in English.

 

[Bounceback]

Sandown and Dandenong should now hand their keys back. The stroke of the pen allowing another club into this region who have money to burn, people and resources will destroy them. A mate reckons it's a new way of getting rid of poor performing clubs. Get a better one in so they just close. Cheaper and easier to handle.

 

[Billy the Lid]

Sandown and Dandenong should now hand their keys back. The stroke of the pen allowing another club into this region who have money to burn, people and resources will destroy them. A mate reckons it's a new way of getting rid of poor performing clubs. Get a better one in so they just close. Cheaper and easier to handle.

It’s not as if Hampton Park are a new club. They have been around for over 50 years so any negative impact might be overstated. While it may perhaps have some effect on their immediate neighbours, it is a bit of stretch to suggest that Hampton Park will affect Sandown. They are miles apart.

I reckon Sandown have gone into recess twice over the last 20 years and Dandy have been battling for years. A stack of the junior clubs in that area have also folded over the last 10 -15 years. Hope they can both survive and proposer but HP coming in will not be the reason for their demise if sadly it does happen.

 

[RockliffisGod]

It’s not as if Hampton Park are a new club. They have been around for over 50 years so any negative impact might be overstated. While it may perhaps have some effect on their immediate neighbours, it is a bit of stretch to suggest that Hampton Park will affect Sandown. They are miles apart.

I reckon Sandown have gone into recess twice over the last 20 years and Dandy have been battling for years. A stack of the junior clubs in that area have also folded over the last 10 -15 years. Hope they can both survive and proposer but HP coming in will not be the reason for their demise if sadly it does happen.

Its about 10 to 15 minutes down a freeway.
Ask any of the div 3 clubs where the majority of their players are recruited from, most of them are in that growth corridor spanning from Narre to Clyde/Pakky.

So throwing a cashed up club amongst it does in fact affect them.
And it does not matter if Hampton Park have been around 50 years, in fact its an indictment on that club for not being able to grow with the competition it resides in.

 

[Billy the Lid]

Its about 10 to 15 minutes down a freeway.
Ask any of the div 3 clubs where the majority of their players are recruited from, most of them are in that growth corridor spanning from Narre to Clyde/Pakky.

So throwing a cashed up club amongst it does in fact affect them.
And it does not matter if Hampton Park have been around 50 years, in fact its an indictment on that club for not being able to grow with the competition it resides in.

So I assume it is the same indictment on Dingley, Bentleigh and Keysborough and others who joined the SFL recently for not being able to grow within the competition they (previously) resided in?

I get that it may affect clubs in the immediate vicinity but we need to wait and see. Players who still aspire to compete at a decent level may jump off HP and join Cranny, Narre, Beacy etc. I also note that the best 3 sides in Div. 3 this year (DE, EH and Hallam) are virtually on top of each other. Didn’t seem to affect them too much. In fact the local rivalry may have helped them grow and prosper.

The issue with the SESL is that the lack of promotion/relegation system means the same handful of clubs dominate every year and there was not a glimmer of hope for HP is they stayed in that league. I reckon the remaining clubs will likely be absorbed by other leagues within a few years anyway.

Introducing start up clubs has more impact that accepting an established club IMO. (And Sandown is nowhere near Hampton Park!)

 

[Jane Doe]

How much difference would it make? This year, CPL (3rd last) belted Sandown by 80pts and 109pts. They beat Dandenong by 46pts (which was closer than it sounds - it was tight until 3/4 time, but Dandenong just couldn't kick a goal to save themselves), but smacked them by 125pts on the return game. Unless Sandown and Dandenong improve by a hell of a lot, 2018 is going to be a long year for them no matter how the league is structured.

Has anything more been heard about Chelsea coming across? From all this about getting the structure in place, it makes me think this is not happening.

Chelsea as far as I am aware are staying in the mpnfl. They are happy with the restructure that has taken place there

 

[Big Jablonski]

"And it does not matter if Hampton Park, (insert club as required) your choices include the following
1. Sandown
2.Dandenong West
3. Black Rock
4. South yarra
5. Lyndale
6. Lyndhurst
7. any other struggling metropolitan club
have been around 50 years, in fact its an indictment on that club for not being able to grow with the competition it resides in."

Give us a spell knucklehead.
Why attack a group of volunteers that are trying to provide a game of footy and netball to the youth of their area?
You make out as if they are going to drive their tanks and F1-11's down the freeway and obliterate three suburbs on the way to implementing a scorched earth policy like that naughty little boy Adolf did 75 years ago and steal all of treasure!
Four wins in six years. FOUR.
Also remember that they are a football and netball club. One entity.
At the end of 2016 over fifty players walked because they could not cop repeatedly losing. What a great effort to get two sides up every week in 2017.
Just the same effort that Dandy West and Sandown and Dingly and Endeavour Hills put in each week.
How many of those fifty were accepted by SFL clubs? Derbyshire etc at Mordi et al. More than came into HPFNC!
17 went to one club in the bush alone.
Sometimes organisations have to make big and dramatic changes to ensure that their clubs survive.
If they did not get a footy side up last year, then 50 netballers also don't get to play. I heard that they also sent over 35 girls away because the SEFNL only allow clubs to have 4 senior sides. This is just ridiculous. "no sorry you cant join our club because the comp wont allow it"
I say well done to Hampton Park for keeping sport alive in an ever changing demographic, for having international cuisine nights on a Thursday, for doing what they can as volunteers in their area and for having the gonads to make a decision to play in a competition that will allow them to find their place naturally. Also they could have eight netball sides so that all of their girls can get a game instead of telling them that they can't. What a great thing for the club and the competition.
This is all they wanted in the first place. Thank you SFNL, they will enrich your your competition no end as they know first hand what Sandown and Dandy west are going through and their experience will be very beneficial.
Just stop slagging off on things that if you are not involved with the club, you really know nothing about. And stop bleating about them being "cashed up". I don't know but if they are run financially sound then congratulations to them and may your club be viable for a further fifty years.

 

[Tigersman]

So I assume it is the same indictment on Dingley, Bentleigh and Keysborough and others who joined the SFL recently for not being able to grow within the competition they (previously) resided in?

I get that it may affect clubs in the immediate vicinity but we need to wait and see. Players who still aspire to compete at a decent level may jump off HP and join Cranny, Narre, Beacy etc. I also note that the best 3 sides in Div. 3 this year (DE, EH and Hallam) are virtually on top of each other. Didn’t seem to affect them too much. In fact the local rivalry may have helped them grow and prosper.

The issue with the SESL is that the lack of promotion/relegation system means the same handful of clubs dominate every year and there was not a glimmer of hope for HP is they stayed in that league. I reckon the remaining clubs will likely be absorbed by other leagues within a few years anyway.

Introducing start up clubs has more impact that accepting an established club IMO. (And Sandown is nowhere near Hampton Park!)

End hills and Hallam are new clubs along with Lyndhurst. The introduction of those clubs definitely had an effect. The player pool has been stretched. It's no coincidence that all clubs in the area are still in div 3. These clubs are all only just finding their feet and the league drops HP into the mix.
Most of div 3 draw their players from that area. There's no doubt HP coming in is a decision made against the best interest of existing clubs in the area

 

[RockliffisGod]

"And it does not matter if Hampton Park, (insert club as required) your choices include the following
1. Sandown
2.Dandenong West
3. Black Rock
4. South yarra
5. Lyndale
6. Lyndhurst
7. any other struggling metropolitan club
have been around 50 years, in fact its an indictment on that club for not being able to grow with the competition it resides in."

Give us a spell knucklehead.
Why attack a group of volunteers that are trying to provide a game of footy and netball to the youth of their area?
You make out as if they are going to drive their tanks and F1-11's down the freeway and obliterate three suburbs on the way to implementing a scorched earth policy like that naughty little boy Adolf did 75 years ago and steal all of treasure!
Four wins in six years. FOUR.
Also remember that they are a football and netball club. One entity.
At the end of 2016 over fifty players walked because they could not cop repeatedly losing. What a great effort to get two sides up every week in 2017.
Just the same effort that Dandy West and Sandown and Dingly and Endeavour Hills put in each week.
How many of those fifty were accepted by SFL clubs? Derbyshire etc at Mordi et al. More than came into HPFNC!
17 went to one club in the bush alone.
Sometimes organisations have to make big and dramatic changes to ensure that their clubs survive.
If they did not get a footy side up last year, then 50 netballers also don't get to play. I heard that they also sent over 35 girls away because the SEFNL only allow clubs to have 4 senior sides. This is just ridiculous. "no sorry you cant join our club because the comp wont allow it"
I say well done to Hampton Park for keeping sport alive in an ever changing demographic, for having international cuisine nights on a Thursday, for doing what they can as volunteers in their area and for having the gonads to make a decision to play in a competition that will allow them to find their place naturally. Also they could have eight netball sides so that all of their girls can get a game instead of telling them that they can't. What a great thing for the club and the competition.
This is all they wanted in the first place. Thank you SFNL, they will enrich your your competition no end as they know first hand what Sandown and Dandy west are going through and their experience will be very beneficial.
Just stop slagging off on things that if you are not involved with the club, you really know nothing about. And stop bleating about them being "cashed up". I don't know but if they are run financially sound then congratulations to them and may your club be viable for a further fifty years.

Yeah my bad I know nothing about putting time and effort into running a club. I should of kept my mouth shut. I wouldn't know what impact that the introduction of clubs can do to the current SFNL clubs.
I am truly a knucklehead.

Comments like 'we will spend the cap' do not help your arguments.
But you're in div 3 and we look forward to seeing how it affects the other clubs.

 

[Tigersman]

"And it does not matter if Hampton Park, (insert club as required) your choices include the following
1. Sandown
2.Dandenong West
3. Black Rock
4. South yarra
5. Lyndale
6. Lyndhurst
7. any other struggling metropolitan club
have been around 50 years, in fact its an indictment on that club for not being able to grow with the competition it resides in."

Give us a spell knucklehead.
Why attack a group of volunteers that are trying to provide a game of footy and netball to the youth of their area?
You make out as if they are going to drive their tanks and F1-11's down the freeway and obliterate three suburbs on the way to implementing a scorched earth policy like that naughty little boy Adolf did 75 years ago and steal all of treasure!
Four wins in six years. FOUR.
Also remember that they are a football and netball club. One entity.
At the end of 2016 over fifty players walked because they could not cop repeatedly losing. What a great effort to get two sides up every week in 2017.
Just the same effort that Dandy West and Sandown and Dingly and Endeavour Hills put in each week.
How many of those fifty were accepted by SFL clubs? Derbyshire etc at Mordi et al. More than came into HPFNC!
17 went to one club in the bush alone.
Sometimes organisations have to make big and dramatic changes to ensure that their clubs survive.
If they did not get a footy side up last year, then 50 netballers also don't get to play. I heard that they also sent over 35 girls away because the SEFNL only allow clubs to have 4 senior sides. This is just ridiculous. "no sorry you cant join our club because the comp wont allow it"
I say well done to Hampton Park for keeping sport alive in an ever changing demographic, for having international cuisine nights on a Thursday, for doing what they can as volunteers in their area and for having the gonads to make a decision to play in a competition that will allow them to find their place naturally. Also they could have eight netball sides so that all of their girls can get a game instead of telling them that they can't. What a great thing for the club and the competition.
This is all they wanted in the first place. Thank you SFNL, they will enrich your your competition no end as they know first hand what Sandown and Dandy west are going through and their experience will be very beneficial.
Just stop slagging off on things that if you are not involved with the club, you really know nothing about. And stop bleating about them being "cashed up". I don't know but if they are run financially sound then congratulations to them and may your club be viable for a further fifty years.

Your missing the point mate. HPs effort and struggles are not a priority concern for this comp. our clubs should be the priority.SFNL has invested in rapid expansion in the area over recent years which has already stretched all sfnl clubs in the region. The priority for our league should be to support existing clubs to grow. Instead they drop a cashed up competitor on the door step.

Divisional football is coming to SEFNL anyway. HP should have been told to wait and see how that effected their situation.

 

[Bounceback]

"And it does not matter if Hampton Park, (insert club as required) your choices include the following
1. Sandown
2.Dandenong West
3. Black Rock
4. South yarra
5. Lyndale
6. Lyndhurst
7. any other struggling metropolitan club
have been around 50 years, in fact its an indictment on that club for not being able to grow with the competition it resides in."

Give us a spell knucklehead.
Why attack a group of volunteers that are trying to provide a game of footy and netball to the youth of their area?
You make out as if they are going to drive their tanks and F1-11's down the freeway and obliterate three suburbs on the way to implementing a scorched earth policy like that naughty little boy Adolf did 75 years ago and steal all of treasure!
Four wins in six years. FOUR.
Also remember that they are a football and netball club. One entity.
At the end of 2016 over fifty players walked because they could not cop repeatedly losing. What a great effort to get two sides up every week in 2017.
Just the same effort that Dandy West and Sandown and Dingly and Endeavour Hills put in each week.
How many of those fifty were accepted by SFL clubs? Derbyshire etc at Mordi et al. More than came into HPFNC!
17 went to one club in the bush alone.
Sometimes organisations have to make big and dramatic changes to ensure that their clubs survive.
If they did not get a footy side up last year, then 50 netballers also don't get to play. I heard that they also sent over 35 girls away because the SEFNL only allow clubs to have 4 senior sides. This is just ridiculous. "no sorry you cant join our club because the comp wont allow it"
I say well done to Hampton Park for keeping sport alive in an ever changing demographic, for having international cuisine nights on a Thursday, for doing what they can as volunteers in their area and for having the gonads to make a decision to play in a competition that will allow them to find their place naturally. Also they could have eight netball sides so that all of their girls can get a game instead of telling them that they can't. What a great thing for the club and the competition.
This is all they wanted in the first place. Thank you SFNL, they will enrich your your competition no end as they know first hand what Sandown and Dandy west are going through and their experience will be very beneficial.
Just stop slagging off on things that if you are not involved with the club, you really know nothing about. And stop bleating about them being "cashed up". I don't know but if they are run financially sound then congratulations to them and may your club be viable for a further fifty years.

Blah Blah Blah

You are missing the point.

Sandown and Dandenong + all other sides in this area have been HARD WORKING and LOYAL (unlike Hampton Hacks) to the SFNL and for the league, board and officials to walk away from their clear edict "WE ARE MORE INTENT ON ENSURING THE VIABILTY OF OUR CURRENT CLUBS BEFORE WE ALLOW ANY NEW CLUBS IN" is an absolute joke. With no information or survey results tabled I believe a few clubs will vent their thoughts at the Presentation Night and AGM. This has been very poorly handled by the league. It has been a rushed decision with not consultation but more importantly respect to the clubs who are going to be effected. I have a feeling there maybe a coup at the AGM with a new board coming in on this.

 

[Billy Blogs]

How do u suggest the SFL help out the likes of Sandown and Dandy the only possible way would be to inject some cash into them which wont happen, Only way is to create a 4th division which then you will need extra teams maybe this is a start of helping them , Chances are weather HP come in or not next season those 2 sides will more than likely struggle anyway

 

[Bounceback]

How do u suggest the SFL help out the likes of Sandown and Dandy the only possible way would be to inject some cash into them which wont happen, Only way is to create a 4th division which then you will need extra teams maybe this is a start of helping them , Chances are weather HP come in or not next season those 2 sides will more than likely struggle anyway

Well you don't have to be Einstein to realise the first thing you Do Not do is bring in another team into the league and region. Since they have done that then no use telling them what else to do as they don't listen anyway.

 

[Toothless Feral]

Below is from the Pakenham gazette..... see highlighted in Red nuffies..


Hampton Park Football Club is one massive step closer to having a new place to call home next year after the Southern Football Netball League accepted its request to become a member club in 2018.
SFL Chief Executive Officer David Cannizzo informed Hampton Park President Mick O’Brien of the news earlier this week, with the SFL accepting the club into division three of its promotion-relegation structure.
The Redbacks were keen to begin their SFL journey in division two, but hav...e accepted the SFL’s decision. The SFL will now formally lodge a transfer request with AFL South East, the governing body of the South East Football Netball League – the Redbacks current home.
AFLSE will ask the SEFNL if there is any reason to decline the transfer request, which appears unlikely.
O’Brien was thrilled that his club finally had a clear vision for the future.
“We’re pleased that we’ve been accepted by the Southern Football League and into a divisional structure that provides the club with the opportunity to be competitive - and ultimately successful again,” O’Brien said.
“We would have preferred division two, but we accept the umpires’ decision and move forward.”
Hampton Park will only be allowed to recruit a maximum of one player from Southern Football League clubs for next year, while the SFL’s acceptance is based on at least a five-year stay in the competition.

 

[Cato]

Unfortunately for clubs like Dandenong and Sandown, they're closer to these high growth areas like Hampton Park, Clyde etc. However they're only now facing the same challenges that other clubs in the SFNL have faced for years.
Moorabbin, Black Rock, Hampton, Highett, East Brighton, Bentleigh, Cheltenham and Mordialloc are only 5-15 minutes drive from each other, and that list is not including the VAFA sides in the area as well.
It's been a challenge for these teams to retain and attract players for a long time.
Some more than others, but that's the way it is.
It's up to Sandown and Dandenong (and they're not the only clubs) to find a way to continue and grow.
Of course it will be harder with more teams, but growth is inevitable. The league will continue to try and bring in more clubs regardless.

 

[Tigersman]

Unfortunately for clubs like Dandenong and Sandown, they're closer to these high growth areas like Hampton Park, Clyde etc. However they're only now facing the same challenges that other clubs in the SFNL have faced for years.
Moorabbin, Black Rock, Hampton, Highett, East Brighton, Bentleigh, Cheltenham and Mordialloc are only 5-15 minutes drive from each other, and that list is not including the VAFA sides in the area as well.
It's been a challenge for these teams to retain and attract players for a long time.
Some more than others, but that's the way it is.
It's up to Sandown and Dandenong (and they're not the only clubs) to find a way to continue and grow.
Of course it will be harder with more teams, but growth is inevitable. The league will continue to try and bring in more clubs regardless.

This is not a new problem. The demographic of the area is significantly different to bayside suburbs.
Nearly 70% of residents in greater dandenong were not born in Australia.
AFL is not the dominant sport. That's why the clubs all recruit from that south east growth corridor.

Also there's 4 leagues represented in the area, sfl being the weakest in standard and finance. There's something like 14 or 15 senior clubs within about 8km of my club Doveton for example. The game has been developed poorly in that region. No work being done by the SFL or AFL south east to assist clubs in engaging these new Australian communities. The clubs are trying on their own but that is made harder when their existing player base is being weakened by decisions like this HP one.
It's no mystery why all sfl clubs in the area have struggled to get out of div 3.

 

[Bounceback]

This is not a new problem. The demographic of the area is significantly different to bayside suburbs.
Nearly 70% of residents in greater dandenong were not born in Australia.
AFL is not the dominant sport. That's why the clubs all recruit from that south east growth corridor.

Also there's 4 leagues represented in the area, sfl being the weakest in standard and finance. There's something like 14 or 15 senior clubs within about 8km of my club Doveton for example. The game has been developed poorly in that region. No work being done by the SFL or AFL south east to assist clubs in engaging these new Australian communities. The clubs are trying on their own but that is made harder when their existing player base is being weakened by decisions like this HP one.
It's no mystery why all sfl clubs in the area have struggled to get out of div 3.

Absolutely correct Tiger. Great post.

I'm HO didn't do this research, all they had were $$ in their eyes and listen to a squealing club who couldn't cut it in their current league.