Confirmed Shai Bolton, pick 14 & F3 (Rich) traded to Fremantle for picks 10, 11 & 18

[T4P]

I'm guessing he momentarily forgot about his family when Richmond placed a 5 year 6 million dollar contract in front of him.

Seriously though, if you have plans to head home one day, don't sign long term deals.

It's not hard.

Speaking from experience?

 

[richoatthedisco]

We're O'Keeffe and Papley indigenous players living interestate away from family struggling to bring up young children?

What was their motivation to move?

Bolton isn't moving for money. He'd be the highest paid player at Richmond.

Unhappy wife. Unhappy life.

Unhappy footballer. Rarely perform at their best.

He'll still be just as valuable next year when he'll still have two more years to run on his contract than Harley Reid. Maybe we'll deal with the Eagles then.

 

[Obeanie1]

I think all cultures value family support

Which cultures exactly do not ?

Do all cultures value family relationships at the same exact level?

No.

Plenty of material out there to read if you feel like educating yourself.

In Asia there are cultures where a father doesn't bring up his kids. They stay with their blood families and raise their nephews and nieces.

They vist their wives and kids who live elsewhere.

So your "one size fits all" attitude to family relationships and values is flawed. But you already know that.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

He'll still be just as valuable next year when he'll still have two more years to run on his contract than Harley Reid. Maybe we'll deal with the Eagles then.

Realistically, Richmond almost definitely arent getting a better deal than this year. WC arent trading for him any time soon for the same reason it's even an idea to Tigers to trade him. I'm sure Freo having the hand we do is a large reason why him and the manager are asking for a trade for Richmond to exchange him to another club using currency of some sort.

 

[Joao]

Do all cultures value family relationships at the same exact level?

No.

Plenty of material out there to read if you feel like educating yourself.

In Asia there are cultures where a father doesn't bring up his kids. They stay with their blood families and raise their nephews and nieces.

They vist their wives and kids who live elsewhere.

So your "one size fits all" attitude to family relationships and values is flawed. But you already know that.

Spare yourself some pain and read your own signature for inspiration (not the Dune quote).

 

[tigs2010]

Realistically, Richmond almost definitely arent getting a better deal than this year. WC arent trading for him any time soon for the same reason it's even an idea to Tigers to trade him. I'm sure Freo having the hand we do is a large reason why him and the manager are asking for a trade for Richmond to exchange him to another club using currency of some sort.

Depends if you're offering the first 2 I guess.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Depends if you're offering the first 2 I guess.

I'm pretty sure it will get to that despite all the huff and puff that will happen in here and bullshit (that I STILL fall for) on trade radio for two weeks

 

[blaisee]

Do all cultures value family relationships at the same exact level?

No.

Plenty of material out there to read if you feel like educating yourself.

In Asia there are cultures where a father doesn't bring up his kids. They stay with their blood families and raise their nephews and nieces.

They vist their wives and kids who live elsewhere.

So your "one size fits all" attitude to family relationships and values is flawed. But you already know that.

um you are the one making sweeping generalisations and stereotypes about culture mate

The fact that he is indigenous is irrelevant to this discussion

 

[Rich01]

Realistically, Richmond almost definitely arent getting a better deal than this year. WC arent trading for him any time soon for the same reason it's even an idea to Tigers to trade him. I'm sure Freo having the hand we do is a large reason why him and the manager are asking for a trade for Richmond to exchange him to another club using currency of some sort.

Whoever he nominates would have told him they can get a deal done, and if they can’t they probably burn their chance with him from here on in.

Realistically both West Coast and Freo have the collateral, but Freo seem more realistic given West Coast are going full rebuild (bar some Jack Graham shenanigans).

 

[kuhni]

Absolutely not. You don’t move Harley Reid just because he’s homesick unless someone’s offering a king’s ransom. Reid’s a once-in-a-generation talent, and you only consider trading him if the deal is off the charts. Homesickness? That’s something you can manage. Now, compare that to Bolton—he’s a valuable player, no doubt, but his trade value doesn’t come close to Reid’s. If it’s Reid we’re talking about, you hold firm unless it’s an offer you simply can’t refuse. Let’s not confuse a top-tier prospect with a solid player; Reid’s in a league of his own.

I can´t recall anyone being held against their wishes to go home for more than one trade period though.
Typically is resolved through $$$$ (which Shai already gets) or on-field development (not coming next year).

Anyone else know of a player who has been held to a contract for multiple years while unhappy? Kelly was the 1 year, Papley the on-field performances improved.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Whoever he nominates would have told him they can get a deal done, and if they can’t they probably burn their chance with him from here on in.

Realistically both West Coast and Freo have the collateral, but Freo seem more realistic given West Coast are going full rebuild (bar some Jack Graham shenanigans).

Yeah, there's more chance of Pav coaching West Coast next year than Bolton going there. Whatever rubbish is peddled, WC arent interested.

I agree it's this year or never and the only reasons it wont get done is:
1) Richmond refuse to trade him
2) Something bizarre happens with Warner

 

[Rich01]

Yeah, there's more chance of Pav coaching West Coast next year than Bolton going there. Whatever rubbish is peddled, WC arent interested.

I agree it's this year or never and the only reasons it wont get done is:
1) Richmond refuse to trade him
2) Something bizarre happens with Warner

If Shai asks to be traded to Freo, it will be solely up to them to get the deal done.
I don’t see Richmond not trading him if Freo do the right thing and pay up.
And if they decide to abandon trying to pick him up after committing to him if another player becomes available, that would be a big stain on your clubs reputation and trust players would have moving forward. Thats why it happens so rarely.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If Shai asks to be traded to Freo, it will be solely up to them to get the deal done.
I don’t see Richmond not trading him if Freo do the right thing and pay up.
And if they decide to abandon trying to pick him up after committing to him if another player becomes available, that would be a big stain on your clubs reputation and trust players would have moving forward. Thats why it happens so rarely.

I dont think I disagree on any of this. I know my club, if we commit to a trade, we'll give in to what's requested short of it being unreasonable. I would think more than first two picks is unreasonable IMO and that wont happen.

At the same time I'm also not going to say it's "all on Freo", I think it's more grey than that. What if Richmond ask for all 3 1sts or even more. I also think with a contract situation like this, there'll never be a more formal requests than the "would like to if we can", just to cover everyones back. List and players managers will play it cool "we're having discussions / sounds positive blah blah blah" but they'll get it done.

 

[Rich01]

I dont think I disagree on any of this. I know my club, if we commit to a trade, we'll give in to what's requested short of it being unreasonable. I would think more than first two picks is unreasonable IMO and that wont happen.

At the same time I'm also not going to say it's "all on Freo", I think it's more grey than that. What if Richmond ask for all 3 1sts or even more. I also think with a contract situation like this, there'll never be a more formal requests than the "would like to if we can", just to cover everyones back. List and players managers will play it cool "we're having discussions / sounds positive blah blah blah" but they'll get it done.

Yep, I don’t think Richmond would ask for all three firsts. Two firsts would probably do it.

Unless Freo would want Richmond to pay a hefty portion of his salary. Then additional draft concessions have to come with that. I’m not across Freos cap but I wouldn’t imagine with the young list you have there wasn’t a million plus a season you wouldn’t be able to find for Shai. Who knows how well they compensate players though.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yep, I don’t think Richmond would ask for all three firsts. Two firsts would probably do it.

Unless Freo would want Richmond to pay a hefty portion of his salary. Then additional draft concessions have to come with that. I’m not across Freos cap but I wouldn’t imagine with the young list you have there wasn’t a million plus a season you wouldn’t be able to find for Shai. Who knows how well they compensate players though.

Also, you cooked me on the Port finishing position guess but Pies (And Freo, YEY...) saved the draft hand in response haha

 

[Rich01]

Also, you cooked me on the Port finishing position guess but Pies (And Freo, YEY...) saved the draft hand in response haha

I can’t remember exactly what it was, but didn’t think that your lowest pick when it was time to pick a player on draft night with it would be a top ten.

Ashcroft and Lombard probably mean that’s likely to be the case.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I can’t remember exactly what it was, but didn’t think that your lowest pick when it was time to pick a player on draft night with it would be a top ten.

Ashcroft and Lombard probably mean that’s likely to be the case.

Closer to "20 than 10" was the thing. The top pick will be 12 at worst by the looks (Battle, Lombard, Ashcroft) but honestly, given the nature of this draft, I dont think it will phase anyone that much. Seems very unique.

Would be nice for Melbourne to upset the Pies though just to make everyone feel a bit better about themselves =)

 

[Tugga27]

Speaking from experience?

Join the dots fella.

It's not hard.
For most people I guess.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I think all cultures value family support

Which cultures exactly do not ?

Actually Ive worked with tons of indigenous educators and its 100% a cultural belief that family is key to culture according to indigenous elders and I mean more than other cultures. You do cultural knowledge about as well as you do football trading knowledge and to be clear. Respecting family is key to indigenous culture ACCORDING to ELDERS. If anything its your views that are racist.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

That's why I think there is a chance we hang on to Bolton if the price isn't right how many senior players can you lose in one hit? it will be up to Fremantle to satisfy Richmond.

Yeah I agree. What many fremantle supporters are saying is that we would be prepared to trade 2 first rounders and we think that would satisfy Richmond.

 

[4tune8]

Very silly idea for Richmond to refuse a trade request for an indigenous player with a young family wanting to return home.

Really bad look.

And next season he cruises along not happy that he and his partners wishes were ingnored. Player isn't fully committed and the club is paying him top, top dollar.

Everyone loses.

Or Richmond could fleece Freo for plenty and turbo boost its rebuild.

I rate your posting over different forums/threads, what exactly do you think 'fleecing' Freo would look like?

 

[4tune8]

With Dylan Grimes announcing his retirement Richmond won't have Martin and Grimes on their 2025 salary cap. If they loose Bolton, Graham and Baker too they will be struggling to reach the AFL's minimum cap. Add to that Tom Lynch on reportedly over a million in 2025 then Richmond needs to find ways to meet the afl salary minimum or they risks penalties in 2025 and 2026. Its quite a strange situation but the result is they can increase the trade value of both Bolton and Rioli if they agree to pay part of their salaries in 2025 and 2026.

Finally! Someone talking cents!

There's obviously been budgeting from a salary cap perspective and losing 2 players (Rioli & Bolton) releases a bucketload of long term funding. Add in those players that you mentioned with the associated and attached deals on the table (Baker & Graham) combined with the reduction of the allocations for Grimes & Dusty (should they have not retired) then there's massive scope for salary cap relief being attached to all of the proposed trades.

The really interesting thing is how much cap relief is applied and how that value is calculated. Just for arguments sake, let's say Bolton's contract comes with a $400k/year subsidy, given that 2 x 1sts is a likely scenario, what does that $400k give to Freo in cap flexibility? Does it then open the door to satisfy a Chad Warner trade? What's that worth?

 

[kuhni]

Finally! Someone talking cents!

There's obviously been budgeting from a salary cap perspective and losing 2 players (Rioli & Bolton) releases a bucketload of long term funding. Add in those players that you mentioned with the associated and attached deals on the table (Baker & Graham) combined with the reduction of the allocations for Grimes & Dusty (should they have not retired) then there's massive scope for salary cap relief being attached to all of the proposed trades.

The really interesting thing is how much cap relief is applied and how that value is calculated. Just for arguments sake, let's say Bolton's contract comes with a $400k/year subsidy, given that 2 x 1sts is a likely scenario, what does that $400k give to Freo in cap flexibility? Does it then open the door to satisfy a Chad Warner trade? What's that worth?

I think the cap relief would be worth the later second rounder you have (It is our old one and will be around mid 30´s after all the bids are said and done?) not coming back. Warner being a complete hypothetical and us not having a salary cap bust situation with fire sale ala Collingwood.

 

[Tonythetiger]

The big factor will be the $$$ and the value of the picks held by Freo after the free agency circus.

If there isn’t stupid compo handed to St Kilda or similar, and Freo miss finals picks 9 and 10 are likely to only lose 1-2 spots from Ashcroft and possibly Lombard bids. In effect it’s two picks 10-12 available for the Bolton trade. Of course there is also Ports first which will depend on their finals performance.

Bolton is a tough player to value because we’ve been so terrible for 2 years. His 2022 form his best guide for us if we assume he will perform better in a better team (this may not be how potential new homes want to value him). His form in 2023 and 2024 hasn’t been bad but we probably expected him to improve on 2022 as he hits his peak.

With that in mind he would sit as one of a handful of players capable of averaging 20/2, which would put him in the category of two firsts given his age and contract status. This would be without paying a chunk of his contract. Hard to know the trade value of paying part of his contract but I think anything in the $300k+ bracket for 4 years would be heading towards a second round pick (or first round pick upgrade).

There is also the possibility Richmond offer to take some $$$ off Freo’s hands. I have no idea of the particulars but I imagine Will Brodie’s 2025 and 2026 contract has unwanted $$$. We could possibly look at taking this off Freo’s hands to improve the trad

This isn’t an issue for the club.
In fact it’s an opportunity.

Guys like Hopper and Taranto will have their long term contracts restructured to be front loaded, giving them the advantage of utilising their contract $$$ earlier while we meet the cap floor.

We could also look to pay some of Rioli and Boltons contract to play for other clubs for 2-3 years if that’s what Gold Coast and Freo wanted. But there would be draft collateral that would have to come with us doing so.

I’m not a fan of having to meet the cap floor, but it does provide us with options to take advantage of the longer term.

No no no no no!

Totally fine with paying some of Bolton or Rioli's salary to play elsewhere but under no circumstances should we prepay Hopper and Taranto, Hopper especially. Hopper could just as easily play under 15 games every season for the rest of his contract and I would rather negotiate a payout if he has to retire early than pay him 1.5 times his salary for a couple of years so we reach the cap floor. The money 100% is better spent elsewhere. We should be working on a Balta extension where we could be front loaded. I'm sure we can get creative without paying an unreliable player all of his money early.

 

[MadMundy]

Bolton will get done for two first rounders, they can say he warrants more coming back because he's contracted, but I'd say objectively, that's the most fair outcome for both sides.

Richmond get two first rounders to help with their rebuild along with the first pick they already have, Bolton fills a position of need for Fremantle.

No, Fremantle will not give up three first round picks for Bolton, you can wish for it all you like, it's not going to happen.