Autopsy Shameful game V Dees - tell it like it is right here.

[Caracas]

On the plus side, Nick Larkey is one heck of a footballer. If Comben comes good, as I suspect he will, our forward targets are cemented for the next 10 years. McKay looks like he will make it too.


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[glenn2479]

Our biggest problem for 10 years has been player development, blokes just don’t get any better and continue to be played.

How many players who played yesterday wouldn’t get a game at other clubs? Plenty

Our list management is just a disgrace

How many years on a list do guys like Durdin, Garner, McKay get? Just a free pay check for doing nothing. Even Mason Wood who has at least shown something at senior level shouldn’t be on the list.

As for Ben Jacobs, well who even knows what’s happened there.

We aren’t a charity, and yes it’s sad if nice blokes get a lot of injuries but it shouldn’t be at the clubs expense.

Absolutely agree here Leo. We hang on to perpetually injured players way too long. For every Robbie Tarrant success story there are 10 that never make it. I can understand ACL sufferers getting time such as EVW but we’ve held onto Jacobs and Garner for way too long. For all the feel good stuff about Maj you could easily argue that our return on investment has been very very poor. Not only is there financial implications but the list clogging at he expense of other talent has a compounding effect on the whole list.

 

[Themanbun]

It's laughable that many think a change in game plan / new game plan will fix our problems. Our issue, as has been the case for years, is our horrible skills. Kicking in particular.

Clarko got 4 flags with a winning game plan, because he had players with the skills to execute it!
The Eagles won their flag because that final passage of play was executed with exquisite kicking and marking from full back to full forward under the immense pressure of being the final minute in a GF when they were behind by under a goal.
Richmond have won their flags because their players can kick and handball to slice through the opposition.

We are a mile off it. And what gets my goat is that everyone has been able to see it for eons, but it still hasn't been corrected.

I don't disagree, but game plans do affect skills.

Most blokes on an AFL list can pinpoint a pass under no pressure 99/100 times.

Fewer blokes on an AFL list can pinpoint a pass under pressure 99/100 times.

Even fewer blokes on an AFL list can pinpoint a pass under no pressure, but with only pressured options (or no options at all) presenting at them.

Even fewer blokes again can pinpoint a pass, under pressure, with only pressured options (or no options at all) presenting at them.

We definitely don't have the most skilled list. But game plans can and do affect pressure, perceived pressure, and the options presented to a player. There were more than a few times last night where we streamed forward and had NO movement ahead of the ball. That's enough to make most second guess themselves or fluff a kick.

 

[fusion]

Kingy has spoken!

‘Stand up or be given the gold watch’: David King flags tough decisions at North Melbourne

‘You can break that group up’: Nine players North could ‘move on’ or ‘trade’

www.foxsports.com.au

You know what that means..

View attachment 932029

King said “You look at the Kangaroos - Atley, Anderson, Dumont, Hall, Macmillan, McDonald, Pittard, Polec, Turner ... they’re all worthy players of being in a 22 but they’re all very similar. You can break that group up. Some you have to move on, some you might trade. "

as well as possibly getting pick 15-25 for Brown.

I think we got to look at all options - there isn't a player on our list who is "untouchable" for the right trade.

Agree with most the posts here, my list summary is:
Chronically injured and time to cut: Jacobs, Garner
Given good service, but wouldn't get a game anywhere else: McMillan, Atley

Our imported player are generally bad.
Failed recruits: Campbell, Ahern, Tyson, Hall (Pittard and Polec are on warning)
Been OK recruits: Williams, Anderson
Been good recruit: Higgins
Too early to tell: Bonar, Walker

Good players - Cunners, McDonald, Goldy, Tarrant, Brown
Borderline players - Ziebell, Dumont, McKay, Durdin, Turner, Hosie
Youth to keep: Scott, LDU, Jy, Larkey, TT, Taylor, Zurharr
Cut - Wood

So Jacobs, Garner, Campbell, Ahern, Tyson, Hall, Wood all get cut at a minimum. Hard calls on the McMillan, Atley and Ziebell.

If we trade out Brown, pick 15-25 as Kingy says is probably his value, but we aren't going to get good value for that. It's a compromised draft next year, full of academy picks. Pick 15 will blow out to 22 after priority picks to Adelaide, compensation picks etc. I'd rather keep Brown than end up with a pick around 20 with our draft history, and with confusion on how to rank the players due to no junior footy in 2020. If we do trade Brown, it should be used with Melbourne's pick, to upgrade to a pick inside the top 3-5. Otherwise, we'd just recruit another injury prone half back flanker.

It's going to be a 3-4y year rebuild, no more drafting in crap from other clubs. We probably have to be aiming for a priority pick after next season, and continue to be this shit for another season

 

[Le Grille]

It will be the worst exhibition of club administration in more that 50 years if that is the case.

The 2016 rebuild needs to start bearing fruit next year*.

*all things being fair & equal

I think that 2016 rebuild has ended, the topping up in 17 and 18 hampered that.


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[dimo]

Mate you have no idea what it is to be a supporter. I’ve seen worse than this for years on end. The wheel turns. You’ve been around five minutes and know not much.

Hmmmmm does that include Barrett toooo??

 

[Caracas]

In hindsight, losing your best player, your captain + forward targets decimated was never going to end well, particularly for a team that was injecting youth at the same time.


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[shintemaster]

If we trade out Brown, pick 15-25 as Kingy says is probably his value, but we aren't going to get good value for that. It's a compromised draft next year, full of academy picks. Pick 15 will blow out to 22 after priority picks to Adelaide, compensation picks etc. I'd rather keep Brown than end up with a pick around 20 with our draft history, and with confusion on how to rank the players due to no junior footy in 2020. If we do trade Brown, it should be used with Melbourne's pick, to upgrade to a pick inside the top 3-5. Otherwise, we'd just recruit another injury prone half back flanker.

If that was the value offered for a 180 goal in 3 season player we'd be saying no thanks. Better to just hang on to him and plan for him to start winding down in 2-3 years when his replacement is ready (Comben) - Brown isn't exactly young now.

 

[Elroo]

So Jacobs, Garner, Campbell, Ahern, Tyson, Hall, Wood all get cut at a minimum. Hard calls on the McMillan, Atley and Ziebell.

Yep those are the names that should be top of any list of changes at the end of the season. Id also add in Turner as he seems to get a free pass whilst providing almost zero when he plays.

 

[MagicDaw]

I'll tell it like it is: we're tanking.

Think you are on the money HOF!
Lots of players of played out of position. Having a look at others to see what they can do and were to play them. Also having a last look at some before making a final call before delisting them at seasons end.
On top of that we have lots of injuries and by the looks of it some are still playing.

Sure second half yesterday was horrendous, but with 3 games in 8 days and injuries on the day I wasn't surprised.
Only thing I was really disappointed with was skill errors from "senior players " in the first half when we were still in the game!

Would like to see us more competitive, but will focus on little positives for the remainder of the year.

Hopefully we'll be fit and healthy in 2021 with 2 top 10 drafts, some great lower round picks and at least 6 senior player delistings.
I reckon the turnaround could be pretty quick.

Big job for Brady, but I am confident he will bring the goods.

Go Roos!

 

[tazaa]

Did LDU spend a lot of 2nd half on the bench? Was sensational in first half.

No. There was no bench in the 2nd half. He was gassed.

 

[RoundDonut]

The glaring issue that ive seen for weeks is the lack of positioning and smarts in our small forwards. They don't affect enough contests when the ball hits the ground in our forward 50.

Some potential reasons as to why:
1. Young smalls are getting too focused on staying out of the way of the talls. Their runs aren't timed well to hit the front of the pack when it does come in. (Taylor, Mahony, Thomas etc)
2. Players are caught up the ground getting the ball. (Like Hall)
3. Defensive mindset and not getting dangerous (Like Pittard)
4. Playing with about 5 or 6 different key forwards throughout the year, it would be hard to learn the timing of leads etc.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

No. There was no bench in the 2nd half. He was gassed.

I don’t even care that he disappeared.

Putting that ****wit Oliver on his ass whilst winning a ball in dispute is all that matters.

 

[tazaa]

Pulling out players who played well is like complimenting the colour of the carpet while the living room is on fire.

Exactly. Dumot was being lauded for last nights game but he was part of a midfield that put 5 bloody goals to its name. You dont get shit for 5 goals.

 

[Thndr]

The glaring issue that ive seen for weeks is the lack of positioning and smarts in our small forwards. They don't affect enough contests when the ball hits the ground in our forward 50.

Some potential reasons as to why:
1. Young smalls are getting too focused on staying out of the way of the talls. Their runs aren't timed well to hit the front of the pack when it does come in. (Taylor, Mahony, Thomas etc)
2. Players are caught up the ground getting the ball. (Like Hall)
3. Defensive mindset and not getting dangerous (Like Pittard)
4. Playing with about 5 or 6 different key forwards throughout the year, it would be hard to learn the timing of leads etc.

Small forwards ???? dont you mean medium to tall half forward plodders ?

 

[BTRAIN2]

Hard to watch at the moment but all is not lost, and who really cares about this year? Does anyone honestly believe that it has any significance? A year with no legitimate home games, multiple four day breaks, must I go one any further? This year is a ludicrous debacle of AFL desperation to hold a season no matter what.
Drinky whisky and watch the youngsters come through. It's good, no typical pregame anxiety or stress to deal with. What a world

 

[justroyal]

At a guess:

Wood
Williams
Pittard
Ahern
Durdin
Murphy
Hosie
Campbell

Will all go.

Borderline:

Hall
Tyson
Atley
Ziebell (I know)
JMac (I'd keep him over Atley and Pittard on current form)

Decent players but must improve aspects of their game:

Dumont (disposal)
Anderson (see Dumont)
Polec (******* everything! So frustrated with Jared).
Zurharr (kicking for goal, staying invovled in games)
Brown (fairly obvious)

Garner and Jacobs finished with injury.

I rate that.
I will say, dumont just needs to add something to his game that makes him damaging. Can he score goals? Can he impact contests? He needs something else or else its just another slow mid watching the opposition dash off with the ball from a stoppage.

 

[shintemaster]

Hard to watch at the moment but all is not lost, and who really cares about this year? Does anyone honestly believe that it has any significance? A year with no legitimate home games, multiple four day breaks, must I go one any further? This year is a ludicrous debacle of AFL desperation to hold a season no matter what.
Drinky whisky and watch the youngsters come through. It's good, no typical pregame anxiety or stress to deal with. What a world

It is ludicrous granted, I'm okay with that in general because playing games means media rights $$$ and that means we don't all go into buckets of debt when things (hopefully) start returning to normality. But yeah, I doubt I'll be losing too much sleep over this season in the long term. Great for whoever happens to win but in a league built on inequity this season will definitely take the cake.

 

[Horace]

It's laughable that many think a change in game plan / new game plan will fix our problems. Our issue, as has been the case for years, is our horrible skills. Kicking in particular.

Clarko got 4 flags with a winning game plan, because he had players with the skills to execute it!
The Eagles won their flag because that final passage of play was executed with exquisite kicking and marking from full back to full forward under the immense pressure of being the final minute in a GF when they were behind by under a goal.
Richmond have won their flags because their players can kick and handball to slice through the opposition.

We are a mile off it. And what gets my goat is that everyone has been able to see it for eons, but it still hasn't been corrected.

Coupled with the injuries to our most important players, Cunnington in particular, I believe that our poor skill level is the major problem. I'm pretty sure I've said this in previous years, but if I was running the pre-season, it would be almost entirely skills training under match day type pressure. Every session would be match practice. Many will disagree with me on that approach, but, the number of times we win the ball and then butcher it, is unbelievable. On most occasions a game will be won by the team that, executes the skills the best, providing of course they can first get the pill. Players don't necessarily have to have pace across the ground, because good ball movement will beat pace across the ground.

We are presently a team that is somewhat cobbled together, as a result of injuries to key players and I think in the minds of most of the boys, the feeling is we were done and dusted a week or two ago, as far as finals are concerned.

(Mind you, if we hadn't lost Benny C, I would wager we would still be right in the mix to make the 8.)

And just BTW, my main interest this year now is in barracking for which ever team plays *essendon. Can't believe how up and about I was when the GWS beat them last game.

 

[Caracas]

This is worse than then.

It certainly feels worse. However:-

2006
R1 Loss Port Adelaide 41 points
R2 Loss Geelong 69 points
R3 Loss Collingwood 77 points
R7 Loss Adelaide 56 points
R8 Loss Fremantle 35 points
R11 Loss Richmond 35 points
R16 Loss Adelaide 72 points
R17 Loss Geelong 30 points
R20 Loss Melbourne 50 points
R22 Loss Collingwood 68 points

Not pretty. However, maybe, we'll outdo it this year in the end.
P.S. The following year, we reached the Preliminary Final!

 

[Dodecahedron]

Why can’t we delist 15? Who says we can’t? No one‘s done it before so let’s break new ground. Do something bold. Some blokes have had 5 chances and aren’t up to it. Ruthless. Cut to the bone. Take whatever we can in the draft with a record number of draft picks. It cannot be worse than the current list.

 

[Royal Flush]

Do you want us to become modern day Carlton or Melbourne for 20 years?

Yea I haven't really thought about it thoroughly.
Aside from which of our mature players will be moved on.
I think a complete reshuffle of the leadership group and captaincy would be a good start.
And anyone not in the leadership group fair game for trading.



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[Cyber_punk]

It certainly feels worse. However:-

2006
R1 Loss Port Adelaide 41 points
R2 Loss Geelong 69 points
R3 Loss Collingwood 77 points
R7 Loss Adelaide 56 points
R8 Loss Fremantle 35 points
R11 Loss Richmond 35 points
R16 Loss Adelaide 72 points
R17 Loss Geelong 30 points
R20 Loss Melbourne 50 points
R22 Loss Collingwood 68 points

Not pretty. However, maybe, we'll outdo it this year in the end.
P.S. The following year, we reached the Preliminary Final!

We actually beat port in round 1 and Geelong in round 17. But yes, that was a terrible year. 2009 not far behind.

Also with King's comments, Brown is worth higher than pick 15-25 imo. 60+ goals last three years in low scoring time for AFL is not to be sneezed at.

 

[Only Forwards]

It cannot be worse than the current list.

You want to delist 15 players and see what players we can get at picks 90-100?

This would absolute insanity in list building to attempt that.

 

[giantroo]