So much for the soccer hype and it's "massive" threat to AFL

[Matt_TY]

It works both ways, buddy. Check this thread out, just started.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270004

Now if I popped into the soccer board and started a thread about how I thought soccer was just a fad and its popularity would shrivel away in no time, what do you think the reaction would be? And would that reaction be an indication that soccer fans feel insecure about their own sport? Perhaps you'd like to think about that for a little while.

Did you ignore the fact that some of the most emphatic denials in that thread came from me, a Victory supporter?

EDIT: Oh, and I'm of the opinion that Victory fully deserve a stadium larger than 20,000, which is the porposed capacity of the new stadium that is ALREADY being built. For God's sake, it's not as if they're asking for a new MCG to be built! The reaction of some AFL fans in this thread is as if they're demanding an 80,000 seater.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Here here mate. Excellent post.

I was at the Champions League final at the San Siro in 2001.

It was just an amazing day, with an incredible atmosphere both inside the ground & outside on the streets of Milan.Was the most pressure-filled match I have ever been at. In the extra time & penalties you seriously could not breathe, it was that bad.

3 days before that I saw Bayern win the Bundesliga title in the 94th minute. One of the best memories I have ever had in all my sporting life to be honest.

I love sport. I am generally unbiased as to what sports I watch. Hey, the fact that I'm unbiased was the reason I defied local logic and chose to have a look at Aussie Rules all the way back in 1984.

With the Victory now looking like playing most of their home matches at the Telstra Dome, I can only hope that your average person will go along for a look. Hell, they might even start enjoying it.

Does the fact that you attend A League matches make you any less an AFL supporter; hell no. In many respects it may well give you a sense of objectivity about the code you grew up with that you may not have otherwise had. I didn't realise how lame & banal the AFL chanting/singing culture was until I regularly got into the Round Ball Code. Now I'm trying to develop this culture at Swans games; will be bringing TWO drums plus a megaphone to help get everyone into shape tomorrow night!

In Sydney you get hordes of us who follow 3-4 Sporting teams in all the codes. Most of the time people are used to it. (When you have traditionally had the two rugby codes for starters, you are used to having other sport around.)

Why is it that some people in Melbourne appear so goddam frightened of something they were not brought up with. Why do people get so defensive about this like another code of football. You CAN happily follow both! What is the problem with that?

JF

I'm hearin' you, JF. That need for a sense of objectivity cannot be underestimated.

Thats all well and good but you like the soccer. I don't go to a game of Football for the atmosphere, I go because I like the game. I would still go if 100 people were going. In fact I do go to my local league that gets around that.
I think people that say the 'experience was sensastional' and 'the atmosphere was unbelievable' when comparing the two codes are missing the point.
It's not the atmosphere that makes the game - it's the game that makes the game

Fair point, Hawkers. I also like dropping in to see the local matches, just for the sake of seeing a game, although it is also very much a social thing or supporting mates that are playing.

Personally I find it more difficult to separate atmosphere and game - I find it difficult to accept one without the other. Just like the whole AFL experience is more than just the 120 minutes on a weekend - it's talking up the match(es) all week, sticking it to your buddies who's team you beat last weekend, it's the office tipping comp, reading the teams in Friday's paper, and all of the other peripherals that contribute to the event. Even Aussie Rules has the potential to be fairly banal without all of these other factors contibuting to its atmosphere.

Any footy contest (and code) played at its highest level is a treat.

Do you notice that fans of the sport (soccer) rarely rave about the game itself?

Mate, that is just clearly wrong. Soccer fans gasp over aspects of the game such as great goals just as much as we AFL fans do over high marks.

 

[zero]

i was in stuttgart to see the aussie team qualify for the last 16, and it was one of the best sporting experiences in my life. i love soccer, used to watch the glory, i watch the premier league over here and i especially dig champions league.

but i will always love AFL more. for two simple reasons.

1. when a player, in a contested ball situation, can pretend to fall over and win that contest, then the contest becomes a bit of a joke.

2. when a player scores from that contest, and that is one of just a couple of scores in the match, then it becomes ALOT of a joke.

diving is cheating, and soccer games are routinely decided by cheating in this fashion.

 

[RICHO: A GOD AMONGST MEN]

Did you ignore the fact that some of the most emphatic denials in that thread came from me, a Victory supporter?

So, what's your point? The reason I posted that link is to try to explain to people like Grunty and Shedmania the reasons behind threads such as this. If people are going to make wild claims pertaining to the demise of AFL, and we don't happen to agree with it, what are we meant to do? Bite our lips and say nothing? Of course not. We respond with reasons why we think it won't happen. But as soon as we do this, we're accused of feeling threatened and insecure. I'm still scratching my head over how that works.

Back to you, Matty, yes I did notice your responses. I also noticed you kicking the boot into NRL on the Victorians getting behind the Storm????????? thread - eg, how you loathe the "alleged sport" and "couldn't care less if the Storm live or die.". Which is fine, but surely others are entitled to feel the same way about Victory/soccer?

Mate, that is just clearly wrong. Soccer fans gasp over aspects of the game such as great goals just as much as we AFL fans do over high marks.

Yes, but it's not quite the same, is it? Post-game conversation from a soccer game: "Did you see that goal?" "Yeah, it was a beauty." "Yeah, it was." "Yes indeedy." End of conversation.

Honestly, how many highlights are there in a game of soccer? Half a dozen at best?

An American commentator once described the game thus: "Ever notice how much time in soccer is spent kicking a ball upfield to no real purpose, and then having a bunch of players half-assedly walk-jog towards it, just so it can be booted back again? And then the walk-jog again. Much of soccer plays out like a game of golf, except without sand-traps and with legs for clubs and with a great big oversized ******-ball. Like I said: Gay. At least in golf they wear cool pants."

In AFL there's just so much more to talk about and analyse, as evidenced by the plehtora of radio shows and TV programmes devoted to the sport. Can you honestly imagine the soccer equivalent of White Line Fever (an hour a night, five nights a week), not to mention On The Couch, League Teams, Saturday Central, etc, etc.

There is just something about the sport that engenders such interest. I love cricket but about an hour a week of post-match discussion would be plenty. Even my soccer mates profess amazement over how obsessed with the game AFL fans are.

Aussie Rules is such an entrenched part of our lives that I just cannot help but be amused when people like rick james suggest that soccer will one day take over. It'll never happen. And if others confuse my defense of the game as a feeling of being threatened, they're simply deluding themselves.

 

[Lowie01]

An American commentator once described the game thus: "Ever notice how much time in soccer is spent kicking a ball upfield to no real purpose, and then having a bunch of players half-assedly walk-jog towards it, just so it can be booted back again? And then the walk-jog again. Much of soccer plays out like a game of golf, except without sand-traps and with legs for clubs and with a great big oversized ******-ball. Like I said: Gay. At least in golf they wear cool pants."

I will never accept an American's criticism of soccer when they follow some of the most pathetic and boring sports in the world, and ruin the good ones with excessive stoppages.

And soccer doesn't need endless analysis, because it is not confined to 26 weeks a year, and only on weekends. There are too many games to talk endlessly about, we just move on to the next one.

 

[Ronin]

Post-game conversation from a soccer game: "Did you see that goal?" "Yeah, it was a beauty." "Yeah, it was." "Yes indeedy." End of conversation.
Honestly, how many highlights are there in a game of soccer? Half a dozen at best?

After that comment, I can safely say that you know absolutely nothing about the game.

No one is forcing you to watch, and no big deal that the game bores you.

Go and have a read of this simple explanation of some tactics, which doesn't even take account of individual matchups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(soccer)_tactics_and_skills

An American commentator once described the game thus: "Ever notice how much time in soccer is spent kicking a ball upfield to no real purpose, and then having a bunch of players half-assedly walk-jog towards it, just so it can be booted back again?

If someone watched AFL for the first time, they could say the same thing, which is clearly not the case once you understand some of the tactics/matchups.

 

[chiangmaipie]

After that comment, I can safely say that you know absolutely nothing about the game.

No one is forcing you to watch, and no big deal that the game bores you.

Go and have a read of this simple explanation of some tactics, which doesn't even take account of individual matchups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(soccer)_tactics_and_skills




If someone watched AFL for the first time, they could say the same thing, which is clearly not the case once you understand some of the tactics/matchups.

No sport other than AFL can deliver a Chris Judd goal 60 metres out full pace on the run. No other sport can deliver the gasp factor of a high pak mark.

Who could fill a 3 hour highlights DVD Gary Ablett or Pele? I don't mean bum patting or 37 replays of the same goal.

Give me Ablett's goals and marks over Pele anyday.

Yes Pele scored a header goal in the 1970 world cup final.

I saw Ablett rip Collingwood to shreds in 10 minutes of the most outrageous football played by an individual, I ever witnessed in the early 1990's!!

I saw Leon Davis kick a miracle goal from the boundary against Geelong, this year that would put most "highlight" goals from the world cup this year to shame!

Yes I respect "the world game" because it is any always will be the global game. But please don't EVER think it can compete with aussie rules for sheer excitment! I consider myself fortuntate to be living in a country that has produced the most exciting game on earth!

 

[grayham]

Tonight Sydney FC v NZ knights. Crowd 2,600

Hmmmm, interesting.

 

[amnesiac]

i am both a member of the victory and the dogs. it is easy to go to both games because there is minimal overlap in the seasons. 19 pages suggests just how much fear and paranoia there is by some close minded individuals. if anything a-league is more of a threat to cricket in this country than it is afl. the afl has very strong support across the nation, huge commercial tv ratings and a long history. it is growing and will continue to grow for many years to come. afl has nothing to fear from the a-league.

for the record the atmosphere of 40,000 at the dome for the victory was a far louder, more electric atmopshere than 85,000 at the G for the dogs v. pies game.

for those who say that "soccer" is boring, that is their choice, but watching teams like the swans and crows play can be very boring if your not accustomed to the game.

i love both sports and will continue to follow both mutually.

 

[Matt_TY]

Tonight Sydney FC v NZ knights. Crowd 2,600

Hmmmm, interesting.

At New Zealand, a place which has been the laughing stock of the league for its poor crowds, on a Thursday night, in the rain.

We've all known that New Zealand has pathetic support for ages now.

Also, how about you put it as NZ Knights v Sydney and stop trying to pretend it's the 16-17,000 averaging Sydney who attracted that home crowd, huh?



RICHO: Never said you weren't allowed to dislike soccer or say so. I just object to the fact that you seem to think we're all like the idiot who started that "Victory will be the #1 club in Melbourne in five years" thread. We're not.

 

[RICHO: A GOD AMONGST MEN]

Also, how about you put it as NZ Knights v Sydney and stop trying to pretend it's the 16-17,000 averaging Sydney who attracted that home crowd, huh?

Haha, I noticed that too, the sly dog.

RICHO: Never said you weren't allowed to dislike soccer or say so. I just object to the fact that you seem to think we're all like the idiot who started that "Victory will be the #1 club in Melbourne in five years" thread. We're not.

Fair enough.

Still, when all's said and done, it's hard to argue with this:

No sport other than AFL can deliver a Chris Judd goal 60 metres out full pace on the run. No other sport can deliver the gasp factor of a high pak mark.

Who could fill a 3 hour highlights DVD Gary Ablett or Pele? I don't mean bum patting or 37 replays of the same goal.

Give me Ablett's goals and marks over Pele anyday.

Yes Pele scored a header goal in the 1970 world cup final.

I saw Ablett rip Collingwood to shreds in 10 minutes of the most outrageous football played by an individual, I ever witnessed in the early 1990's!!

I saw Leon Davis kick a miracle goal from the boundary against Geelong, this year that would put most "highlight" goals from the world cup this year to shame!

Yes I respect "the world game" because it is any always will be the global game. But please don't EVER think it can compete with aussie rules for sheer excitment! I consider myself fortuntate to be living in a country that has produced the most exciting game on earth!

Spot on mate

 

[Matt_TY]

Meh, t'each their own. Personally, after watching both sports, I like 'em both, for different reasons. AFL is spectacular and skilful and I'll always love it. Soccer is tactical and skilful in different ways* and I love that too.

 

[gaelictiogar]

It works both ways, buddy. Check this thread out, just started.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=270004

Now if I popped into the soccer board and started a thread about how I thought soccer was just a fad and its popularity would shrivel away in no time, what do you think the reaction would be? And would that reaction be an indication that soccer fans feel insecure about their own sport? Perhaps you'd like to think about that for a little while.

The reaction would be a wave of fascistic propaganda about "the World game' and "Real Football" and how "the beautiful game" was the only religion etc etc etc. ad infinitum ad nauseum.

 

[Shedmania]

i am both a member of the victory and the dogs. it is easy to go to both games because there is minimal overlap in the seasons. 19 pages suggests just how much fear and paranoia there is by some close minded individuals. if anything a-league is more of a threat to cricket in this country than it is afl. the afl has very strong support across the nation, huge commercial tv ratings and a long history. it is growing and will continue to grow for many years to come. afl has nothing to fear from the a-league.

for the record the atmosphere of 40,000 at the dome for the victory was a far louder, more electric atmopshere than 85,000 at the G for the dogs v. pies game.

for those who say that "soccer" is boring, that is their choice, but watching teams like the swans and crows play can be very boring if your not accustomed to the game.

i love both sports and will continue to follow both mutually.

Completely agree.

I find no difficulty in continuing to follow both sports.

I was also at both the Victory v Sydney FC game and the Dogs v Pies game and again i agree with you.

And we are now onto our 20th page suggesting more fear and paranoia by some close minded individuals than even you predicted Amnesiac....i wonder how many pages this thread will go for. I'n betting it will exceed 25 pages.

 

[realfootball]

Exactly. Seems to me that spectators at a soccer game get caught up in a sort of collective masturbatory experience rather than the game itself.

Do you notice that fans of the sport rarely rave about the game itself?

With all due respect, you cannot be serious.

 

[cos789]

With all due respect, you cannot be serious.

I like to use the analogy of snooker or lawn bowls .
It is a highly skillful and tactical game .
Can be enthralling to watch .
Doesn't mean anyone is going to get particularly excited about it .
I own one of those Fussball tables .
Great fun and excitement without much skill .
I get the impression that soccer people think just because soccer can be skillful and tactical that automatically it must be appealing to all.
It isn't and yes , with soccer ,I too get the impression that sometimes the events surrounding the game are bigger than the game itsef .


.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

In AFL there's just so much more to talk about and analyse, as evidenced by the plehtora of radio shows and TV programmes devoted to the sport. Can you honestly imagine the soccer equivalent of White Line Fever (an hour a night, five nights a week), not to mention On The Couch, League Teams, Saturday Central, etc, etc.

There is just something about the sport that engenders such interest. I love cricket but about an hour a week of post-match discussion would be plenty. Even my soccer mates profess amazement over how obsessed with the game AFL fans are.

You're leading me down the path of denigrating the footy code I love just to make a point, and I won't do it. Aussie Rules is a magnificent game, and I will reiterate that I will watch a game of AFL in preference to any other footy code.

But you are simply wrong in your claims, and this misperception is borne purely out of naivety. For starters, the BBC run a 5-hour program on Saturday afternoons called "Final Score", which cannot show any clips (SKY have the UK rights) so it's just straight out analysis of the games. Every single contest is covered, and each goal, yellow card, great save, great tackle, great through ball etc is discussed at length.

SKY itself have a stack of match reviews and previews all week, Bravo do the Series A (Italian league) comprehensively, and when the World Cup was on RTE television here had about eight hours a day of coverage, of which less than four was actually game play. They all have their colorful personalities and Rex Hunts or Sam Newman equivalents (Eamon Dunphy would fit into AFL coverage very nicely), and all cater very well to those of us that can't get enough of their footy.

Soccer is saturated through European television (sheesh, you should have been in Italy in the leadup to the World Cup, you could watch football analysis 24 hours a day!). In Ireland, there are a plethora of shows previewing and reviewing GAA - football and hurling.

 

[westdog54]

And they ask for a bigger stadium to be built .
That's what gets up everybody's nose .
It's taken nearly 150 years for Australian football fans to get a great comfortable stadium from which they can patronise their sport and yet the soccer fraternity want instant success .It took an Olympics games to get Sydney a decent stadium and even then it wasn't designed with Australian Football in mind . SA football had to build their own . And WA is paying off theirs .It's got little to do with insecurity but alot to do with building your case .

three problems here:

1) The new stadium being built is a dual purpose stadium, built for rugby and Soccer
2) The new stadium's capacity will have a capacity of a little over 20,000, hardly a world-class capacity
3) The crowds that Victory, and to a certain extent the Storm, as well as the growing popularity of Soccer and both forms of rugby, justify the need for a stadium, not just for tomorrow and the next day but for growth over the next decade

 

[cos789]

1) The new stadium being built is a dual purpose stadium, built for rugby and Soccer

What is your point .
AFL stadiums are good for AR and cricket and any other code .

2) The new stadium's capacity will have a capacity of a little over 20,000, hardly a world-class capacity

Up until now 20k has been more than adequate .

3) The crowds that Victory, and to a certain extent the Storm, as well as the growing popularity of Soccer and both forms of rugby, justify the need for a stadium, not just for tomorrow and the next day but for growth over the next decade

As I said , no history yet . give it time .
Perth just finished it's 20k venue .
Glory currently playing to sub 8k crowds and Force don't want to know about MES even though that was half the reason it was built .
Total waste of taxpayers money .
If soccer and RU are so up and coming then let them use their own monies like most AR stadiums had to depend on .

.