Prediction St.Kilda Best 22

[seasonedsainter]

2. How did his replacement go in the final?

That final was decided in the middle of the ground. Howard, Cordy or Silvagni himself in his prime playing back would have changed nothing. Take your head out of the sand. Howard got injured and never made it back into the team.

You mean like the selectors do after they've watched every training session, monitored every piece of data and watched every game.

Yep. And they decided not to pick him when fit.

I'm sick of talking about Howard with his group of merry men on here. I've nothing against the bloke whatsoever, I'm an objective St Kilda supporter who thinks if we can't move past him, something is going wrong in our development. So sue me.

We need smart defenders (yes, this includes the full back) who can use the ball, read the play, work cohesively and not consistently brain fade. Howard ain't that.

Perhaps we should start another thread. I'm willing to put this opinion on the line.

 

[seasonedsainter]

They said they made a mistake not picking him, right before they tried to trade him

 

[pebblesofsand]

That final was decided in the middle of the ground. Howard, Cordy or Silvagni himself in his prime playing back would have changed nothing. Take your head out of the sand. Howard got injured and never made it back into the team.



Yep. And they decided not to pick him when fit.

I'm sick of talking about Howard with his group of merry men on here. I've nothing against the bloke whatsoever, I'm an objective St Kilda supporter who thinks if we can't move past him, something is going wrong in our development. So sue me.

We need smart defenders (yes, this includes the full back) who can use the ball, read the play, work cohesively and not consistently brain fade. Howard ain't that.

Perhaps we should start another thread. I'm willing to put this opinion on the line.

The thing that amazes me is how people are critical of faults in one player and then blithely neglect to see that 99% of all players have faults.

When you are watching Dougal closely next game, take some time to watch Josh Battle (who does a very good job) but still regularly manages to blindly thump the ball out of defence, have a look at Jimmy Webster who is recognised as a very good kick but still manages to miss so many many many targets.

Have a look at Rowan Marshall who very skillfully manages to win the ball at a ruck contest but then completely wastes it EVERY F***ING TIME by blindly throwing it on his boot rather than trying to handball to a player in a better position .

Or Tim Membrey and his slowness of ball movement

Or Dan Butler with his brain working faster than his football skills

Or Brad Crouch and his poor kicking.

Or Max King and his sulks

And the list goes on an on except for maybe Cal Wilkie who is in the elite 1% of faultless players. But hey the others have got faults - get rid of them.

PS When did the club or Dougal's management actually come out and say he was tradeable? Don't believe everything the media say in their desperate attempts to find a squillion hours of "content" during trade period.

PPS Anyhow - Dougal will be our FB in Round 1 of 24

 

[saintmike65]

I’m not a Dougal fan but that’s three kids with zero AFL games and a second year forward being tried down back for the first time. Can I have a bit of what you’re having, please?

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the square…a bit of lateral thinking is a good thing!!

 

[beside the seaside]

That final was decided in the middle of the ground. Howard, Cordy or Silvagni himself in his prime playing back would have changed nothing. Take your head out of the sand. Howard got injured and never made it back into the team.



Yep. And they decided not to pick him when fit.

I'm sick of talking about Howard with his group of merry men on here. I've nothing against the bloke whatsoever, I'm an objective St Kilda supporter who thinks if we can't move past him, something is going wrong in our development. So sue me.

We need smart defenders (yes, this includes the full back) who can use the ball, read the play, work cohesively and not consistently brain fade. Howard ain't that.

Perhaps we should start another thread. I'm willing to put this opinion on the line.

It's all good not to rate him of course but the chances of one of the guys you listed replacing him are miniscule. Cordy is the one that might replace him but he was exposed in the final and if we'd won he probably would have been dropped the following week. We just don't have an obvious best 22 replacement for Howard at this stage.

 

[Veer Right]

Lots of our supporters believe the sun shines out of every players ass and can do no wrong.

So on that, I personally, am amazed that anyone that follows this club supports Howard but i get it when thinking on the above.

If the Howard replacement means we take a hit in defence while said player is bought up to speed that's fine by me as the long term bigger picture is what's important.

Phillipou for example should have been "managed" on output at various stages last year but they persisted and i get it.

 

[Tyrian Lonestar]

Lots of our supporters believe the sun shines out of every players ass and can do no wrong.

So on that, I personally, am amazed that anyone that follows this club supports Howard but i get it when thinking on the above.

If the Howard replacement means we take a hit in defence while said player is bought up to speed that's fine by me as the long term bigger picture is what's important.

Phillipou for example should have "managed" on output at various stages last year but they persisted and i get it.

Yep, hanging onto something isn't working has taken many businesses backwards....

Be that system, processes, products, cost structures and yes personnel.

If it means we blood Hammer / Van Es & Keeler I'm fine with that.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, hanging onto something isn't working has taken many businesses backwards....

Be that system, processes, products, cost structures and yes personnel.

If it means we blood Hammer / Van Es & Keeler I'm fine with that.

I'm no Howard fan but rate him above Cordy and recognise how hard it is to get tall backs. He's the best option we have and isn't as bad as people make out. He's probably our weakest link down back but far from a liability despite some short comings.

 

[George]

I'm no Howard fan but rate him above Cordy and recognise how hard it is to get tall backs. He's the best option we have and isn't as bad as people make out. He's probably our weakest link down back but far from a liability despite some short comings.

Fan of the ballet, are we?? Deary me

 

[magd2992]

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the square…a bit of lateral thinking is a good thing!!

I see this as a triumph of optimism over reality. It seems we all agree that Dougal is average. I just can’t see a better option in the short term.

 

[saintmike65]

I see this as a triumph of optimism over reality. It seems we all agree that Dougal is average. I just can’t see a better option in the short term.

It’s long overdue we develop a key defender…last one we had of any quality was Sam Fisher, who was originally a forward.
Caminiti has the tools to be moulded into a key defender…height, athleticism, aggression and a strong one grab mark.

 

[stfan]

It’s long overdue we develop a key defender…last one we had of any quality was Sam Fisher, who was originally a forward.

Though while Fisher did play at times as a key defender and was good at it, he really shone as a running and attacking third back.

He was elite that is for sure.

 

[stfan]

I see this as a triumph of optimism over reality. It seems we all agree that Dougal is average. I just can’t see a better option in the short term.

Even the best teams will have some "average" players or GOPs in them. Just look at the Grand Final Winners each year.

If Dougal is our worst defender in 2024 then we are going ok down back.

With Sinclair, Nasiah, Wilkie, Battle, Webster, Stocker and Bonner as well as Howard we look to have a very good overall mix of defenders. Howard has importance due to his height and spoiling ability when we play teams with the bigger key forwards.


For 2025 on Van Ess, Caminiti, Keeler may become regular viable options for the tall key defender role.

Shoenamaker possibly being groomed for the attacking third tall role down back, but he could also possibly become another key defensive option.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Even the best teams will have some "average" players or GOPs in them. Just look at the Grand Final Winners each year.

If Dougal is our worst defender in 2024 then we are going ok down back.

With Sinclair, Nasiah, Wilkie, Battle, Webster, Stocker and Bonner as well as Howard we look to have a very good overall mix of defenders. Howard has importance due to his height and spoiling ability when we play teams with the bigger key forwards.


For 2025 on Van Ess, Caminiti, Keeler may become regular viable options for the tall key defender role.

Shoenamaker possibly being groomed for the attacking third tall role down back, but he could also possibly become another key defensive option.

Incredible some of the junk that the Pies had playing

 

[stfan]

I think our Best 22 is building nicely for long-term success.


However I suspect that for us to have an exceptional 2024 that we will need in particular for both King and Dow to have very good seasons.

Most of our other positions we have good options for the remaining 22. Some are young still and will just get better and better.

But our midfield desperately needs a mid who can win ball and then burst away with it. As we all know, our midfield options in recent seasons were a bit vanilla, individually some good talent, but as a group bland and one paced. While Jones had the speed, he did not dish the ball off well.

And our forward line needs King to be the of our forward line. A marking beast who kicks bags of goals, and who leads as well. King on fire then will allow all the rest of our forward options to work better.

That is if our players upfield also deliver the ball better.

 

[jwint43]

Dougal is a weird one - He does alot of things right but when he's 1 on 1 I have absolutely zero confidence in him.

I also think he tries to bite off more than he can chew, which is why his howlers look particularly bad. But he's still best 22 for me.

 

[saintmike65]

Dougal is a weird one - He does alot of things right but when he's 1 on 1 I have absolutely zero confidence in him.

I also think he tries to bite off more than he can chew, which is why his howlers look particularly bad. But he's still best 22 for me.

Very much looking forward to when he’s NOT best 22…hopefully sooner rather than later!!

 

[SteeleSaints]

Very much looking forward to when he’s NOT best 22…hopefully sooner rather than later!!

Agree at his age I doubt he is going to improve and also very much doubt we win a flag relying on Dougal at full back. In the current game being an elite defender is not just about restricting your opponent, they need to be a strong marking intercept option, be able to peel off and help out their team mates and become part of an attacking chain when required. Dougal is solely a stopping defender, just adequate because we have no one else, but the sooner we replace him with an upgrade the better.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Dougal is a weird one - He does alot of things right but when he's 1 on 1 I have absolutely zero confidence in him.

I also think he tries to bite off more than he can chew, which is why his howlers look particularly bad. But he's still best 22 for me.

Big strong body that competes well but lacks decision making and overestimates his evasion skills.

 

[beside the seaside]

Agree at his age I doubt he is going to improve and also very much doubt we win a flag relying on Dougal at full back. In the current game being an elite defender is not just about restricting your opponent, they need to be a strong marking intercept option, be able to peel off and help out their team mates and become part of an attacking chain when required. Dougal is solely a stopping defender, just adequate because we have no one else, but the sooner we replace him with an upgrade the better.

He's only 27 so should have some good years ahead. When he first came to the club he was actually great for us but seemed to try to do too much as time went on. Our best bet is to get him back playing at his best in which case he is a good defender who can take intercept marks, set up play and beat an opponent.

If someone can replace him then that would be awesome but the chances of a guy like Van Es suddenly becoming better than him or Keeler or Caminiti for that matter are incredibly unlikely. For every forward that makes it as a back there are stacks more where the experiment is abandoned. At this stage Van Es could easily never play a game and get delisted. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen but don't think he's near the first team at this stage. Would love to be wrong about that.

 

[saintmike65]

Big strong body that competes well but lacks decision making and overestimates his evasion skills.

Unfortunately he doesn’t have a strong body & is exposed in one on one contests…his mate Wilkie has to cover his a.s & when he’s not within visinity of the contest, the finger pointing and blame game starts…gives me the Tom **** to be honest!!

 

[pebblesofsand]

Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

26

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

(on 6 years and $800K+) or Esava for an early 2nd rounder or keeping Dougal.

Honestly I can't see why people are complaining.

 

[The Jack]

Certainly is the new whipping boy for some.

 

[Premium]

The best effort by a key forward against us last year when Dougal played was Charlie Curnow (4 goals). Next best was Eric Hipwood (3 goals) - and Dougal didn't play on either of those players. So he must be doing something right.

As for trade bait - as I've said year upon year - every player is tradeable - I'd have traded Nick Reiwoldt in his prime if I thought it would get us a premiership.

And last year the going market rate for a serviceable FB last was $800k a year and a 6 year contract, so if someone came to us with an offer like that Dougal would be gone - simply because that sort of contract has to translate into a Top 10 trade otherwise the other club is just talking shite.

Most important stat - if not injured, Dougal has been selected 74 out of a possible 75 games since he arrived at the club. Screams starting 22 rather than close to a liability.

Agree with everything here

 

[saintmike65]

Agree with everything here

Good to see Dougal has some fans…hope the boss is one of them or he’s in trouble!