Movie Star Wars III

[marcuz]

It was a movie, and a very good one at that, but I think you people are overanalysing it just a little bit.

120% of the emperor's strength? WTF Who the hell cares?

Obviously George Lucas as they are his words.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Gotta love Star Wars nerds, you guys know this stuff back to front don't ya?

No offense intended, each to his own, just proves what great idea Lucas had if people are so taken by it.

Oh and anyone on Bigfooty who's ever mentioned hardball gets and inside 50s has no right to knock people over analysing a movie.

 

[Silvagnis]

Jedi's are pussies.

 

[Thrawn]

No one has addressed this brilliant point yet.

That's because Dan doesn't want to admit otherwise.

Yes, I've seen that footage and from that it further strengthens the claim that Palpatine was faking it. That amongst other things.

 

[OllieGrieve]

 

[Dan26]

Pred, if you're going to make one-sentence responses, you might as well just admit that I am right. Read everything I have written and you know it is correct and makes 100% sense.


Thrawn,

If Palpatine knew that Anakin would side with him, why would Palpatine deliberately out-position himself? If Anakin needs Palpatine alive to save his wife, why would Palpatine (who knows this) risk his own life unless he was legitimately beaten ?

Palpatine's so-called "besting" of Windu earlier in the fight is nothing more than dramtatc movie-making. Plaptine was at full stretch, anyway. You cna't base an entire argument on that. Palpatine's facial expressions are not one of lazyness. He shows signs of determination, effort, and even cruelty. He is direct and forceful, until he is at a beaten life-threatening disadvantage, where he puts on an act out of desperation. They key point of the scene is Anakin's choice to side with Palaptine.

What you don't understand Thrawn is:

1.) Anakin already knew Palpatine was a Sith before entering the room.

2.) Anakin would have been expecting Palpatine to be defending himself with Sith powers. There was no need for Palpatine to deliberately lose.

3.) Most importantly, you seem unaware that Anakin, in the scene beforehand, had already made up his mind that he needed Palpatine alive (to save his wife.) Palpatine didn't need to act all weak and cowardly for Anakin to save him. Anakin was going to do that anyway. It was all for his wife. it had NOTHING to do with the Jedi being "traitors". Nothing.

Palpatine's act was one of desperation. Palpy knew he was in trouble and he was desperate. He put on an act out of depseration, because he was a beaten man. Windu had him beat, and there is no reason to suggest Palpy had anything to gain by deliberately losing? What did he have to gain Thrawn, for God's sake???

I'm amazed that a huge Star Wars fan such as yourself would be gullible and naive enough to think Palpatine would deliberatly lose, and I am annoyed that you are unaware that Anakin's motivation was for his wife and Palpatine DIDN'T NEED to deliberately out-position himself for Anakin to make this choice. Did you not watch the scenes beforehand? Therefore, when Palpy was down, he was legitimately beaten by Mace. You know this. You know it deep down, and surely your personal pride can admit it.

Regarding the treason issue, the Jedi committed treason as soon as they made their move against Palpatine. The fight that ensued was irrelevant. Anakin knew they were going to remove Palpatine once he revealed his identity to Mace, so if it was so important to him, he would have said something at that time rather than asking to go. His main fear is that Palpatine will die, not that the Jedi will commit treason. Once he joins Palpatine he uses the treason angle as justification because its true, although it isn't his primary motivation. That's why there was no reason for Palpatine to deliberatley lose. Palptine was legitimately beaten. Palpy gains nothing be deliberatley losing to Mace. If Palpatine could have killed Mace straight away, he would have done so. Anakin would have still sided with Palpatine, because he needed Palpatine (in his mind) to save his wife.

You can't possibly argue against anything I have written here.




"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor." - George Lucas

 

[ClintEastwood]

Pred, if you're going to make one-sentence responses, you might as well just admit that I am right. Read everything I have written and you know it is correct and makes 100% sense.

Refusing to continue arguing until hell freezes over, with one such as you, is admitting nothing of the kind. I said before, and I say again, we have already covered all those points.

And don't talk to me about one sentence responses, d*ckhead. I wrote an essay in response before, and you did not respond at all for several days, until goaded, at which point you proceeded to trot out exactly the same flawed points that had already been rebutted.

You are wrong, and what's worse, you are a fool.

Now say what you like, but THIS IS MY LAST REPLY TO YOU, oh ye of the closed mind.

 

[Dan26]

Pred, please.

Insults achieve nothing. It just shows that my obviously correct viewpoint gets under your skin. Mace had Palpatine beaten, and all the evidence points to this. You know this. You are aware, I assume, that Anakin already knew Palpatine was a Sith before entering the room. You are aware, I presume, that Anakin had made the decision to side with Palpatine the scene beforehand, and who was "winning" the fight when Anakin entered would not affect Anakin's choice.

Nothing annoys me more than personal pride stopping a person from accepting the obvious. Like it's "tough" to stick up for your view, even though all the evidence points against it. It's not tough at all. No one is going to respect you any less for accepting the obvious, mate! Hell, I'll respect you even more for accepting the reality. The last post I wrote before this one sums it all up perfectly, and if you read it again (I advise it) you will see there is nothing to argue.

 

[Altum Volantes]

You seem like a decent bloke who likes a good laugh Dan.

 

[Dan26]

You seem like a decent bloke who likes a good laugh Dan.

What makes me laugh are those who think the Emperor plans his farts 8 years in advance.

 

[Fwoy]

What makes me laugh are those who think the Emperor plans his farts 8 years in advance.

Hahaha..."I sense a disturbance in the force".

 

[TheGnu]

Saw it, loved it...

A colleague was trying to get all analytical on me, looking for the politics of it all, but in the end, it's as much as much about a bloke getting medieval on the world for his woman as it is GWB starting to go bad when he found G O D.

Excellent way to kill two hours...

 

[Rocket23]

Saw it loved it saw it again loved it.

To Pred, Thrawn & in particularly Dan, enjoy it for what YOU think it is. I think you both raise interesting points and next time I watch it I will look for signs of both your arguments.

I must admit what did annoy me was the way in which the Jedi Council members were disposed of so easily. I have read that Mace & Yoda were two of the greatest Jedi ever but everyon else seemed to be pussies.

Thrawn, When I first came on big footy I noticed your name and thought, Nice. Like someone else mentioned I got to the NJO books and just couldn't be bothered readin them. I think the last series I finished was the X-Wing series which I thought was pretty cool. Is it worth starting up again?

 

[weevil]

You seem like a decent bloke who likes a good laugh Dan.

Actually Dan seems like a control freak who can’t tolerate it if anyone else doesn’t agree with him.

Dan has a history of not being able to let go. Just tells everyone else his opinion is fact over and over again. The longer it goes on the more fantastic his justifications become.

 

[GFC MAD!]

Just a question about the next film - A NEW HOPE [Dan26 may be able to answer me this]

C3PO and R2-D2 are bought by Luke and Owen back on Tatoonie. Wouldn't Owen and that recognise C3PO and R2D2 from when they were there in Attack Of The Clones?

I know C3PO did not have his golden exterior on then and had his memory wiped in revenge of the sith, but surly Owen would have remembered his voice and that? And also R2D2 would have remembered, because he showed himself for a bit there as well in Attack Of The Clones. They would have remembered him wouldn't they?

 

[coasting]

My 2 cents on the Mace v Sideous fight...

Mace Windu was supposedly the greatest light sabre fighter ever because he used an extreme fighting style called vapaad, which used both the light side and the dark side, which is why he has a purple sabre. This doesn't mean he was as strong in the force as Sideous but it does mean he was much better in light sabre combat. Mace beat him fair and square in the light sabre fight but that did not mean the battle was over. If Sideous could sense that Anakin was in trouble on another planet then he could also sense that Anakin was on his way to his chamber. As someone else said, Sideous was the master manipulator but not the master fighter and so while he knew he would be defeated by Mace in a light sabre duel he also knew Anakin would eventually arrive and save the day.

 

[weevil]

Just a question about the next film - A NEW HOPE [Dan26 may be able to answer me this]

C3PO and R2-D2 are bought by Luke and Owen back on Tatoonie. Wouldn't Owen and that recognise C3PO and R2D2 from when they were there in Attack Of The Clones?

I know C3PO did not have his golden exterior on then and had his memory wiped in revenge of the sith, but surly Owen would have remembered his voice and that? And also R2D2 would have remembered, because he showed himself for a bit there as well in Attack Of The Clones. They would have remembered him wouldn't they?

R2 was only ever at the Lars homestead very, very briefly in AOTC, and over twenty years had elapsed by the time of ANH. And R2 always plays his cards very close to his chest!

3PO is certainly a little more complicated. There is a theory that Anakin built 3PO from what was basically a prefabricated android kit. So that his voice and mannerisms could be very much like many other droids of his type.

3PO and Owen Lars only exchange a couple of very brief sentences in ANH and 3PO never actually tells Owen his name. Owen also seems very disinterested at the time and may not really have been paying too much attention.

 

[Funkalicous]

Pred, please.

Insults achieve nothing. It just shows that my obviously correct viewpoint gets under your skin. Mace had Palpatine beaten, and all the evidence points to this. You know this. You are aware, I assume, that Anakin already knew Palpatine was a Sith before entering the room. You are aware, I presume, that Anakin had made the decision to side with Palpatine the scene beforehand, and who was "winning" the fight when Anakin entered would not affect Anakin's choice.

Nothing annoys me more than personal pride stopping a person from accepting the obvious. Like it's "tough" to stick up for your view, even though all the evidence points against it. It's not tough at all. No one is going to respect you any less for accepting the obvious, mate! Hell, I'll respect you even more for accepting the reality. The last post I wrote before this one sums it all up perfectly, and if you read it again (I advise it) you will see there is nothing to argue.

There's not much evidence supporting the 'Sidious tanked' theory. It was obvious to me that Skywalker was gonna crack eventually. Sidious actually made a bit of a mistake revieling himself too early and it almost cost him his life. Besides, Sidious was more force-power focused. He doesn't have to be the best sword fighter just because he's the Sith Lord. He took over the Republic with barely a swing of his saber. And if things went exactly as planned, he wouldn't have needed it at all.

Such a silly theory comes directly from 'fanboyism'. Movies aren't suspose to raise debate over such issues. If they wanted that, they would have thrown some weight behind it. What's the philosophical term? "The simplest explaination is usually the right one".

 

[almost_04]

not a fan of star wars but i really enjoyed it! the final fight scene was absolutely fantastic! well done george..

 

[Moti]

** When Mace and the Jedi entered Sidous's chamber, he said :

"you are here sooner than I expected"

To me this means that while he is not shocked by the Jedi coming, he is shocked that Anakin took so little time in telling them the truth. Judging from the way the dialogue was spoken and his body language, there is no doubt that at that point, the seeds of doubt have probably been sown.

It is therefore not a stretch to believe that, now questioning Anakin's next move, Palpatine was fighting for his life as he could not be 100% sure of Anakin's invlovement. Therefore, the Saber loss was most probably the result of Mace's skill, not a stunt. Although once Anakin entered, the puppet master kicked into high gear.

 

[Thrawn]

Dan, don't patronize me with that rubbish. Most of those points have already been covered on this thread, so I see no need to repeat myself. I guess we are at a stalemate here, because until there is official word about it then I guess neither of us can claim our version of events are correct.

Neither are. Both have valid points, both are plausable. And don't tell me what I do or don't understand about the movies and the events in it Dan - I've seen the movie three times and based from what I have seen I will not back away from my stance nor let some fool claim I'm confused. Are you trying to make it look like that you "know it all" and I am one who has no idea what I am talking about? What crap Dan, you're better than that.

Anyone can read the thread for themsevles and make a decisive conclusion. I don't care.

There's not much evidence supporting the 'Sidious tanked' theory.

I beg to differ. Take a closer look at this thread in particular (and the movie).

Movies aren't suspose to raise debate over such issues.

It's call "suspension of disbelief". True, they're not supposed to, but when dealing with a particular situation people tend to over analyse it.

You can't possibly argue against anything I have written here.

Most of those points have been addressed already in this thread, so don't get all arrogant and claim you're right and someone with a different version of events isn't (despite actually using footage from the film to back up their points).

I am sure more will come of this if anyone actually bothers to ask Lucas in an interview. Then you can claim you're right or wrong. But at the moment, the "tanking" side is just as plausable as your stance based on events in the film that have already been used as evidence.

And it also seems that the majority on this thread, and perhaps 50% of the people on SW boards share similar views. Are we all naive and gulliable Dan? Are we all wrong, and you right? Give me a friggin' break.

 

[JohnnoCairns]

Loved the movie. My favorite of the six.

On the discussion of Mace Windu and palpatine... I dont think Palpatine was faking being beaten by Windu. Yes he was acting, but i think Windu would have killed Palpatine if Anakin hadnt interfered. Because if you recall, in AOTC, Anakin told padme that he thought Obi-Wan was as powerful as Master Windu and as wise as Master Yoda.

Maybe Windu was better then Yoda at the saber, that is why yoda couldnt beat Palpatine.

 

[Munga]

The DVD will be better with all the cut out scenes!

 

[weevil]

Loved the movie. My favorite of the six.

On the discussion of Mace Windu and palpatine... I dont think Palpatine was faking being beaten by Windu. Yes he was acting, but i think Windu would have killed Palpatine if Anakin hadnt interfered. Because if you recall, in AOTC, Anakin told padme that he thought Obi-Wan was as powerful as Master Windu and as wise as Master Yoda.

Maybe Windu was better then Yoda at the saber, that is why yoda couldnt beat Palpatine.

There are loads of inconsistencies in the script(s):

Obi-Wan to Anakin “If you practiced your saber techniques as much as your wit, you'd rival Master Yoda”

 

[Funkalicous]

No Anakin was the strongest and then ceased to be after he had his arse handed to him by Obi-Wan. He was 120% of palpatines strength during the obi-wan fight and 80% of palpatines strength after his injuries.

The only semi-piece of evidence that Anakin was stronger than Sidious is when he claimed himself to be better than him. Although you're forgetting, Anakin thought he was better than everyone.

Arrogance is an inward feeling and typically associated with the dark side. Arrogance is what got Anakin beating. Arrogance is what killed Darth Mual. And IMO arrogance is what killed Dooku.

If I had to rate the Jedi/sith for saber fighting alone, it would look like this:

Mace Windu
Darth Sidious
Yoda
Anakin Skywalker
(slightly better than)
Count Dooku
Darth Mual
Obi-won
Qui-Gon