Bumped Steven Motlop (merged roast threads)

[Grimoz]

Well der...

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-22/cats-motlop-in-no-rush-to-start-contract-talks

 

[CatRiot]

Anyone have the compo calculation for our draft pick if we lost Motlop to FA on a 500k or 650k deal over 2-3 years?

*Posted this in the Opposition Camp thread as well....

 

[Liger]

 

[HellasOle]

Anyone have the compo calculation for our draft pick if we lost Motlop to FA on a 500k or 650k deal over 2-3 years?

*Posted this in the Opposition Camp thread as well....

We will get an end of first round pick maybe 18

 

[thegerman]

I was responding to a post that said he goes missing when the going gets tough. When the game was on the line last night, i.e. the last quarter, he was one of our best.

You need me to explain every post on this board for you?

The game was actually on the line in the first half. Where he was virtually a witches hat. He had friends though, but they aren't on 500k+

 

[PhatBoy]

The game was actually on the line in the first half. Where he was virtually a witches hat. He had friends though, but they aren't on 500k+

Until the game reaches a point where it can't be salvaged, it is always on the line.

You can't just say so-and-so didn't perform when it mattered because for SOME of the time when it mattered, he was shit.

In a cricket match, a batsman making a fighting century in the second innings after his first innings duck played a role in them trailing doesn't suddenly get slagged off because 'if he'd played like this in the first innings he wouldn't need to make runs in the second.' He rightly gets criticised initially and praised secondarily.

 

[thegerman]

Until the game reaches a point where it can't be salvaged, it is always on the line.

You can't just say so-and-so didn't perform when it mattered because for SOME of the time when it mattered, he was shit.

In a cricket match, a batsman making a fighting century in the second innings after his first innings duck played a role in them trailing doesn't suddenly get slagged off because 'if he'd played like this in the first innings he wouldn't need to make runs in the second.' He rightly gets criticised initially and praised secondarily.

Yes agreed. However, being near 40 points down, scoring 15 for the half is a fair reason for the loss. Our poor starts are a problem; giving reason to when the game is actually on

 

[Tony Barber]

Yes agreed. However, being near 40 points down, scoring 15 for the half is a fair reason for the loss. Our poor starts are a problem; giving reason to when the game is actually on

I bet I'm on my own here, but I reckon he's worth 5 - 6 % of our salary cap.
Fwiw danger and Selwood combined reportedly get 16%.

We don't have anyone like Motlop. And we actually need another like him. We can't afford to lose him. So he will get his 650k.

 

[BORIS332]

The game was actually on the line in the first half. Where he was virtually a witches hat. He had friends though, but they aren't on 500k+

We're referring to two different games.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Anyone have the compo calculation for our draft pick if we lost Motlop to FA on a 500k or 650k deal over 2-3 years?

*Posted this in the Opposition Camp thread as well....

Band 3 second rounder (pick 35).

Possibly band 2 end first rounder (pick 19) but he would need to go on a 4-5 year deal on that money at least for that.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Until the game reaches a point where it can't be salvaged, it is always on the line.

Actually, by definition it's not. The game is on the line when it's being fought out by two closely competing teams where either result is realistically attainable. This isn't the case when you're 6 goals down at half time against the Eagles in Perth. Expectations were lowered after half time to the point where very few people would have tipped us to be winning the match.

You can't just say so-and-so didn't perform when it mattered because for SOME of the time when it mattered, he was shit.

When the game was infact on the line he went missing as per usual and only came into the game once the Eagles had built up a healthy lead. It's not like this is a rare occurrence for him either. If you're happy with the fact that Motlop disappears from games when the heat is truly on then that's fine but I along with others aren't.

In a cricket match, a batsman making a fighting century in the second innings after his first innings duck played a role in them trailing doesn't suddenly get slagged off because 'if he'd played like this in the first innings he wouldn't need to make runs in the second.' He rightly gets criticised initially and praised secondarily.

This is a terrible analogy IMO. Cricket is a completely different sport that has no relevance to the format in which AFL football is played. In cricket a team may need to declare in order to give themselves an opportunity to bowl their opposition out making the 2nd innings more relevant. Also, in the 2nd innings teams can bat it out for a draw making any batsman's innings more relevant even if they're down by plenty on the scoreboard by that stage.

To sum up, Motlop too often goes missing when true heat is really applied and whether you want to argue that the game was on the line or not, everybody knows this. However, some people on this board have decided to continue in making silly, shallow excuses for a bloke that we simply need more from. Heading into this season I actually thought that there was a good chance that he was going to deliver and return to some of his best form. He just hasn't.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I bet I'm on my own here, but I reckon he's worth 5 - 6 % of our salary cap.
Fwiw danger and Selwood combined reportedly get 16%.

We don't have anyone like Motlop. And we actually need another like him. We can't afford to lose him. So he will get his 650k.

650K is dream time stuff. He won't get that on current form. Not from us anyway. Even with the increase in the cap he'll be lucky if he can get somewhere around the 500K mark from us. I'm hoping that he leaves as a FA though.

 

[thegerman]

We're referring to two different games.

I'm referring to most of this year

 

[thegerman]

I bet I'm on my own here, but I reckon he's worth 5 - 6 % of our salary cap.
Fwiw danger and Selwood combined reportedly get 16%.

We don't have anyone like Motlop. And we actually need another like him. We can't afford to lose him. So he will get his 650k.

No he won't. Far too often goes missing. I'd laugh at the management if they think he's worth that.

 

[Tony Barber]

No he won't. Far too often goes missing. I'd laugh at the management if they think he's worth that.

Well from reports his current contract is 5% of the salary cap. So feel free to laugh.
If the cap goes up 20% and his pay doesn't increase then he's effectively taken a 20% pay cut.

Either way, I think he's a critical player for us.

 

[catempire]

I bet I'm on my own here, but I reckon he's worth 5 - 6 % of our salary cap.
Fwiw danger and Selwood combined reportedly get 16%.

We don't have anyone like Motlop. And we actually need another like him. We can't afford to lose him. So he will get his 650k.

I don't agree with the dollars but you're spot on about how important he is.

 

[thegerman]

Well from reports his current contract is 5% of the salary cap. So feel free to laugh.
If the cap goes up 20% and his pay doesn't increase then he's effectively taken a 20% pay cut.

Either way, I think he's a critical player for us.

He may well be a critical player for us; just not how he's playing at the moment.

His current deal comes from a very good year a few years ago. The money he's on now doesn't match that level of output.

 

[Willo_]

Regardless of how much he wants, if he is staying or going.. i actually wouldn't mind him spending a bit of time as a permanent fwd at the moment. With Cocky probably out, Linc out, Menz unable to chase or tackle I think we need some zip. We all know he can make something out of nothing... and if he can start doing it, then it will get him up and going.

I was thinking the other day I don't reckon we have seen the finger twirl in ages, and while some people probably hate it.. it says to me he is on, he is happy, he is playing well... and we need that from him

 

[cats_09]

Regardless of how much he wants, if he is staying or going.. i actually wouldn't mind him spending a bit of time as a permanent fwd at the moment. With Cocky probably out, Linc out, Menz unable to chase or tackle I think we need some zip. We all know he can make something out of nothing... and if he can start doing it, then it will get him up and going.

I was thinking the other day I don't reckon we have seen the finger twirl in ages, and while some people probably hate it.. it says to me he is on, he is happy, he is playing well... and we need that from him

I was watching the North vs Saints match last night and the commentators made some interesting comments regarding Billings after his kicked his "3rd goal" before it got overturned on review as his previous "goal" had also.

They were talking about how he had been tried as a permanent midfielder over the past 18 months but it just wasn't working for him to the extent of being dropped at times last year, but this year they have moved him back to his role in the forward line where he looks much more comfortable and is having more of an impact. So far in 12 games this year he is averaging a career high 22 disposals, but has also kicked 12 goals 17 behinds; while in his 26 games over the previous 2 seasons he had kicked a total of 13 goals & 18 behinds. So here is a player who has gone back to playing forward so that he can go forward in his career.

I'm not sure why so many teams (us in particularly) seem determined that a players worth is in what they can do through the midfield at the expense of where they are best suited or where they can best assist the team. I the same in that I want to see Motlop move forward - that is where he is most damaging and where opposition coaches would most hate to see him play. If we are to be a contender this year, then that is a move we must make

 

[PhatBoy]

Actually, by definition it's not. The game is on the line when it's being fought out by two closely competing teams where either result is realistically attainable. This isn't the case when you're 6 goals down at half time against the Eagles in Perth. Expectations were lowered after half time to the point where very few people would have tipped us to be winning the match.

When the game was infact on the line he went missing as per usual and only came into the game once the Eagles had built up a healthy lead. It's not like this is a rare occurrence for him either. If you're happy with the fact that Motlop disappears from games when the heat is truly on then that's fine but I along with others aren't.

This is a terrible analogy IMO. Cricket is a completely different sport that has no relevance to the format in which AFL football is played. In cricket a team may need to declare in order to give themselves an opportunity to bowl their opposition out making the 2nd innings more relevant. Also, in the 2nd innings teams can bat it out for a draw making any batsman's innings more relevant even if they're down by plenty on the scoreboard by that stage.

To sum up, Motlop too often goes missing when true heat is really applied and whether you want to argue that the game was on the line or not, everybody knows this. However, some people on this board have decided to continue in making silly, shallow excuses for a bloke that we simply need more from. Heading into this season I actually thought that there was a good chance that he was going to deliver and return to some of his best form. He just hasn't.

1. Game isn't decided until the contest is over.
By your definition Hawkins winning is the game vs north was rubbish because he didn't fire until we were 6 goals down.

2. This direct discussion was about Thursdays game, not previous games.

3. The analogy is perfectly valid. Cricket is a competitive sport in which teams can build up a big edge, like football. Players can thrive in first, second, or both portions of a game.

 

[thegerman]

Regardless of how much he wants, if he is staying or going.. i actually wouldn't mind him spending a bit of time as a permanent fwd at the moment. With Cocky probably out, Linc out, Menz unable to chase or tackle I think we need some zip. We all know he can make something out of nothing... and if he can start doing it, then it will get him up and going.

I was thinking the other day I don't reckon we have seen the finger twirl in ages, and while some people probably hate it.. it says to me he is on, he is happy, he is playing well... and we need that from him

Totally agree with you Willo. I think we've put him on or around the ball for not much return. I'd rather 80% forward time, hunting defenders, then the rest on a flank with some lead up work.

The big plus here is he's generally a very good kick for goal. Plus his snap is also good. Fairly good mark above his head, so putting back into the forward line is beneficial for the team.

 

[Willo_]

I was watching the North vs Saints match last night and the commentators made some interesting comments regarding Billings after his kicked his "3rd goal" before it got overturned on review as his previous "goal" had also.

They were talking about how he had been tried as a permanent midfielder over the past 18 months but it just wasn't working for him to the extent of being dropped at times last year, but this year they have moved him back to his role in the forward line where he looks much more comfortable and is having more of an impact. So far in 12 games this year he is averaging a career high 22 disposals, but has also kicked 12 goals 17 behinds; while in his 26 games over the previous 2 seasons he had kicked a total of 13 goals & 18 behinds. So here is a player who has gone back to playing forward so that he can go forward in his career.

I'm not sure why so many teams (us in particularly) seem determined that a players worth is in what they can do through the midfield at the expense of where they are best suited or where they can best assist the team. I the same in that I want to see Motlop move forward - that is where he is most damaging and where opposition coaches would most hate to see him play. If we are to be a contender this year, then that is a move we must make

I do also think that when Mots is on he runs his arse off and works back to receive the ball around half back, then his run and carry is crucial (I actually think he was good in this regard v the crows)
But start him forward, he can work up the ground still but he is more likely to be in dangerous positions, and if he starts feeling good and gets a spark he will be a big headache up the ground as well

 

[catempire]

Appearances can be deceiving:

 

[Tony Barber]

I completely forgot the footy was on tonight.
Put the tv on. 8 minutes to go, and immediately saw magic from Burgoyne.

And straight away I thought "oh Motlop, that's what I've always wished you had become".

And fwiw. I thought the Hawks paid too much for Burgoyne. Got that wrong! They under paid.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I completely forgot the footy was on tonight.
Put the tv on. 8 minutes to go, and immediately saw magic from Burgoyne.

And straight away I thought "oh Motlop, that's what I've always wished you had become".

And fwiw. I thought the Hawks paid too much for Burgoyne. Got that wrong! They under paid.

Yeah, Burgoyne's EASILY been their best 'recycled' player. He's been vital to their success. Their Brad Ottens, if you will. (I won't compare him to Dangerfield as Paddy hasn't brought us any Premierships. Yet)