Training Summer Footy Fix - 2022 training watch

[KermitJagger]

The dominated by bigger bodies comments I believe will be reality. We are a couple of years off competing with teams filled with senior bodies.

I find this hard to believe, our midfield is bigger and more physical this year than I can remember it being. Especially when you compare it to 2018 when we finished top 4.

Hard to make a case that keeping senior bodies like Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell and Shiels while adding solidly built but developing players like Worpel, Newcombe and Nash is going to make for a team that will be dominated. You can definitely make a case that we lack established midfielders who provide impact, particularly up forward, but it's not going to be a case of being dominated by bigger bodies.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Name a midfielder that will play rd 1 that is physically underdeveloped?

There is a difference between being dominated by bigger bodied midfielders and competing with other midfields

Mind you said underdeveloped midfield beat

Brisbane
Dogs
and drew with Dees

I never specifically referred to the midfield and I still am comfortable with my comments. Whilst we have some well built lads we also have an abundance of players across the field who are light and will find the going tough against bigger teams.

 

[Slainte]

The dominated by bigger bodies comments I believe will be reality. We are a couple of years off competing with teams filled with senior bodies.

Can't say that this is something keeping me awake at night. I accept that we are a big body down in the back half but the midfield and forward half have plenty of size. Nash, Newcomb and Worpel are at or pushing 90kg and both JOM and TM have mature hard bodies. Lewis is 23 and seriously big and Kosi is no midget. I can't see too many sides bullying us this coming season.

 

[Big Hotdog]

I find this hard to believe, our midfield is bigger and more physical this year than I can remember it being. Especially when you compare it to 2018 when we finished top 4.

Hard to make a case that keeping senior bodies like Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell and Shiels while adding solidly built but developing players like Worpel, Newcombe and Nash is going to make for a team that will be dominated. You can definitely make a case that we lack established midfielders who provide impact, particularly up forward, but it's not going to be a case of being dominated by bigger bodies.

Bighawk referred to the midfield.

 

[KermitJagger]

Bighawk referred to the midfield.

The comment of being dominated by bigger bodies is innately about the midfield though, that's where attack and defence starts, as well as where most contests take place.

If you could point to specific concerns about other areas of the ground that'd be good, considering our defense is probably our strongest and most experienced line. Find it difficult to rebut concerns that are as general as yours.

 

[Big Hotdog]

The comment of being dominated by bigger bodies is innately about the midfield though, that's where attack and defence starts, as well as where most contests take place.

If you could point to specific concerns about other areas of the ground that'd be good, considering our defense is probably our strongest and most experienced line. Find it difficult to rebut concerns that are as general as yours.

If i can give a comparison may help. If we look at the Geelong and Richmond sides of the past couple of years or even going back to the threepeat team then I cannot see our current team matching it physically, at present with them for four quarters.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Bighawk referred to the midfield.

Our forward line isn't small

Our backline isn't underdeveloped or lacking strength

Where else could you have been referring?

 

[Big Hotdog]

Our forward line isn't small

Our backline isn't underdeveloped or lacking strength

Where else could you have been referring?

Across the board. Its not all doom and gloom. Every side goes through this.

 

[Pessimistic]

We may start with a development first mindset (Particularly if our admin has given Sammy wriggle room), but right up to the round 14 bye I see three pencil-in losses and the other ten being genuine 50-50s - not so much certain wins although Gold coast, Collingwood and North are in there- Brisbane and Sydney at York park.

Things could go really well as easily as really badly so they may be on 6-7 wins and tempted to give it a real shot, meaning perhaps less opportunity to add in more youngsters (the best 22 seems to be half under 25y anyway) If its 3-5 wins its the tipping point at that stage of the season.

 

[Flukey!]

Hi guys, I’m a new resident in Waverley Park and am pretty keen to head down to the track to watch the intra club tomorrow. Is anybody ontop of the time it starts or any further information etc.

Mate, that is like asking this bloke to post up his secret herbs and spices recipe.


And that is for Hawthorn supporters.
Those that know, don't share. Its a bit like being a Scientologist I believe...

 

[KermitJagger]

If i can give a comparison may help. If we look at the Geelong and Richmond sides of the past couple of years or even going back to the threepeat team then I cannot see our current team matching it physically, at present with them for four quarters.

I understand that Geelong are a bigger side, which helps them on their own ground but has proved to be a negative on bigger grounds such as the MCG, but I don't get Richmond being a big or physically developed side. In a lot of cases they've been able to win despite representing mostly the opposite.

They were lauded as having a small "mosquito fleet" forward line, they had a 186cm midfielder competing in ruck contests, after the retirement of Rance their two key defenders were Astbury (195cm, 92kg) and Grimes (194cm, 91kg) neither of which are big for the position - in particular Grimes who typically plays small. Their midfield of Cotchin (185cm), Edwards (182cm), Prestia (175cm) and Bolton (175cm) is probably one of the smallest in the league with Martin being their only real powerhouse in size and strength.

Melbourne are a large and physically developed team, but it's not just the Hawks that are going to have difficulty overcoming that, that's the challenge for the entire league. It's not a point really worth singling out.

There are questions about the Hawks that are far more concerning about physicality and ability to compete.

• We don't have a reliable star inside/out mid that can impact the game like a lot of other teams; Fyfe, Dusty, Dangerfield, Petracca etc.
• With the amount of turnover we've had over the past few years and the change in the coaching lineup, we'll probably have issues with continuity while we figure it out
• We now have one of the youngest sides in the league which is going to mean we'll have inconsistency across games and quarters

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I never specifically referred to the midfield and I still am comfortable with my comments. Whilst we have some well built lads we also have an abundance of players across the field who are light and will find the going tough against bigger teams.

I still have concerns about our overall size across the field as well (especially the midfield) although I concede the last couple of years we appear to have drafted in some size in Newcombe, Downie, etc.

It's why I think our midfield unit has been so up and down the last three years.

A core midfield unit of Mitchell, JOM and Worpel who are all around 181 to 185cm and 82 to 85kg going up against 90kg+ bulls like Petracca, Wines, Martin, etc takes a toll over a 22 game season.

For me the players that are the real difference makers in today's AFL are your power midfielders who can use their brute strength to break away for m contest (Petracca being the classic example) and we still lack this type of player (Worps and JOM try but they just aren't big enough and strong enough to pull it off consistently).

 

[Bugs1977]

I find this hard to believe, our midfield is bigger and more physical this year than I can remember it being. Especially when you compare it to 2018 when we finished top 4.

Hard to make a case that keeping senior bodies like Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell and Shiels while adding solidly built but developing players like Worpel, Newcombe and Nash is going to make for a team that will be dominated. You can definitely make a case that we lack established midfielders who provide impact, particularly up forward, but it's not going to be a case of being dominated by bigger bodies.

I would've thought that the issue for us has more been about the link up play after we get the ball. With the addition of Bramble last year and Ward this year and others coming on in this area that things wold be looking a lot better this season. Having Newk, Nash and even Howe run through that guts when needed means that we aren't as small as we've been in the past so yeah I don't think size is going to be a huge issue. Some more outside speed is most definitely needed and you'd think this will be another part we'll address when we get the chance.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

I would've thought that the issue for us has more been about the link up play after we get the ball. With the addition of Bramble last year and Ward this year and others coming on in this area that things wold be looking a lot better this season. Having Newk, Nash and even Howe run through that guts when needed means that we aren't as small as we've been in the past so yeah I don't think size is going to be a huge issue. Some more outside speed is most definitely needed and you'd think this will be another part we'll address when we get the chance.

I agree Bugs.

Out with the stop, prop and dinky kick backwards once you get the ball.
In with the run hard, break hard and attack !

This is most of all what I am hoping to see from Sammy's Soldiers.

We might stuff it up early, might turn it over a lot .... but I would rather do that than handball backwards to a teammate's ankles.

 

[JaegarTime]

I still have concerns about our overall size across the field as well (especially the midfield) although I concede the last couple of years we appear to have drafted in some size in Newcombe, Downie, etc.

It's why I think our midfield unit has been so up and down the last three years.

A core midfield unit of Mitchell, JOM and Worpel who are all around 181 to 185cm and 82 to 85kg going up against 90kg+ bulls like Petracca, Wines, Martin, etc takes a toll over a 22 game season.

For me the players that are the real difference makers in today's AFL are your power midfielders who can use their brute strength to break away for m contest (Petracca being the classic example) and we still lack this type of player (Worps and JOM try but they just aren't big enough and strong enough to pull it off consistently).

Petracca is 1cm taller than Worpel. He’s just a freak with his explosiveness. Worpel has explosive qualities but height isn’t the issue there

 

[ppphawk]

I still have concerns about our overall size across the field as well (especially the midfield) although I concede the last couple of years we appear to have drafted in some size in Newcombe, Downie, etc.

It's why I think our midfield unit has been so up and down the last three years.

A core midfield unit of Mitchell, JOM and Worpel who are all around 181 to 185cm and 82 to 85kg going up against 90kg+ bulls like Petracca, Wines, Martin, etc takes a toll over a 22 game season.

For me the players that are the real difference makers in today's AFL are your power midfielders who can use their brute strength to break away for m contest (Petracca being the classic example) and we still lack this type of player (Worps and JOM try but they just aren't big enough and strong enough to pull it off

I wonder if we see a different side to Tom under a (potentially) more attacking game plan with Mitch

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Petracca is 1cm taller than Worpel. He’s just a freak with his explosiveness. Worpel has explosive qualities but height isn’t the issue there

Petracca is only 1cm taller than Worpel but he is about 13kg heavier which makes his a ability to cover the ground like he does and be so explosively quick at his weight remarkable.

Because Petracca has that extra 14kg he can break tackles a lot easier than Worps can at 85kg.

Admittedly Petracca is an absolute freak in his build and athletic ability (similiar to Garry Abblet Senior) so unfair to compare Worps to him but I still feel overall our midfield is relatively on the smallish side.

 

[Big Hotdog]

I understand that Geelong are a bigger side, which helps them on their own ground but has proved to be a negative on bigger grounds such as the MCG, but I don't get Richmond being a big or physically developed side. In a lot of cases they've been able to win despite representing mostly the opposite.

They were lauded as having a small "mosquito fleet" forward line, they had a 186cm midfielder competing in ruck contests, after the retirement of Rance their two key defenders were Astbury (195cm, 92kg) and Grimes (194cm, 91kg) neither of which are big for the position - in particular Grimes who typically plays small. Their midfield of Cotchin (185cm), Edwards (182cm), Prestia (175cm) and Bolton (175cm) is probably one of the smallest in the league with Martin being their only real powerhouse in size and strength.

Melbourne are a large and physically developed team, but it's not just the Hawks that are going to have difficulty overcoming that, that's the challenge for the entire league. It's not a point really worth singling out.

There are questions about the Hawks that are far more concerning about physicality and ability to compete.

• We don't have a reliable star inside/out mid that can impact the game like a lot of other teams; Fyfe, Dusty, Dangerfield, Petracca etc.
• With the amount of turnover we've had over the past few years and the change in the coaching lineup, we'll probably have issues with continuity while we figure it out
• We now have one of the youngest sides in the league which is going to mean we'll have inconsistency across games and quarters

My memory of the Richmond game from early 2021 was watching us get bullied. Kosi and Timmy offered little physical presence. There was no one to lay a crunching defensive tackle let alone crash a pack.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

I think were slowly addressing our issues, we use to be short as well. Now we have McEvoy, Reeves, Lynch, Jeka, Koshcitzke, Lewis, Callow, frost, Hartigan and Nash.

Tom Mitchell has appeared to bulk up, add Nash an / or Newcombe to the mid mix and i think we can start to hold our own. We certainly need a couple of more players like this on the list though.

 

[Slainte]

My memory of the Richmond game from early 2021 was watching us get bullied. Kosi and Timmy offered little physical presence. There was no one to lay a crunching defensive tackle let alone crash a pack.

This is the team we picked to play Richmond in Rd 2:

B	Frost	Hartigan	Howe
HB	Impey	Hardwick	Morrison
W	Moore	O’Meara	Day
HF	Breust	Koschitzke	Phillips
F	O’Brien	Ceglar	Hanrahan
FOL	McEvoy	Mitchell	Worpel
INT	Jiath	Burgoyne	Shiels	Brockman
EMG	Cousins	Morris	Lewis	Scrimshaw

Not a lot of size in that team. We will be bringing a lot more grunt to the context this year - the youngsters will have had another pre-season and Newcombe and/or Nash will add hurt to the midfield.

 

[CHUBBSS]

 

[Brishawk]

Hi guys, I’m a new resident in Waverley Park and am pretty keen to head down to the track to watch the intra club tomorrow. Is anybody ontop of the time it starts or any further information etc.

3 am tomorrow morning. Don’t miss it!

 

[JaegarTime]

Petracca is only 1cm taller than Worpel but he is about 13kg heavier which makes his a ability to cover the ground like he does and be so explosively quick at his weight remarkable.

Because Petracca has that extra 14kg he can break tackles a lot easier than Worps can at 85kg.

Admittedly Petracca is an absolute freak in his build and athletic ability (similiar to Garry Abblet Senior) so unfair to compare Worps to him but I still feel overall our midfield is relatively on the smallish side.

Fair point! Breezed over the weight discussion. I’m just sick of being told that size matters

 

[Kanga Commando]

Hi guys, I’m a new resident in Waverley Park and am pretty keen to head down to the track to watch the intra club tomorrow. Is anybody ontop of the time it starts or any further information etc.

it seems no-one can answer the question about WHEN training is on though... IIRC Monday and Thursday mornings, but then sometimes Friday morning. Oh, family day is different, and then if it's finals time, forget it...

But seriously, how many of us can you have on the balcony ?

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

I think were slowly addressing our issues, we use to be short as well. Now we have McEvoy, Reeves, Lynch, Jeka, Koshcitzke, Lewis, Callow, frost, Hartigan and Nash.

Tom Mitchell has appeared to bulk up, add Nash an / or Newcombe to the mid mix and i think we can start to hold our own. We certainly need a couple of more players like this on the list though.

and Ward, we need more class in there so we're not so easy to read like last season, clubs figured out we created attacks from half back.