Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[Obeanie1]

This thread is not going to end well.

We want to keep the Academy in the shadows, not highlight it on the main board.

Why would you want to hide anything?

Are you feeling guilty or something?

 

[WillHayward]

Didn't COLA end back in 2012 after constant whining from Eddie McGuire?

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

I've been saying this for sometime now. This idea about the strength of the Swans academy is a big footy myth..our list is very very average. Players coming up through the academy threadbare.

On Saturday we had Pete Ladhams and Aaron Francis as emergencies. That's not good depth.

In terms of kids playing the game and being drafted, NSW remains very weak.
If anything it's an indictment on the other 16 teams we made it to the GF because we seriously aren't very good.

Lions Academy would thrash the Swans academy by 20 goals

outstanding bump

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Didn't COLA end back in 2012 after constant whining from Eddie McGuire?

Didn't you lose it because of Tippett and Buddy? Quite a move, blew up the Bloods culture AND lost COLA

 

[WillHayward]

So basically you want COLA back and some more handouts from AFL. Not enough you have:

1. An academy
2. Rorted COLA to to poach Franklin
3. Employed John Blakey a 350+ veteran for North so that you could get your hands on his son

Bloods kulture and all that, please

Im fairly certain Blakey and Horse were best mates long before Nick was even a twinkle in his dad's eyes.

Also in the end we probably OVER PAID for Blakey. Like we did Campbell. We actually had to use high draft picks on these two.

 

[Bloods86]

Fact is the AFL and sponsors fund the academiea. Not large club cash investment. The club runs it and benefits 100% and puts in very little of its own money.

Very simplistic take.

Everyone benefits from the northern academies because you've got northern clubs taking more local players, many of whom would never be AFL players otherwise, leaving more quality Vic, SA, WA etc players, with longer running draft pathways, for the other teams.

If you don't understand the basic maths behind it, that's not our fault.

 

[WillHayward]

Didn't you lose it because of Tippett and Buddy? Quite a move, blew up the Bloods culture AND lost COLA

Not directly. After Buddy, Eddie McGuire went on a PR rampage against COLA at a time when he was very influential.
His campaign worked.
But this is the power of Melbourne based media.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Very simplistic take.

Everyone benefits from the northern academies because you've got northern clubs taking more local players, many of whom would never be AFL players otherwise, leaving more quality Vic, SA, WA etc players, with longer running draft pathways, for the other teams.

If you don't understand the basic maths behind it, that's not our fault.

So that's your take then is it?

You get to take Vic kids also as per the draft, the same as every other club.

Should Vic clubs get exclusive rights to Vic kids? of course not.

 

[Bloods86]

Not directly. After Buddy, Eddie McGuire went on a PR rampage against COLA at a time when he was very influential.
His campaign worked.
But this is the power of Melbourne based media.

Wasn't just Vic media. The likes of Ricciuto were banging on about COLA, academies.

No interest in a national game. While SA, WA clubs have their own issues with Vic bias, there's absolutely no solidarity with the non traditional footy states.

 

[SM]

So that's your take then is it?

You get to take Vic kids also as per the draft, the same as every other club.

Should Vic clubs get exclusive rights to Vic kids? of course not.

Nah that'd ruin the ability for Vic clubs to pick the kids up after 2 years of development in other states on the cheap.

 

[WillHayward]

Explain exactly where the money comes from and be truthful.

You say the Swans Foundation.

Where does the Foundation get the funds?

Exactly how much is funded from Sydney profits?

Fact is the AFL and sponsors fund the academiea. Not large club cash investment. The club runs it and benefits 100% and puts in very little of its own money.

The weekend was the battle of the AFL's pet clubs who are driving TV Rights deals. The two clubs in Northern expansion states with the biggest leg up any teams get. A borderline fixed horse race.

And they got flogged again. AFL will need to bump up the Swans handouts more. Or maybe reduce those the Lions get.

You're really missing the big picture

To maintain the current revenues, AFL have to provide broadcasters 9 games a week. Maybe 10.

We need to fill 19 or 20 teams. Unless they expand the player pool, the standard will drop off.

It's all really that simple.

They know they need NSW to increase the player pool. You can't ignore 8 million people. It's a third of the country.

The other option is we revert to 16 teams.

 

[Bloods86]

So that's your take then is it?

You get to take Vic kids also as per the draft, the same as every other club.

Should Vic clubs get exclusive rights to Vic kids? of course not.

Wow.

If we take locals, we don't take a Vic kid. Obviously. We're not getting extra players.

If the academy doesn't exist, there's fewer locals that make it to the AFL at all, and we take more Vic kids (or SA, WA etc), while the overall talent pool quality and quantity reduces.

 

[Obeanie1]

Take a look inside your Club Lach.

Recruitment
Development
Coaching (Game tactics)

Tell me how much of your 'disadvantage' has been based on our success.

We have some advantages, currently reaping the benefits of the Academy training. Dedicated Home Ground (although uniquely absent of 'home team umpiring').

Your Club is in a traditional AFL State, you have also the ability to target WA players you have ignored that want to return home (such as the SA Clubs are currently doing) [which is exactly why the Northern Academies exist, to create local talent]. and the dedicated Home Ground. Your travel > than ours but even our Club President is vocal on that front on behalf of the WA Clubs.

Maybe focus on all the inequities instead of obsessing on one.

Attracting WA players back is an advantage the Swans don't have?

Yet the Swans have always been able to attract big names such as Locket, Hall and Franklin.

Now Grundy. J Jones. T Adams. Wonder who it will be this year?

How many big names have the Eagles traded in? Dockers?

Any gun Vic players willing to be traded West? No. None.

So from actual trade history it looks like the Swans don't have the disadvantage the WA clubs have in attracting quality trades. That is what the facts say.

 

[SM]

Attracting WA players back is an advantage the Swans don't have?

Yet the Swans have always been able to attract big names such as Locket, Hall and Franklin.

Now Grundy. J Jones. T Adams. Wonder who it will be this year?

How many big names have the Eagles traded in? Dockers?

Any gun Vic players willing to be traded West? No. None.

So from actual trade history it looks like the Swans don't have the disadvantage the WA clubs have in attracting quality trades. That is what the facts say.

Who the **** is J Jones?

 

[Obeanie1]

You're really missing the big picture

To maintain the current revenues, AFL have to provide broadcasters 9 games a week. Maybe 10.

We need to fill 19 or 20 teams. Unless they expand the player pool, the standard will drop off.

It's all really that simple.

They know they need NSW to increase the player pool. You can't ignore 8 million people. It's a third of the country.

The other option is we revert to 16 teams.

Lol big picture.

How about the academiearcontinue. The AFL and sponsors continue funding them.

And Clubs don't get generous discounts if they want the kid.

Then those lucky clubs don't get to double dip playing the system like they have been at the disadvantage of others.

The talent pool still gets bigger and every team benefits. Not just teams in expansion states.

 

[Bloods86]

Who the **** is J Jones?

Jamaine Jones, Vic draftee, played for Cats, then amusingly, got picked up by the Eagles.

 

[Bloods86]

Lol big picture.

How about the academiearcontinue. The AFL and sponsors continue funding them.

And Clubs don't get generous discounts if they want the kid.

Then those lucky clubs don't get to double dip playing the system like they have been at the disadvantage of others.

The talent pool still gets bigger and every team benefits. Not just teams in expansion states.

Please explain how we get to double dip?

 

[Obeanie1]

Who the **** is J Jones?

Sorry James Jordan.....

The chap from Melbourne picked up as a FA.

 

[Bloods86]

Sorry James Jordan.....

The chap from Melbourne picked up as a FA.

Who is James Jordan?

 

[RUNVS]

Swans won't really be getting any academy players of note in 2024, though we are hopeful for a few in 2025.

 

[Obeanie1]

Please explain how we get to double dip?

Bank the discounts.

Trade out decent picks for crap later picks for points.

Trade in and bank future picks and use them.

Basically get your cake and eat it too.

It's pretty obvious the rort. It's why changes were needed.

But teams making and winning grand finals remain entitled to more priority access at a discount. Why? They are playing in grand finals and spending all year on top of the ladder. They don't need any more help do they?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Wow.

If we take locals, we don't take a Vic kid. Obviously. We're not getting extra players.

If the academy doesn't exist, there's fewer locals that make it to the AFL at all, and we take more Vic kids (or SA, WA etc), while the overall talent pool quality and quantity reduces.

You get to take both.

You don't bid on Vic kids, you get your draft pick and take them in order, the same with every club.
I don't really care myself, but you more or less saying it's not a benefit is just laughable.

How about we let Vic clubs get 1st dibs on Vic players, you know, that would leave more of the rest for you lot wouldn't it?
That's what you are saying isn't it?

 

[Obeanie1]

Didn't COLA end back in 2012 after constant whining from Eddie McGuire?

No it ended when everyone finally found out the AFL were also bankrolling the rort.

It ended very quickly after that fact hit the airwaves.

 

[Bloods86]

Bank the discounts.

Trade out decent picks for crap later picks for points.

Trade in and bank future picks and use them.

Basically get your cake and eat it too.

It's pretty obvious the rort. It's why changes were needed.

But teams making and winning grand finals remain entitled to more priority access at a discount. Why? They are playing in grand finals and spending all year on top of the ladder. They don't need any more help do they?

I'm fine with some adjustment to the points system.

I think you're overstating the benefits though, and we're benefitting other clubs while doing those trades.

Unless of course you're Gold Coast who have screwed themselves trying to retain players against poachers, end up giving picks away for free, and when you finally get some a great academy haul everyone else starts crying about the injustice.

 

[SM]

Sorry James Jordan.....

The chap from Melbourne picked up as a FA.

The big name??!!