Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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FlyingV said:
Ahhh how is Tex wanganeen a ‘rising star’, and Durham ‘needs development’?
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shallow analysis, not enough x factor
 
I Remember Bluey said:

AFL list analysis: Gary Buckenara analyses Essendon’s list, names Ross Lyon as perfect coach​

This time last year, Collingwood making the top-four could not have seemed more farfetched — here’s why history could repeat at Essendon.

What a messy end to the season it was for Essendon.
Coach gone. A failed bid to lure Clarko and the CEO out the door as well.
But as much as the Bombers are a rabble off the field at the moment, the club’s list is in better shape.
In fact, if the Bombers can sort out their off-field issues and find the right coach – I’m looking at you Ross Lyon – they can easily be a top-eight side next year, if not top four.
The new coach has got a real opportunity. It would be a good job to get.

The Bombers’ list has talent and is well-balanced overall and that is clear with 24 A, B and rising star-ranked players. If anything, the club’s top-end talent could be a bit thin.

After sneaking into the finals in 2021, the Bombers should have been a top-eight team again this year, but the early part of the season really cost them.

The group had some disappointing losses this season, but some patience is required with developing players.

Overall, the list quality is there. With the developing players coming through, I see a lot to get excited about.

I expect there will be a few more A-graders added to the list in the near future such as Nik Cox, Harrison Jones, Nick Bryan and Nic Martin.

This season would have been a good learning year for the Bombers’ young players about how hard it is to back up a good year with another one – and just how brutal the business can be after their coach Ben Rutten was sacked.

Lyon is the perfect man for the vacant job because the Bombers need a harder edge – and Ross would demand that.

Of all the potential candidates, he would bring that edge in terms of the way he would want them to play and he would fix up the defensive side of their game where they were getting slaughtered.

Off-field, the only survivors are football manager Josh Mahoney and list boss Adrian Dodoro.

Dodoro has been at the Bombers for much of the club’s past 20 years without a flag, but he has done a good job in the past couple of years.

The issue with Dodoro is that rival clubs are often hesitant to do deals with him as he has a reputation of playing hard ball and holding up deals, wanting too much for his players and often offering way undoers for other club’s players.

Could it be time for a fresh set of eyes in this department as well?

While the Bombers search for new off-field leadership, there could be a change on-field as well as captain Dyson Heppell’s future remains unclear as he is courted by Gold Coast.

Even if Heppell was to stay, it could be time for a younger player to step up into the role with Zach Merrett or Andy McGrath the obvious candidates.

McGrath I have as an A-grader because he’s very dangerous off halfback. He burst onto the scene winning the rising star and I think he’s been consistent despite the team’s on-field issues.

He can be the great metres-gain player and the best is still in front of him.



HOW THE RATINGS WORK

At a club level, player ranking is generally based on gradings of A+, A, B+, B, C+, C and the developing players.

My rankings will focus on A, B, C and for the developing 20-year-old and under players will be rated as rising stars (RS) and those that need more time (NMT).

With the younger players, it is important to consider who is coming through and those who need longer to develop.

The most important areas for clubs to look at is how many A and B ranked players they have as well as the rising stars, who I believe should be A and B-grade players in the future.

RATING THE LIST​



A

Darcy Parish, 24, 180cm, 82kg

Zach Merrett, 26, 179cm, 85kg

Jake Stringer, 28, 192cm, 91kg

Andrew McGrath, 24, 180cm, 83kg



B

Sam Draper, 23, 205cm, 105kg

Kyle Langford, 25, 192cm, 88kg

Dylan Shiel, 29, 182cm, 84kg

Jordan Ridley, 23, 195cm, 93kg

Jayden Laverde, 26, 193cm, 91kg

Nick Hind, 27, 180cm, 76kg

Peter Wright, 25, 203cm, 102kg

Dyson Heppell, 30, 189cm, 87kg

Harrison Jones, 21, 196cm, 88kg

Mason Redman, 24, 187cm, 86kg

Jake Kelly, 27, 190cm, 91kg

Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, 23, 195cm, 89kg

Matt Guelfi, 24, 184cm, 84kg

Nic Martin, 21, 192cm, 82kg

C

Jye Caldwell, 21, 183cm, 83kg

Aaron Francis, 24, 193cm, 92kg

Will Snelling, 24, 175cm, 79kg

James Stewart, 28, 199cm, 99kg

Brayden Ham, 23, 182cm, 79kg

Andrew Phillips, 30, 201cm, 101kg

Cian McBride R, 21, 197cm, 90kg

Alec Waterman R, 25, 182cm, 89kg


Developing (20 years and under)

Rising stars

Ben Hobbs, 18, 183cm, 79kg

Nik Cox, 20, 200cm, 94kg

Archie Perkins, 20, 188cm, 80kg

Nick Bryan, 20, 203cm, 101kg

Tex Wanganeen, 18, 179cm, 78kg

Massimo D’Ambrosio R, 19, 178cm, 80kg



Needs more time

Sam Durham, 20, 185cm, 84kg

Kaine Baldwin, 20, 193cm, 95kg

Alastair Lord, 18, 181cm, 75kg

Zach Reid, 20, 202cm, 90kg

Josh Eyre, 19, 198cm, 93kg

Cody Brand, 20, 195cm, 92kg

Patrick Voss R, 18, 194cm, 93kg

Jye Menzie R, 19, 180cm, 81kg



Retired: Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti, Michael Hurley, Devon Smith



Delisted: Tom Cutler, Garrett McDonagh, Tom Hird

LIST BREAKDOWN​

A-Grade: 4

B-Grade: 14

C-Grade: 8

Developing (20 years and under)

Rising Stars: 6

Need more time: 8


LIST NEEDS

Essendon’s list is well balanced, but there are some areas across the ground they could address through free agency and trade. The Bombers’ top-end talent could do with a boost.

They traded for Jye Caldwell and he’s still in the C-grade level. He’s still young and it seems like he has struggled finding the ball at AFL level. He still has talent, it hasn’t disappeared but he just needs more certainty at senior level. Give him one more year and see what happens.

While they could also be in the market for a key defender and a really clever small forward. But one of their biggest problems has been a lack of grunt at stoppages. The bigger-bodied midfielders, like a Patrick Cripps type. They don’t come around all the time, but that’s the sort of body shape that can muscle around and win stoppages and they just don’t seem to have that. With rival clubs circling, retaining young ruck prospect Nick Bryan to help Sam Draper should also be a priority for the club. Given this year’s draft looks strong, the Bombers need to balance any potential trade targets up against the young players they could bring in with those traits via the draft. They still desperately need to bolster its key position stocks the front end of the ground. Overall, the Bombers’ list is in a strong position to build on but they have some work to do.

TRADE TARGETS

The Bombers made a play at unsigned Western Bulldogs midfielder Josh Dunkley last time, so why not have another swing again? Dunkley would immediately add to the Bombers’ top-end talent and, at the age of 25, would be arriving at the club as he enters his prime. He is that grunt player they need. He is not the outside, slick ball user, but he is a stoppage player and he does it really well at the Bulldogs. Fremantle backman Griffin Logue could fill a defensive need and, at 24, also has plenty of upside to his game, so why not put something on the table for him? There is noise about Junior Rioli’s future at West Coast and there could be a link there for the livewire forward with Michael Long. Rioli is looming like he’ll join Port Adelaide so the Dons need to get ambitious given they’ve been eager to add a small forward -Izak Rankine and Bobby Hill in recent years. Could they look at a more value play in Demons’ small forward Toby Bedford or Geelong’s Quinton Narkle? It wouldn’t cost the Bombers much but would address a key need. But the Bombers might want to make sure they have enough salary cap space to make a play at Gold Coast forward Ben King and Carlton’s Harry McKay when they come out of contract next year. I would sell it to King on the basis that St Kilda – where brother Max is – probably haven’t got the list that is going to win a premiership any time soon and they might have to go back to the drawing board whereas the Bombers are on the rise. While they should entice McKay by ensuring he’d be well renumerated compared to what he’d get at the Blues.

TRADE BAIT

Midfielder Dylan Shiel could be one candidate for a spot on the trade table if the Bombers could find a club willing to part ways with a top-30 pick. In the middle of a six-year deal, the former Giant has not delivered what they thought he would be in terms of that grunt player that could win the ball and get it out. He has only done that outside stuff and very little of the inside grunt work. I just don’t think he had measured up to what they wanted. But they could probably get a second-round pick for him or use him in a trade to get another player from a rival club that suits their needs. Heppell is weighing up a move to the Gold Coast, but that is unlikely to reap the Bombers much in terms of compensation. It might be a later second, or even a third-round pick because of his age demographic. But if the compensatory pick was at the start of the second, or even the start of the third, the Bombers are still going to get a good young player in this draft. That’s what I think they should look at doing.

CRYSTAL BALL

With the right appointments off the field, it should not take Essendon long to turn around what ended as a forgettable 2022 season. Their list is well-balanced with the right blend of developing players, depth players (C-grade) and a good spread of A and B-graders – even if their top-end talent could do with a bit of a boost. There is no denying the Bombers’ 2022 campaign was a disappointment, particularly early on in the year.

Given the expectations for 2022, I can understand the level of impatience among the club‘s supporters and football experts over the Bombers’ progress – or lack thereof. But this can sometimes happen with a younger group of developing players just struggling with more opposition attention and they should be better off for that experience.

The new coach has to pick up this group and get them playing committed team football with a far harder edge to them than what they showed this year.

The Bombers should be top-eight contenders – if not more – over the next few years, which has the potential to be an exciting new chapter for the club.
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Caldwell = McBride......fmd.
 

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owen87 said:
When was the last time our list was greater than the sum of it's parts? Seems we've got a lot of pieces that look good, but don't work together nicely so never quite achieve what they should.
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We always look better on paper than we do in reality and I think that primarily reflects poor list management. It's never enough to just identify talent - good list management requires you to identify talent plus fit. Teams that regularly achieve that - I think Geelong and Richmond are good recent examples - tend to perform better on the field than you might anticipate based purely on their personnel.
 
calyam said:
We always look better on paper than we do in reality and I think that primarily reflects poor list management. It's never enough to just identify talent - good list management requires you to identify talent plus fit. Teams that regularly achieve that - I think Geelong and Richmond are good recent examples - tend to perform better on the field than you might anticipate based purely on their personnel.
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Geelong's development, which I'd attribute to their culture and standards, is largely a part of that imo.

Guthrie & his younger brother are great examples. they take the time to develop them, keep working on them and eventually get them to AFL standard
They can get a guy like Atkins through who displaces AFL quality players without the joint having noses out of place.

Can take a punt on a 23yo medium defender in the 2nd rd and see him win 4/6 possible AA jackets.

list goes on. We have lots to address.
 
citizen-erased said:
Geelong's development, which I'd attribute to their culture and standards, is largely a part of that imo.

Guthrie & his younger brother are great examples. they take the time to develop them, keep working on them and eventually get them to AFL standard
They can get a guy like Atkins through who displaces AFL quality players without the joint having noses out of place.

Can take a punt on a 23yo medium defender in the 2nd rd and see him win 4/6 possible AA jackets.

list goes on. We have lots to address.
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you know what's funny about about the Geelong developmental systems? It's not really ground breaking but they draft a defender and play them in defence, they draft a midfielder as a midfielder and develop them there.


Us on the other hand are trying to re invent the wheel with a number of things, it shows with our list imbalance
 
Yoda_ said:
you know what's funny about about the Geelong developmental systems? It's not really ground breaking but they draft a defender and play them in defence, they draft a midfielder as a midfielder and develop them there.


Us on the other hand are trying to re invent the wheel with a number of things, it shows with our list imbalance
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You mean like playing Cox on a wing?
 
Yoda_ said:
you know what's funny about about the Geelong developmental systems? It's not really ground breaking but they draft a defender and play them in defence, they draft a midfielder as a midfielder and develop them there.


Us on the other hand are trying to re invent the wheel with a number of things, it shows with our list imbalance
Click to expand...
When is the last time Geelong drafted and developed anyone? They're all mature age rookies and 27yo+ via trade. Anyone they get forced to draft because they're not allowed to trade the picks away, they trade the player away instead (unless they're an out and out superstar).
 
Lore said:
When is the last time Geelong drafted and developed anyone? They're all mature age rookies and 27yo+ via trade. Anyone they get forced to draft because they're not allowed to trade the picks away, they trade the player away instead (unless they're an out and out superstar).
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Point stands. Midfielder in the midfield. Defender in defence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yoda_ said:
Point stands. Midfielder in the midfield. Defender in defence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well you were talking about developmental systems. I don't think we can comment on the efficacy of systems that don't appear to get much use.
 
Yoda_ said:
The kid who played predominantly KP in his U-8 year? Yeah, probably right


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you mean U-18?


I'd be impressed if the recruiting team were keeping track of kids as young as U-8.... on second thoughts I'd probably be a little concerned if they were constantly seen at U-8s games.
 

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owen87 said:
Tom Atkins played in defence for a few years, now is in the midfield...
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Pressure forward actually, was always a big tackler, even at VFL level.
Lore said:
Well you were talking about developmental systems. I don't think we can comment on the efficacy of systems that don't appear to get much use.
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My point was a player was developed in the position they were drafted doing well in. Brad Close was a small fwd in the SANFL, Tom Atkins was a leading VFL midfielder, Tom Stewart an aerial specialist in defence etc. etc.
 
Nifft said:
I'm guessing you mean U-18?


I'd be impressed if the recruiting team were keeping track of kids as young as U-8.... on second thoughts I'd probably be a little concerned if they were constantly seen at U-8s games.
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yep, weird if Stephen Wells was at a Barwon Heads U8's game
 
Yoda_ said:
Point stands. Midfielder in the midfield. Defender in defence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
If you look at most of Geelong's current midfield (Parfitt, Atkins, Duncan, Guthrie, Dangerfield, Selwood and Smith), taking out Danger and Smith who were traded in, apart from Selwood all of them started in other areas of the ground. Parfitt started forward, Atkins did a bit forward and a bit back, Duncan was forward and Guthrie started in defence.

Sydney's midfield is a similar story. Parker started as a half forward, Mills started in defence, Florent and Rowbottom forward as well. Warner the only real exception.

Melbourne had Harmes start in defence, Petracca across half forward, Sparrow across half forward. Oliver and Viney the exceptions.

Most teams build their midfielders in the early years across half forward or half back before pushing them into the midfield.
 
Yoda_ said:
you know what's funny about about the Geelong developmental systems? It's not really ground breaking but they draft a defender and play them in defence, they draft a midfielder as a midfielder and develop them there.


Us on the other hand are trying to re invent the wheel with a number of things, it shows with our list imbalance
Click to expand...
You know what else they do ? The play them in the VFL until they are ready to fill the roles.
 
Yoda_ said:
Pretty sure we could just leave a list spot open and have the Supplemental Selection option open
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Depends how many others go. We already have five spots open.

The list sizes are 36-37 at the moment so there’s not a lot of wiggle room.
 
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