The 2017 Rights Deal Discussion thread

[RussellEbertHandball]

Women have to start watching women's sports in large numbers for those sports to rate.

Women dont watch sports -"they watch events - ie women in large numbers dont watch sports week in week out, but watch sports events in large numbers - Olympics, grand finals, Melbourne Cup, Australian Tennis Open, cricket on boxing day etc.

 

[The_Wookie]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/wafl/a/25827647/backers-secured-for-wafl-tv/

The WAFC is likely to contribute about $100,000 a season towards the annual $1 million cost, in line with its previous commitment to the ABC coverage.

The nine WAFL clubs may still be asked to contribute part of their marketing budget towards the broadcast arrangements.

However, any financial commitment to underwrite the coverage is now expected to be well short of the $50,000 a club previously flagged.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I have to admit I didn't follow the SANFL tv deal when it was made, so I don't know the details. Can someone clarify why the comps and the clubs for the state leagues are willing to pay the networks for coverage?

Are they getting a share of tv advertising revenue (so it's about removing the risk for the network), or is the exposure increasing club sponsorships enough to cover the cost?

 

[Kwality]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/wafl/a/25827647/backers-secured-for-wafl-tv/

Good work by the WAFC for WA footy

 

[Rob]

I have to admit I didn't follow the SANFL tv deal when it was made, so I don't know the details. Can someone clarify why the comps and the clubs for the state leagues are willing to pay the networks for coverage?

Are they getting a share of tv advertising revenue (so it's about removing the risk for the network), or is the exposure increasing club sponsorships enough to cover the cost?

I'm guessing it's the latter. There's also the issue of once you're off TV, it's very very hard to get back on it. If the WAFL went a year without a TV deal then it's probably going to be a hell of a lot longer than a year.

In saying that, some clubs should be a lot more pro-active with live streaming their games, especially those affiliated with the AFL clubs. It's not exactly expensive anymore.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm guessing it's the latter. There's also the issue of once you're off TV, it's very very hard to get back on it. If the WAFL went a year without a TV deal then it's probably going to be a hell of a lot longer than a year.

In saying that, some clubs should be a lot more pro-active with live streaming their games, especially those affiliated with the AFL clubs. It's not exactly expensive anymore.

Is there any confirmation the SANFL arrangement increased club revenues above the cost of paying c7?

Not saying it's a bad idea, but given the cost you would hope it's not another drag on the limited revenues of the SANFL, WAFL, and VFL (on a personal level I'd love to have all the games on FTA)

 

[Rob]

Is there any confirmation the SANFL arrangement increased club revenues above the cost of paying c7?

Not saying it's a bad idea, but given the cost you would hope it's not another drag on the limited revenues of the SANFL, WAFL, and VFL (on a personal level I'd love to have all the games on FTA)

I doubt anyone could confirm either way. There isn't likely to be a 'TV bonus' clause in any sponsorship agreements - they are what they are, and being on TV half a dozen times a year is just a selling feature. Whether they'd get as much money from sponsors without TV exposure is just speculation, but logic suggests they probably wouldn't.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

A few years ago the ABC management out of Sydney started asking for contributions to their state league competitions of the 3 codes in various mainland states. All the leagues figured $100k or $4-$5k a game was worth it and even though you cant advertise on ABC there was still enough exposure for sponsors re branding on jumpers and around the grounds.

At the end of 2011 the QRL decided to ditch the ABC and move to ch 9 signing a deal in February 2012. The QRL has many teams outside metro Brisbane in their Queensland Cup comp including a PNG team, so the advertising exposure has been great for the league, its sponsors and the clubs and their sponsors.

Every year for the last 5 or 6 before this year there was the usual argy bargy between Sanfl and ABC about the coverage and costs. At the end of 2012 when Koch was appointed Port prez, they also appointed Cos Cardone to the board. Cardone had been a news reporter at ch 9 Adelaide, transferred to 9 Melbourne, then became the producer of The Footy Show and Eddie took Cardone to Sydney to head up the Entertainment division of 9 when he got the 9 CEO job. When Eddie returned to Melbourne he made Cardone CEO of McGuire media.

In 2013 when Port and the crows were negotiating reserves sides in the Sanfl and Port wanted to maintain their Magpie structure Cardone and McGuire media said they would package up a TV production and go and find advertising sponsors to underwrite costs, but only if the 2 afl teams could have stand alone teams in the Sanfl. Cos obviously was looking out for Port as part of the deal. McGuire media negotiated with 9 and 7. They also gave guarantees of x number of games to be on TV that didnt involve the crows or port. 7 won the bid and have had a boom 2014 ratings year.

 

[The_Wookie]

Seven reported to not be happy with the SANFL fixturing, given that its best ratings come from Crows and Power reserves games. The power have been fixtured for six broadcast matches, with Adelaide fixtured for a similar amount i believe. Found the stupid link and then lost it again. will update when i find it.

Also

http://www.afc.com.au/news/2014-10-01/crows-top-sanfl-ratings

Adelaide’s only SANFL home game of the year was the most watched minor round match of 2014.

The inaugural SANFL Showdown, which was held in the Mid-North community of Clare in May, pulled an average television audience of 64,072 viewers on Channel 7.

The rating was a record for a minor round SANFL broadcast since the current television ratings system was introduced in 2001.

The match also attracted 5,312 spectators through the gates of Clare Oval in what was Taylor Walker’s second game back since a knee reconstruction.

Fans continued to tune in to watch the Crows throughout their maiden SANFL season following the Round Five spectacle. Stats revealed three of the top five most watched SANFL minor round matches involved Adelaide.

The Round 14 SANFL Showdown at Alberton exceeded 50,000 viewers, while a huge average audience of 40,251 saw the SANFL Crows notch a 48-point victory over eventual finalists Woodville-West Torrens.

Ratings improved across the board in 2014 in what was the start of a new era for the local competition. Channel 7’s SANFL broadcasts averaged a total of 31,364 viewers throughout the premiership season, which was nearly double the average audience recorded for 2013.

The network will continue to broadcast SANFL action until at least the end of the 2016 season.

SANFL minor round matches exceeding 30,000 viewers

Round 5 – Adelaide v Port Adelaide, 64,072 (Channel 7)
Round 1 – Norwood v Port Adelaide, 54,884 (Channel 7)
Round 14 – Port Adelaide v Adelaide, 53,245 (Channel 7)
Round 3 – South Adelaide v Glenelg, 53,003 (Channel 7)
Round 9 – Eagles v Adelaide, 40,251 (Channel 7)
Round 4 – Central District v South Adelaide, 35,265 (Channel 7)
Round 7 – Port Adelaide v South Adelaide, 34,167 (Channel 7)
Round 6 - Eagles v Glenelg, 34,066 (Channel 7)
Round 2 – Central v Norwood, 32,762 (Channel 7)
Round 15 – North Adelaide v Norwood, 32,511 (Channel 7)
Round 8 – West Adelaide v Glenelg, 32,081 (Channel 7)

 

[RUNVS]

I have been thinking about it and I think the AFL should test the waters a little bit with online TV and do a deal with youtube to broadcast some games or every game live on youtube. See how successful it is. I mean youtube already do live streaming for concerts and some sporting events as well so it is not beyond the realms of imagining.

It would also mean when the AFL put the adverts into the broadcast on youtube that is money that goes directly to them.

https://www.youtube.com/yt/playbook/yt-analytics.html

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I have been thinking about it and I think the AFL should test the waters a little bit with online TV and do a deal with youtube to broadcast some games or every game live on youtube. See how successful it is. I mean youtube already do live streaming for concerts and some sporting events as well so it is not beyond the realms of imagining.

It would also mean when the AFL put the adverts into the broadcast on youtube that is money that goes directly to them.

https://www.youtube.com/yt/playbook/yt-analytics.html

Until the NBN is up and running all over the country and tested and their broadcast is TV quality I wouldnt subscribe. watching sports on shit quality streaming is rubbish. If they tested the waters they couldnt charge for it IMO.

The AFL has been talking about using the NBN since 2011.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Andy D speaking to academic website The Conversation in a long interview in August 2011 - from about 1/3rd of the way thru.

http://theconversation.com/afl-boss...ing-to-control-as-much-as-we-can-control-2812
....
The broadcasting became very sophisticated because it represents 60% or 70% of our revenue. I often say to people that when I started as CEO in 2003, we had half a strategic planner. Today I have five. Five people working on our business, whether it is yield management or stadium returns or broadcast rights.

We are already planning for our next broadcast rights in five years and we’ve only just finished the last one. That is how sophisticated it has become. Where are the next revenue streams coming from and what is the next big ticket item?

We have just set up our own media company. We’ve set up our own production company. We’ve got our own publishing arm and that is all about preparation for the next broadcast rights because we may decide with the advent of the NBN to sell direct to the consumer. We might control our content more. We might work across various platforms.

We are trying to control as much as we can control and not deal with as many third parties. That is where I see upside in the revenue......

http://theconversation.com/afl-boss...ing-to-control-as-much-as-we-can-control-2812

 

[RUNVS]

Until the NBN is up and running all over the country and tested and their broadcast is TV quality I wouldnt subscribe. watching sports on shit quality streaming is rubbish. If they tested the waters they couldnt charge for it IMO.

The AFL has been talking about using the NBN since 2011.

I am not suggesting they charge for it. Due to the fact that the quality will only be as good as a standard youtube video no one is going to not buy Foxtel and simply watch the games on youtube but it will give people who do not have foxtel and can't afford it the opportunity to watch all the games live if they wish. Plus it will mean the AFL is dipping their toe into the live streaming waters. The information that youtube provide in regards to who is watching the videos every second and what parts of the stream they are watching would prove really useful for the AFL in the future for when the internet is good enough to stream a full AFL game on HD onto your TV.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I am not suggesting they charge for it. Due to the fact that the quality will only be as good as a standard youtube video no one is going to not buy Foxtel and simply watch the games on youtube but it will give people who do not have foxtel and can't afford it the opportunity to watch all the games live if they wish. Plus it will mean the AFL is dipping their toe into the live streaming waters. The information that youtube provide in regards to who is watching the videos every second and what parts of the stream they are watching would prove really useful for the AFL in the future for when the internet is good enough to stream a full AFL game on HD onto your TV.

They are doing stuff now re live streaming - but not thru youtube yet. I have watched 3 concerts live streaming thru youtube - mainly good quality most of the time, but not as good as free or pay TV broadcasts.

Clubs are offering international club members as well as those who live in Oz can buy club digital membership passes. Here is what Port are offering which I assume all or most clubs are offering.

Domestic digital
http://www.weareportadelaide.com.au/memberships-2015/domestic-digital/

International membership - with live streaming
http://www.weareportadelaide.com.au/memberships-2015/international-membership/

 

[RUNVS]

They are doing stuff now re live streaming - but not thru youtube yet. I have watched 3 concerts live streaming thru youtube - mainly good quality most of the time, but not as good as free or pay TV broadcasts.

Clubs are offering international club members as well as those who live in Oz can buy club digital membership passes. Here is what Port are offering which I assume all or most clubs are offering.

Domestic digital
http://www.weareportadelaide.com.au/memberships-2015/domestic-digital/

International membership - with live streaming
http://www.weareportadelaide.com.au/memberships-2015/international-membership/

That is true but the AFL streaming on the AFL website is vastly inferior to the streaming you get on youtube. Youtube you can stream easily with a standard ADSL broadband connection but with the AFL website realistically you need ADSL2+ in order for it to work properly. Plus youtube has all the features the AFL would love about analysing how many people are watching and what parts of the coverage they are watching as well.

I genuinely believe in 10 years time there will be an international company (possibly youtube itself) that will broadcast a lot of sports all around the world directly to a person high definition television. With that there will be a complex mathematical formula involving how many people are watching at any given time, how many people are still watching during the ads as well as the demographics of every person watching. TV rights deals as we know it will be gone and instead every sport will be paid what each individual game is worth based on how many people are watching during the ad breaks.

In a way it could help the A-League a lot as they would have the exact same formula the AFL do for determining how much youtube give them for each broadcast but the A-League might have more people watching in Asia at the same time which would push the value of each game up.

 

[bigleague]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-please-gillon-mclachlan-20150110-12lgbk.html

While memberships are up, the big-ticket item of the year the AFL wants significantly to increase is the broadcast rights. The current five-year contract does not expire until the end of 2016 but the new deal is expected to be done by December this year.

Channel Seven, Foxtel and Telstra (digital) hold the current rights, but the AFL is believed to be supportive of having another free-to-air network involved.

Ten chief Hamish McLennan has expressed interest but his immediate focus is on the struggling network's auction process. The broadcaster is analysing four takeover proposals, including a joint Foxtel and Discover Communications bid.

The AFL hopes to secure a five-year deal of about $1.7 billion, up from the current $1.25 billion, a figure Channel Nine boss David Gyngell, already with the NRL and international cricket in his stable, has described as "a complete joke".

"The rights talks haven't really got going but, obviously, this is the year it'll happen. It'll happen whenever it happens, but we're obviously very confident and look forward to doing the deal this year," McLachlan said.

"Historically, it's always been done by December, so everyone's got a year to plan."

The value of live sport cannot be underestimated, particularly for a network, such as Ten, which lacks a major winter sporting code. Ten has experienced another strong summer thanks to its coverage of cricket's Big Bash League, regularly winning the top spot in its timeslot in the demographics of total people audience, people 25 to 54, under 55s and men 25 to 54.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/football_federation_australia_considers_6Sbp6yuyOwFXedHamwtiPI

If Ten bids for the A-League and nab them, who would get punted to a secondary channel when the Big Bash is on? Based on current ratings figures you'd assume it would be the A-League. Similar questions for 7 during the Aus Open weeks and AFL season months. I've no doubt the A-League would get better ratings on a commercial station than they get on SBS, but how much of an uplift are they expecting if they want to double the rights?

 

[Jim Dixon]

http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/football_federation_australia_considers_6Sbp6yuyOwFXedHamwtiPI

If Ten bids for the A-League and nab them, who would get punted to a secondary channel when the Big Bash is on? Based on current ratings figures you'd assume it would be the A-League. Similar questions for 7 during the Aus Open weeks and AFL season months. I've no doubt the A-League would get better ratings on a commercial station than they get on SBS, but how much of an uplift are they expecting if they want to double the rights?

As the great Dennis Cometti would say, "That's ambitious!"

Things only get played on SBS anyway when the main networks don't want them. If I was Ten, I'd be demanding the rights for less then what SBS are paying, not more, and as for double....FFA getting ahead of themselves a bit, I think.

 

[bigleague]

http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/football_federation_australia_considers_6Sbp6yuyOwFXedHamwtiPI

If Ten bids for the A-League and nab them, who would get punted to a secondary channel when the Big Bash is on? Based on current ratings figures you'd assume it would be the A-League. Similar questions for 7 during the Aus Open weeks and AFL season months. I've no doubt the A-League would get better ratings on a commercial station than they get on SBS, but how much of an uplift are they expecting if they want to double the rights?

Foxsports won't open negotiations early unless it benefits them, so I can't see how the FFA would increase their broadcast revenue, yet alone double it. If News Corp were to gain a share in Ten, foxsports could just onsell the aleague to them, they aren't going to break early and risk Ten driving up the price when they could wait a year and own a share in Ten.

FFA ratings are still poor and FTA networks aren't going to pay through the nose for fill content for multichannels. Seven had the allstar v liverpool game and it's ratings were still pretty ordinary. The goodwill in the media toward the a-league, whereby the poor ratings aren't being scrutinised, has created a false public perception of the value of the a-league broadcast rights which the FFA are exploiting to talk themselves up, I can't see where the extra $40m p.a. in value is supposed to come from.

 

[RUNVS]

Foxsports won't open negotiations early unless it benefits them, so I can't see how the FFA would increase their broadcast revenue, yet alone double it. If News Corp were to gain a share in Ten, foxsports could just onsell the aleague to them, they aren't going to break early and risk Ten driving up the price when they could wait a year and own a share in Ten.

FFA ratings are still poor and FTA networks aren't going to pay through the nose for fill content for multichannels. Seven had the allstar v liverpool game and it's ratings were still pretty ordinary. The goodwill in the media toward the a-league, whereby the poor ratings aren't being scrutinised, has created a false public perception of the value of the a-league broadcast rights which the FFA are exploiting to talk themselves up, I can't see where the extra $40m p.a. in value is supposed to come from.

Doesn't help that the A-League doesn't have adverts during the game and there are no natural stoppages in the game to put adverts in.

 

[The_Wookie]

Doesn't help that the A-League doesn't have adverts during the game and there are no natural stoppages in the game to put adverts in.

Might have to do what rugby league is considering - moving from halves to quarters to create more ad time.

 

[The_Wookie]

Foxsports won't open negotiations early unless it benefits them, so I can't see how the FFA would increase their broadcast revenue, yet alone double it. If News Corp were to gain a share in Ten, foxsports could just onsell the aleague to them, they aren't going to break early and risk Ten driving up the price when they could wait a year and own a share in Ten.

FFA ratings are still poor and FTA networks aren't going to pay through the nose for fill content for multichannels. Seven had the allstar v liverpool game and it's ratings were still pretty ordinary. The goodwill in the media toward the a-league, whereby the poor ratings aren't being scrutinised, has created a false public perception of the value of the a-league broadcast rights which the FFA are exploiting to talk themselves up, I can't see where the extra $40m p.a. in value is supposed to come from.

Not to mention that fox ratings are flat as a tack over the life of the deal with no increase to justify any more investment on their part.

 

[Jim Dixon]

Everyone in Australia that's interested in soccer is already watching it. There's no more growth in the A-League.

 

[bigleague]

Not to mention that fox ratings are flat as a tack over the life of the deal with no increase to justify any more investment on their part.

Yep, it's not going to happen, there was a quote the other day about Gallop telling clubs of a broadcast revenue forecast of $100m, that's up there with what cricket gets from nine and ten and the aleague is lucky if it gets near a fifth of what cricket rates.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Everyone in Australia that's interested in soccer is already watching it. There's no more growth in the A-League.

There is plenty of growth in soccer viewing in Oz. If kids on average choose soccer over other codes then the the future will be bright re growth. Especially in the most expensive TV advertising market in Sydney if soccer becomes the no.1 footy code in Sydney.

It will be driven in large part by the value of the $AUD in the long run IMO. Oz hasn't had a technical recession since 1991. If that carries on for another 20 years, another China boom re our resources especially LNG - all those $20,30,40 and 50 billion LNG projects come on stream and the $AUD gets back to $1.10-$1.20 USD and 75-85 Euro cents and £1.25-£1.60 pound then great Oz players will come home from Europe earlier and you will get more Del Piero's coming to Oz at 30-32 not 35 years of age. That will lift the standard, which means more interest. Oz has gone from about the 22nd biggest economy in the world to the 12th in less than 25 years. The Oz sports market is probably the 8th biggest in the world. If soccer can get the Socceroos to regularly be a top 10 nation and the A League considered to be as good as anything outside the big 6 Euro leagues and maybe the 2 or 3 big South American leagues then there is big upside. But it wont happen quickly and it wont be easy and a shit load of money will have to be spent.