List Mgmt. The 2024 Draft (Nov 20/21)

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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Drafted

• Bo Allan - Pick 16
• Jobe Shanahan - Pick 30
• Tom Gross - Pick 46
• Lucca Grego - Pick 48
• Hamish Davis - Pick 65
• Malakai Champion - Cat B

List Spots Available

• One on either main OR rookie list to be filled as a SSP selection following train on assessments

Trade and draft period

In: F1, F2, F3, Baker, Owies, Graham, Allan, Shanahan, Gross, Grego, Davis, Champion
Out: 3, 63, F3, F4, Barrass, Darling

 

[stallon]

Allen turned in too many passive games last year to be captain. Too many responses like "The leadership group needs to own this" and then we put in another 2 quarter effort next week. The talent is there, but he's not in the same class as Curnow, Cameron, Hogan, Lynch (healthy), Daniher, Larkey etc. He's had an almost career so far and probably won't age well with the knee issues.
And he can't get fit enough to push up to the wing on long leads like Waterman can and create space behind him for others. I'd rather we put time into Reid at 203 and Williams at 200 at FF and see what happens.

Could argue that theres is only so much he can do as a KPF to impact games that are lost in the midfield(almost all of our losses).
Most of those other KPFs you listed are playing in strong sides with good midfields delivering silver service, Allen has our rabble sending it forward. Its not really comparable at all

 

[Goomba1973]

That would be a HUGE call, I dont think we would push him out. Hes a WA local, Wce fan as a kid, captain of the club, etc. Would be a very bad look if he left via FA when we could have kept him as a restricted free agent. What sort of message does it send to the rest of the players, fans and prospective future players?

Our best bet was letting Waterman explore a trade this year, but that wasnt to be. Idk how we get Archer into the side unless we find a way to run with 4 talls in the forward line, or convert somebody to another role, like KPD or potentially Waterman plays further up the ground on a wing(if his 2024 form was a purple patch).

Jack Williams could swing back as a tall defender and have Waterman and Archer as our two talls in he forward line. Keep Waterman closer to goal .

 

[Monsterdarlz]

Wouldn’t be against trialling Archer and Jilliams as a 50/50 foward ruck split during games

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Could argue that theres is only so much he can do as a KPF to impact games that are lost in the midfield(almost all of our losses).
Most of those other KPFs you listed are playing in strong sides with good midfields delivering silver service, Allen has our rabble sending it forward. Its not really comparable at all

His defensive efforts were deplorable last year, given he wasn’t the only one, but as captain you expect better.

If he wasn’t captain, I think the club would entertain the idea and see how long we can leave the contract into the year, before making a decision. See where we are on the ladder, get an idea of compensation and see what Warner or other targets are doing.

 

[stallon]

His defensive efforts were deplorable last year, given he wasn’t the only one, but as captain you expect better.

If he wasn’t captain, I think the club would entertain the idea and see how long we can leave the contract into the year, before making a decision. See where we are on the ladder, get an idea of compensation and see what Warner or other targets are doing.

I agree with bolded, him being captain now makes it hard to do.
Id still be open to it though if Allen doesnt have an outstanding year and we can get a top 5 pick for him. Providing that we can trust our other 3 KPFs to perform still.
Waterman needs to back up 2024, J.Williams needs to keep improving, and Archer needs to really be pushing for game time.

 

[Mattman93]

Twomey doesn't really 'link' us with Shanahan or any of the players he names; he's asked about us, doesn't seem to have much of a firm idea, and just rattles off the handful of best players likely available around our pick.

Think we can disregard.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

I'm thinking we will draft only 4 players including Champion and sign up 2 SSP players.
We need to hit next year's draft hard (including F/S & next gen academy players), with possibly more players traded in. So we need to be flexible in regards to list spots and not have extra players signed past 2025.

 

[Keys]

Set play should be Dewar to Cat A if there is even a remote chance Champion gets through to Cat B and select Max Knobel at pick 3 in the rookie draft.

That would leave 6 spots that could be split between the main list, Cat A rookies and DFA/SSP. I think 3 ND picks, another Cat A rookie and Carroll, Burgiel via the DFA/SSP is most likely at this stage.

Upgrading Dewar from Cat B to the rookie list is an unnecessary risk. If a bid comes for Champion then we will have achieved nothing other than cost ourselves a list spot for no other benefit

Leave Dewar as a Cat B

If no bid comes for Champion then select him with our last pick in the main draft

Or with our first pick in the rookie draft unless we are considering Knobel like you’ve suggested

 

[Keys]

If Josh Smillie slid all the way to our pick, would people be happy about that?

It’s unlikely, but possible

Ignoring FS/academy bids :

1 - Lalor (Richmond)
2 - Tauru (North can’t find a buyer for 2 but go a KPP over a mid anyway)
3 - O’Sullivan (Carlton)
4 - Draper (Adelaide)
5 - Smith (Melbourne)
6 - Reid (Richmond - complimentary mid for Lalor)
7 - Armstrong (St Kilda - need a KPF to support King)
8 - Travaglia (St Kilda)
9 - Allan (Melbourne are rumoured to be keen)
10 - Langford (Richmond to round out their midfield)
11 - Shanahan (Richmond - next best KPF and might not want to risk him lasting to 18, already have 3 mids. Alternatively they go Lindsay)
12 - Smillie (West Coast)

Relies heavily on North going early on Tauru and also Melbourne going Allan over Smillie/Langford

Richmond could pick Smillie over Langford which only means Langford then slides to our pick instead

Personally think it would be an unanticipated bonus and go some way to repairing the damage of trading pick 3 (good luck rather than good planning to be fair)

Happy for anyone to point out flaws in my logic

 

[Goomba1973]

If Josh Smillie slid all the way to our pick, would people be happy about that?

It’s unlikely, but possible

Ignoring FS/academy bids :

1 - Lalor (Richmond)
2 - Tauru (North can’t find a buyer for 2 but go a KPP over a mid anyway)
3 - O’Sullivan (Carlton)
4 - Draper (Adelaide)
5 - Smith (Melbourne)
6 - Reid (Richmond - complimentary mid for Lalor)
7 - Armstrong (St Kilda - need a KPF to support King)
8 - Travaglia (St Kilda)
9 - Allan (Melbourne are rumoured to be keen)
10 - Langford (Richmond to round out their midfield)
11 - Shanahan (Richmond - next best KPF and might not want to risk him lasting to 18, already have 3 mids. Alternatively they go Lindsay)
12 - Smillie (West Coast)

Relies heavily on North going early on Tauru and also Melbourne going Allan over Smillie/Langford

Richmond could pick Smillie over Langford which only means Langford then slides to our pick instead

Personally think it would be an unanticipated bonus and go some way to repairing the damage of trading pick 3 (good luck rather than good planning to be fair)

Happy for anyone to point out flaws in my logic

I would happy with Smillie if he slides to our first pick.

 

[stallon]

If Josh Smillie slid all the way to our pick, would people be happy about that?

It’s unlikely, but possible

Ignoring FS/academy bids :

1 - Lalor (Richmond)
2 - Tauru (North can’t find a buyer for 2 but go a KPP over a mid anyway)
3 - O’Sullivan (Carlton)
4 - Draper (Adelaide)
5 - Smith (Melbourne)
6 - Reid (Richmond - complimentary mid for Lalor)
7 - Armstrong (St Kilda - need a KPF to support King)
8 - Travaglia (St Kilda)
9 - Allan (Melbourne are rumoured to be keen)
10 - Langford (Richmond to round out their midfield)
11 - Shanahan (Richmond - next best KPF and might not want to risk him lasting to 18, already have 3 mids. Alternatively they go Lindsay)
12 - Smillie (West Coast)

Relies heavily on North going early on Tauru and also Melbourne going Allan over Smillie/Langford

Richmond could pick Smillie over Langford which only means Langford then slides to our pick instead

Personally think it would be an unanticipated bonus and go some way to repairing the damage of trading pick 3 (good luck rather than good planning to be fair)

Happy for anyone to point out flaws in my logic

Hes not really who I want, but I feel we'd be forced to take him as best available. Would be a good get if that was the final result for sure. He could really go at pick 3 too and he is a mid, so from that perspective we havent lost much by going down the order.
He would be more or less what we wanted Ginbey to be as a mid, which is fine.

Id rather Allan or Travaglia if they were there too, but Smillie probably a touch ahead of Lindsay for me.

Smillie + Oliver + Davis/Moraes + Champion would be my preference in the draft in lieu of a KPD if we take 4 picks and Smillie. Want some more outside ball use/run.
Go in with the full intention of getting Rodriguez and Curtin next year to round out the squad.

 

[We_The_West]

If Josh Smillie slid all the way to our pick, would people be happy about that?

It’s unlikely, but possible

Ignoring FS/academy bids :

1 - Lalor (Richmond)
2 - Tauru (North can’t find a buyer for 2 but go a KPP over a mid anyway)
3 - O’Sullivan (Carlton)
4 - Draper (Adelaide)
5 - Smith (Melbourne)
6 - Reid (Richmond - complimentary mid for Lalor)
7 - Armstrong (St Kilda - need a KPF to support King)
8 - Travaglia (St Kilda)
9 - Allan (Melbourne are rumoured to be keen)
10 - Langford (Richmond to round out their midfield)
11 - Shanahan (Richmond - next best KPF and might not want to risk him lasting to 18, already have 3 mids. Alternatively they go Lindsay)
12 - Smillie (West Coast)

Relies heavily on North going early on Tauru and also Melbourne going Allan over Smillie/Langford

Richmond could pick Smillie over Langford which only means Langford then slides to our pick instead

Personally think it would be an unanticipated bonus and go some way to repairing the damage of trading pick 3 (good luck rather than good planning to be fair)

Happy for anyone to point out flaws in my logic

I think it all depends on what WC's strategy is with it's first pick, whether it's draft the best available talent or pick based on position/role.

If Smillie is available at our first pick (and this is viewed as a big slider of high value), does WC draft Smillie with the thought that current players on our list can fill other roles? E.g. Would it be worth considering developing Hewett in the half back/distributor role that Daicos and Sheezel played in their first years?

Alternatively, if clubs view Smillie as a high value slider, what live trades would WC be able to entertain to slide back a few spots and bring in another R2 pick. Richmond and GWS would be ideal for this scenario

 

[stallon]

I think it all depends on what WC's strategy is with it's first pick, whether it's draft the best available talent or pick based on position/role.

If Smillie is available at our first pick (and this is viewed as a big slider of high value), does WC draft Smillie with the thought that current players on our list can fill other roles? E.g. Would it be worth considering developing Hewett in the half back/distributor role that Daicos and Sheezel played in their first years?

More likely to put Smillie at half back than Hewett imo. Those explosive mids are probably better off sitting forward if not in the middle. Smillie has a nicer kick on him too that could be nice at half back for a year if we dont want to give him bulk mid minutes in his first year.
Really we should look elsewhere for a half back distributor imo.

Smillie definitely makes the midfield mix a bit awkward. Having Reid, Hewett and Smillie in there at once is a bit too young, Id guess Reid and Hewett are the ones to spend time forward to make it work with Yeo, Kelly and Graham.

Smillie, Reid, Hewett does sound like a good combo in 3-4 years time though.

Alternatively, if clubs view Smillie as a high value slider, what live trades would WC be able to entertain to slide back a few spots and bring in another R2 pick. Richmond and GWS would be ideal for this scenario

Dont like the idea of sliding either, unless we can go back just the 1 spot to still take Lindsay lol. The 15-20 area of the draft is pretty meh imo, at least for us. A lot of talls and players who could be picked in the 20s.
You start looking at a guy like Hynes as our first pick, kind of yuk.

 

[We_The_West]

More likely to put Smillie at half back than Hewett imo. Those explosive mids are probably better off sitting forward if not in the middle. Smillie has a nicer kick on him too that could be nice at half back for a year if we dont want to give him bulk mid minutes in his first year.
Really we should look elsewhere for a half back distributor imo.

Smillie definitely makes the midfield mix a bit awkward. Having Reid, Hewett and Smillie in there at once is a bit too young, Id guess Reid and Hewett are the ones to spend time forward to make it work with Yeo, Kelly and Graham.

Smillie, Reid, Hewett does sound like a good combo in 3-4 years time though.

Dont like the idea of sliding either, unless we can go back just the 1 spot to still take Lindsay lol. The 15-20 area of the draft is pretty meh imo, at least for us. A lot of talls and players who could be picked in the 20s.
You start looking at a guy like Hynes as our first pick, kind of yuk.

My issue with having Smillie as a mid is not his ability to impact clearance, it is post clearance that concerns me.

The importance of team defense and two way running in the modern game can't be played down, and this is what worries me about Smillie as his speed and endurance have question marks.

I already worry that Reid is not a 2 way runners or defensively minded, and there are not many balanced 195cm mids that have made it in the AFL. I can think of Cripps, Bont and Blakey, with Jarrod Berry and Noah Anderson at 192cm....

I agree and think the 15-25 area of the draft is not appealing types of players for us, I think there will be a plethora of great value pick ups in the 25-50 range.

We also drafted Clay Hall and Jack Hutchinson (both 190cm) who are projected to play mid and both we have barely seen and have large upside.

Call me crazy but I really hope the outside player we are pinning our hopes and dreams on is already on our list.

Brady Hough

Brady Hough Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

This man is a gun lockdown defender, but we need to unleash his 191cm frame into the midfield.

** We also have a string bean 196cm Ryan Maric with elite skills who could chug down some protein powder and develop into Darcy Moore.

 

[eaglevision]

Upgrading Dewar from Cat B to the rookie list is an unnecessary risk. If a bid comes for Champion then we will have achieved nothing other than cost ourselves a list spot for no other benefit

Leave Dewar as a Cat B

If no bid comes for Champion then select him with our last pick in the main draft

Or with our first pick in the rookie draft unless we are considering Knobel like you’ve suggested

I’ve just checked the updated list size rule (see above) and can see the risk you’re referring to there Keys . We do have Evans next year who almost certainly will need that Cat B spot anyway, have the flexibility to upgrade Maric if we’d rather an extra Cat A rookie as opposed to a late selection in the draft and if we can get Champion as a Cat B he can remain there for years, freeing up another another list spot for the duration of that time.

In saying that you’re 100% correct in that it does mean we’d be one Cat A spot short that we could have otherwise used in 2025 should a bid come for Champion at any stage.

Can’t find anything concrete about matching in the Rookie draft but do remember Laura saying something about it in an interview. I’d rather take Champion with a R5 pick in the national draft than use pick 3 in the Rookie draft on him.

If Josh Smillie slid all the way to our pick, would people be happy about that?

It’s unlikely, but possible

Ignoring FS/academy bids :

1 - Lalor (Richmond)
2 - Tauru (North can’t find a buyer for 2 but go a KPP over a mid anyway)
3 - O’Sullivan (Carlton)
4 - Draper (Adelaide)
5 - Smith (Melbourne)
6 - Reid (Richmond - complimentary mid for Lalor)
7 - Armstrong (St Kilda - need a KPF to support King)
8 - Travaglia (St Kilda)
9 - Allan (Melbourne are rumoured to be keen)
10 - Langford (Richmond to round out their midfield)
11 - Shanahan (Richmond - next best KPF and might not want to risk him lasting to 18, already have 3 mids. Alternatively they go Lindsay)
12 - Smillie (West Coast)

Relies heavily on North going early on Tauru and also Melbourne going Allan over Smillie/Langford

Richmond could pick Smillie over Langford which only means Langford then slides to our pick instead

Personally think it would be an unanticipated bonus and go some way to repairing the damage of trading pick 3 (good luck rather than good planning to be fair)

Happy for anyone to point out flaws in my logic

Smillie is the most likely top mid to slide IMO. Still think Saints take a mid and Travaglia at 7/8 and believe Reid is their preference which will be influenced by wha Richmind does at 6. Would be very happy to take Smillie at 12 but may also be a great trade down opportunity with Port, Freo or GWS to still get Lindsay and some other good picks.

 

[Obeanie1]

Edwards makes 11 changes.

Simmo wrong again predicting 10.

He didnt know six months ago that L Edwards was going to medically retire?

 

[ziad]

I agree with bolded, him being captain now makes it hard to do.
Id still be open to it though if Allen doesnt have an outstanding year and we can get a top 5 pick for him. Providing that we can trust our other 3 KPFs to perform still.
Waterman needs to back up 2024, J.Williams needs to keep improving, and Archer needs to really be pushing for game time.

If his lack of defensive effort is not injury related or his injury can not be rectified he is a prime trade option. I suspect ist an injury issue, and wonder why he had a 6 week holiday before heading to the ME? Not captains stuff!

 

[ziad]

He didnt know six months ago that L Edwards was going to medically retire?

I read Edwards (L) hasn't medically retired but is taking 12 months out of the game - what's the list issue?

 

[Mulldogg]

So with the delisted free agent period opening today is there a chance we could have Jack Carroll and/or Jaxon Prior on our list by the end of next week?

 

[Obeanie1]

My issue with having Smillie as a mid is not his ability to impact clearance, it is post clearance that concerns me.

The importance of team defense and two way running in the modern game can't be played down, and this is what worries me about Smillie as his speed and endurance have question marks.

I already worry that Reid is not a 2 way runners or defensively minded, and there are not many balanced 195cm mids that have made it in the AFL. I can think of Cripps, Bont and Blakey, with Jarrod Berry and Noah Anderson at 192cm....

I agree and think the 15-25 area of the draft is not appealing types of players for us, I think there will be a plethora of great value pick ups in the 25-50 range.

We also drafted Clay Hall and Jack Hutchinson (both 190cm) who are projected to play mid and both we have barely seen and have large upside.

Call me crazy but I really hope the outside player we are pinning our hopes and dreams on is already on our list.

Brady Hough

Brady Hough Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

This man ise wingte a gun lockdown defender, but we need to unleash his 191cm frame into the midfield.

** We also have a string bean 196cm Ryan Maric with elite skills who could chug down some protein powder and develop into Darcy Moore.

Hough to the wing playing further up the ground is something we should look at at some point. Especially if Ginbey end up back.

 

[Obeanie1]

It's not so much luck as poor list management I think.

Gov is coming off an AA year so you'd think he's unlikely to call it quits next year just because he's getting old, so not really any opportunity down back until 2027 or later in Edwards and Bazzo work out. Already cooked Branders career due to having no prospects in key position, have wasted half of Jake Waterman's career, had to turn Bailey Williams into a ruck, will yet likely waste Jack Williams career as floats between WAFL and 2nd ruck duties for the next 6-7 years. Have Harry Barnett signed up for 2 more years also needing to learn a new position with key back being the only option for him if he doesn't come on as a suck.

If you are Archer Reid, probably the 2nd best tall forward option in his draft year who we drafted purely on the basis of him being best available and not out of need, why would you spend the next 2-3 years developing as a key back in the WAFL when you could develop as a forward instead then get yourself a trade back to Victoria to a club that actually needs a forward? His contract is going to be up for renewal before he's a chance of breaking into the side in ANY position so why ruin what could be a career up forward when you can just elect not sign a contract extension and go somewhere else instead?

He signed an extension.

Maric is being p2layed on the wing. IMO would be an excellent intercept 3rd defender at 196cm.

Focusing on the talls early in a rebuild is smart drafting. Not all will make it. We currently have a few who cant all play in the main 22 at the same time. Injury and form takes care of that. And having 6 talls fighting for 3 or 4 spots. Is also a good thing.

If our problem is we have 6 talls fully fit, in form and pushing hard to make the best 22. How is that a bad problem?

 

[6285sutto]

These comments of moving Hough to the mid field seem like crazy talk to me. We finally find someone can play/excell in the lock down role and you want to move him ? Who would replace him ? Ryan? Reminds me of putting Allen in the ruck when he m started becoming a good forward and booting bags of goals.

 

[We_The_West]

These comments of moving Hough to the mid field seem like crazy talk to me. We finally find someone can play/excell in the lock down role and you want to move him ? Who would replace him ? Ryan? Reminds me of putting Allen in the ruck when he m started becoming a good forward and booting bags of goals.

He wasn't drafted as a lockdown defender and he has many attributes that make him a quality outside player.

We've got Tommy Cole and Liam Baker as lockdown small defenders and Ginbeast to lockdown any resting rucks.

If you watch/read about Hough's U18 campaign you'll see he influenced games playing inside/outside mid between the arcs and creating off half back.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Interesting re. Shanahan. I agree with you about needs. But from a purely personal perspective I would be stoked to pick Jobe.
He is IMO the best key forward in the draft and TBH I would place him at a level above Archer Reid as a KPF option, despite him being drafted a year later than Reid. What this would mean for Reid, I'm not sure, but Jobe is genuinely menacing in marking contests and I don't think it will take long for him to stamp himself at AFL level.
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I agree, I think he's better than Armstrong. He's a gun and what he was able to do at VFL level this year, shows how ready he is. Fantastic prospect.

Archer for me, his best is right up there and he's got a full bag of tricks but he just lacks consistency. Compared to Shanahan, who is ultra consistent and rarely has a bad game!
If Archer can find consistency, I think he'll be a very good player and I also like when he goes into the ruck because he's so athletic and has good skills he's very very hand playing through the middle. Trouble is they don't always find that consistency...

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

If Josh Smillie slid all the way to our pick, would people be happy about that?

It’s unlikely, but possible

Ignoring FS/academy bids :

1 - Lalor (Richmond)
2 - Tauru (North can’t find a buyer for 2 but go a KPP over a mid anyway)
3 - O’Sullivan (Carlton)
4 - Draper (Adelaide)
5 - Smith (Melbourne)
6 - Reid (Richmond - complimentary mid for Lalor)
7 - Armstrong (St Kilda - need a KPF to support King)
8 - Travaglia (St Kilda)
9 - Allan (Melbourne are rumoured to be keen)
10 - Langford (Richmond to round out their midfield)
11 - Shanahan (Richmond - next best KPF and might not want to risk him lasting to 18, already have 3 mids. Alternatively they go Lindsay)
12 - Smillie (West Coast)

Relies heavily on North going early on Tauru and also Melbourne going Allan over Smillie/Langford

Richmond could pick Smillie over Langford which only means Langford then slides to our pick instead

Personally think it would be an unanticipated bonus and go some way to repairing the damage of trading pick 3 (good luck rather than good planning to be fair)

Happy for anyone to point out flaws in my logic

Fair call that one of the top mids may just slide. I would be happy with Smillie at 12.

A few thoughts.

1. I’m not expecting Hewett to come back and play much as a midfielder. He has not had the running capacity in the last 3 years to build the endurance. If fit, I’d be playing him as a high half forward who can come up to contests as an extra mid.

2. Harley is best as a burst player. Like Dusty, some of his damaging work is when he goes forward.

3. Smillie looks to be ready to play day 1.

4. Graham and Baker give us mature bodies to play with Yeo as the seasoned midfields. Duggan can also join in with that crew. I’d be wanting Hutchinson to be given time as well (albeit based on a half a game at the Cattery)

5. Kelly plays more an outside role which is what he did so well at Geelong.

6. I’d be inclined to let Ginbey settle and really blossom off the half back in 2025 then step up to the midfield in 2026. His progress in confidence and impact was impressive when moved back.

7. Maric - I really like him delivering the ball to our forwards and hence him as the distribution off half back makes great sense and we look congested for talls in the forward line.

Biggest thing will be what Mini wants to stamp our brand with.

While the slide was not popular, pick 12 should offer one of Smillie, Travaglia, Langford, Allan or Lindsay. All would be useful additions. We need volume and quality so a singular pick is not the panacea that Harley was.