List Mgmt. The 2024 Draft (Nov 20/21)

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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Drafted

• Bo Allan - Pick 16
• Jobe Shanahan - Pick 30
• Tom Gross - Pick 46
• Lucca Grego - Pick 48
• Hamish Davis - Pick 65
• Malakai Champion - Cat B

List Spots Available

• One on either main OR rookie list to be filled as a SSP selection following train on assessments

Trade and draft period

In: F1, F2, F3, Baker, Owies, Graham, Allan, Shanahan, Gross, Grego, Davis, Champion
Out: 3, 63, F3, F4, Barrass, Darling

 

[stallon]

I think the appetite for the talls is going to be the only hope. Can’t see any side taking Hotton or Berry before Travaglia. Freo would probably take Berry but it won’t matter at 14. IF he gets past St Kilda I think it comes down to Shanahan being the difference between getting Travaglia and Lindsay.

Too many talls in that 18-14 area for Richmond, and the Saints have later picks + their NGA to get talls. Might not be that much appetite for talls unfortunately
Youd think Tauru and Armstrong go before us for sure, but I think we are up against it to get another one befor eus.

Hopefully North split so they can take one without reaching, and need Richmond/Melb to be really keen on a KPF each I think.

 

[stallon]

You're the man, Stallon!

all good mate

 

[BeornJ]

This is a nonsense argument.

At the end of the day we won 2 more games in 2024, but had more 100 point losses so it's hardly a big difference. In fact it seems like being a "much better side" meant we kicked a grand total of 29 extra goals for the season. Whats that a tad over 1 more a game?

The Eagles in 2023 had no trouble scoring and for the most part, the defeats came from conceding great numbers of goals due to missing players down back.

If you look at the output of Allen, Waterman, Darling, Cripps, J Williams and Ryan across 2023/2024, the evidence suggests Allen kicked his 53 being the primary focal point and Waterman kicked his 53 in a team that shared the goals around.

Waterman almost certainly had less opportunity than Allen the year before, most likely because he would have spent far less time just sitting at ff given his superior work rate.

So 2024 Jack kicks same as Oscar 2023 [in 3 less games]

However, in 2024 v 2023

Cripps kicks +11
Ryan +9,
Jack Williams + 11
JD goes slightly backwards -4.
Then Oscar kicks + 9 compared to Waterman 2023 [if we say for arguments sake they swapped roles]

Rough math, the main non full forwards kicked an extra 36 goals compared to last year while the team overall was up 29 goals total. Can't be bothered looking into Long v Dewar and Maric stats and whether midfield kicked more or less and all that.

It's improved forward output but only highlights the fact that the forward line with Oscar in 23 was more one dimensional than it was with Waterman. [Or that comparatively Oscar played more stay at home than Waterman meaning the other forwards were less likely to be hit up as targets]

Huh? Am I misreading this?

We had 5 100+ point losses in 2023 and 0 in 2024.

 

[Altum Volantes]

The club has made a comittment with Oscar.

And you are now suggesting the club turf him out for a comoo pick at the end of 2025.

Well I didn’t think I’d have to really say it, but for your sake - that post was…

 

[sharps24]

If J Williams improves as much this coming season, as he did last season, the other two will be fighting for a supporting role, come mid season and a list spot by years end.

For clarity, as at least 3 people have quoted me here, all I'm saying is history would suggest that in the case all 3 of them are fit [like the back half of this year when Flynn was playing in the 2's] Bailey has still been used as first ruck. He has a huge tank and has played basically 3 seasons straight rucking 70+ % of games and backing that up 7 days later. It's near superhuman durability, and the position is only going to get harder next year as we push players to be fitter than they've been for years.

Sure Flynn looks a more traditional Ruckman, and J Williams is a more talented footballer who has done some nice things in the ruck when pinch hitting in there. I don't know that J Williams has anywhere near the tank to replace Bailey outright, he hasn't shown that yet and who knows if that's even on the cards for him aerobically. I don't think we really want him to replace Bailey either, I'd prefer he spends more time up forward. If he does he does become a #1 ruckman that would be great.

But as it stands its Bailey's spot to lose and to be fair to him, he's never gone into a season having prepared to play the role either. He's also 3 years older than Jack, and even then was the youngest first ruckman in the league this year. For Jack to come in as a 22 year old and hold down that number 1 spot it'd be quite a feat.

 

[sharps24]

Huh? Am I misreading this?

We had 5 100+ point losses in 2023 and 0 in 2024.

No you're right, that was my bad. I knew there was a stat we went backwards in and was going off memory. I think I meant to say we had more games where we scored less than 40 points.

 

[Choogler]

Problem is that when we brought Lamb in, he was trained as a FF, which he wasn't. He was an over-sized mid and should've been training in there.

Just another case of WCE trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

If you draft players because they've had good form in a position they excel in, you train and play them there FFS, not just try to get the best 'talent' onto the list and try to figure out something else with them. Just don't draft them to begin with.

I'm hoping our new coach saw the couple of midfield games Hutchinson played last season. Tough, hard at it, tackling machine and at 190cm could be the bonus big body mid we really need.

 

[Keys]

Worst case scenario for us if all these go before our pick (in no particular order)

• Lalor
• Tauru
• O’Sullivan
• Draper
• Smith
• Langford
• Smillie
• Armstrong
• Travaglia
• Lindsay
• Allan

Leaves us with a choice between Reid, Berry, Hotton or Hynes as the next best non-KPP options. Alternatively, we trade further down with a club wanting to get ahead of the queue for a KPF (Shanahan/Whitlock) or a boner for a Reid/Hotton type

So we need one of Richmond/Melbourne/St Kilda to take one or both of Reid or Shanahan instead of Allan/Lindsay (or in a perfect world Travaglia slides)

Seems unlikely that Trainor, Hotton or Berry go before our pick

It’s going to be a tough watch on draft night waiting to see who falls as the names we’d really like get snapped up

 

[archiemoses]

Worst case scenario for us if all these go before our pick (in no particular order)

• Lalor
• Tauru
• O’Sullivan
• Draper
• Smith
• Langford
• Smillie
• Armstrong
• Travaglia
• Lindsay
• Allan

Leaves us with a choice between Reid, Berry, Hotton or Hynes as the next best non-KPP options. Alternatively, we trade further down with a club wanting to get ahead of the queue for a KPF (Shanahan/Whitlock) or a boner for a Reid/Hotton type

So we need one of Richmond/Melbourne/St Kilda to take one or both of Reid or Shanahan instead of Allan/Lindsay (or in a perfect world Travaglia slides)

Seems unlikely that Trainor, Hotton or Berry go before our pick

It’s going to be a tough watch on draft night waiting to see who falls as the names we’d really like get snapped up

Depressing reading.

 

[maverick001]

I'm hoping our new coach saw the couple of midfield games Hutchinson played last season. Tough, hard at it, tackling machine and at 190cm could be the bonus big body mid we really need.

If the new coach isn't watching the last 10 games of the season he shouldn't be in the job

 

[dajesmac]

I find myself loving Ollie Hannaford and wanting him in blue and gold; whilst accepting it would be pretty silly to draft him at 13 and it's incredibly unlikely he's there at 26.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Worst case scenario for us if all these go before our pick (in no particular order)

• Lalor
• Tauru
• O’Sullivan
• Draper
• Smith
• Langford
• Smillie
• Armstrong
• Travaglia
• Lindsay
• Allan

Leaves us with a choice between Reid, Berry, Hotton or Hynes as the next best non-KPP options. Alternatively, we trade further down with a club wanting to get ahead of the queue for a KPF (Shanahan/Whitlock) or a boner for a Reid/Hotton type

So we need one of Richmond/Melbourne/St Kilda to take one or both of Reid or Shanahan instead of Allan/Lindsay (or in a perfect world Travaglia slides)

Seems unlikely that Trainor, Hotton or Berry go before our pick

It’s going to be a tough watch on draft night waiting to see who falls as the names we’d really like get snapped up

well summarised, feels like a pretty disappointing position to be in having traded out a pick 3 and very good KPD.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Worst case scenario for us if all these go before our pick (in no particular order)

• Lalor
• Tauru
• O’Sullivan
• Draper
• Smith
• Langford
• Smillie
• Armstrong
• Travaglia
• Lindsay
• Allan

Leaves us with a choice between Reid, Berry, Hotton or Hynes as the next best non-KPP options. Alternatively, we trade further down with a club wanting to get ahead of the queue for a KPF (Shanahan/Whitlock) or a boner for a Reid/Hotton type

So we need one of Richmond/Melbourne/St Kilda to take one or both of Reid or Shanahan instead of Allan/Lindsay (or in a perfect world Travaglia slides)

Seems unlikely that Trainor, Hotton or Berry go before our pick

It’s going to be a tough watch on draft night waiting to see who falls as the names we’d really like get snapped up

That would be grounds for sliding back and doing a 12 and 26 swap with GWS to get 15 and 22 and one of their later picks

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

Worst case scenario for us if all these go before our pick (in no particular order)

• Lalor
• Tauru
• O’Sullivan
• Draper
• Smith
• Langford
• Smillie
• Armstrong
• Travaglia
• Lindsay
• Allan

Leaves us with a choice between Reid, Berry, Hotton or Hynes as the next best non-KPP options. Alternatively, we trade further down with a club wanting to get ahead of the queue for a KPF (Shanahan/Whitlock) or a boner for a Reid/Hotton type

So we need one of Richmond/Melbourne/St Kilda to take one or both of Reid or Shanahan instead of Allan/Lindsay (or in a perfect world Travaglia slides)

Seems unlikely that Trainor, Hotton or Berry go before our pick

It’s going to be a tough watch on draft night waiting to see who falls as the names we’d really like get snapped up

I'm still mad.

 

[Obeanie1]

Well I didn’t think I’d have to really say it, but for your sake - that post was…

View attachment 2157594

Emojo's work just as well btw.

It really helps distiguish berween the other posters who arent joking.

 

[Obeanie1]

For clarity, as at least 3 people have quoted me here, all I'm saying is history would suggest that in the case all 3 of them are fit [like the back half of this year when Flynn was playing in the 2's] Bailey has still been used as first ruck. He has a huge tank and has played basically 3 seasons straight rucking 70+ % of games and backing that up 7 days later. It's near superhuman durability, and the position is only going to get harder next year as we push players to be fitter than they've been for years.

Sure Flynn looks a more traditional Ruckman, and J Williams is a more talented footballer who has done some nice things in the ruck when pinch hitting in there. I don't know that J Williams has anywhere near the tank to replace Bailey outright, he hasn't shown that yet and who knows if that's even on the cards for him aerobically. I don't think we really want him to replace Bailey either, I'd prefer he spends more time up forward. If he does he does become a #1 ruckman that would be great.

But as it stands its Bailey's spot to lose and to be fair to him, he's never gone into a season having prepared to play the role either. He's also 3 years older than Jack, and even then was the youngest first ruckman in the league this year. For Jack to come in as a 22 year old and hold down that number 1 spot it'd be quite a feat.

Bailey has not secured the ruck/forward spot. Its not his to lose.

Jack has more runs on the board playing 2nd ruck and his forward craft is better than anything Bailey has shown to date.

And to date he hasnt been able to claim the #1 ruck spot either. As shown by us getting flogged each week in the ruck when he is leading it. He will need to at least halve the ruck contest and hit outs to advantage to do that.

 

[eaglevision]

That would be grounds for sliding back and doing a 12 and 26 swap with GWS to get 15 and 22 and one of their later picks

According to media reports Sydney were willing to trade 19 and 22 for 13. Perhaps they had a player trade in mind but if it was purely for the pick that is a trade using 12 that is worth exploring should the above eventuate. Downgrading Hynes (15) to Gross (22) but keeping 26 would seem like a good option if it’s on the table plus we’d have 19 instead of 21.

19, 22 and 26 would get us Oliver, a mid and the best KPD (I’m excluding Trainor). If Woosha gets on the blower to Rosa and Vozzo and gets the 2 x F2s for 28 and 31 deal done then that will go some way to undoing the absolute cluster f**k Clarke has left us in. 19,22,26,28,31 and Champion would be a great draft position. Let’s just hope we’d use them better than the Suns heist of 2018.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Too many talls in that 18-14 area for Richmond, and the Saints have later picks + their NGA to get talls. Might not be that much appetite for talls unfortunately
Youd think Tauru and Armstrong go before us for sure, but I think we are up against it to get another one befor eus.

Hopefully North split so they can take one without reaching, and need Richmond/Melb to be really keen on a KPF each I think.

I see it slightly different. Teams before us with multiple picks have the luxury of take needs first and then best available with their next pick.

Tigers have multiple picks so can afford to take best available key tall sooner than most might, to ensure they get him. So one of there 10/11 I think will be a tall. 2 mids will go with their picks 1 and 6. With all the picks they have in the 20s, they will then take best available for needs.

Saints will be desperate for pure mids and talls. They need an inside player and key defenders.

Dees desperate to find the Oliver/petracca and may/lever replacements.

I can see all three clubs taking a tall. It depends whether they consider TT a tall key? It will also mean that the likes of Smillie, Reid Allen will be available.



On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wooshaaaa]

I find myself loving Ollie Hannaford and wanting him in blue and gold; whilst accepting it would be pretty silly to draft him at 13 and it's incredibly unlikely he's there at 26.

7.26 2km time trial. Pass.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[dajesmac]

7.26 2km time trial. Pass.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah I did see that. I find it a strange result. It doesn’t correlate with his footy, where he seems to find a decent amount of footy and applies great defensive pressure, repeated run down tackles etc. I wonder if he was fully fit

 

[Lazzas]

I'm hoping our new coach saw the couple of midfield games Hutchinson played last season. Tough, hard at it, tackling machine and at 190cm could be the bonus big body mid we really need.

Schofield will have input into the midfield as well.

 

[mat11]

7.26 2km time trial. Pass.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't think he's really a need for us, but that time is the easiest attribute to get better at

On SM-A155F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ziad]

7.26 2km time trial. Pass.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Many here would have passed him

 

[Dark Sharks]

I legit would not be surprised if Hutchinson is never seen in the midfield again and all this carry on is for nothing.

Not entirely sure a "move the magnets" around game which was already over and us being an uncompetitive basket case is going to be enough to earn him a round 1 berth, let alone in the midfield.


Come round 1, my tip is he's once again playing up forward for the Beagles.

 

[mattyc75]

Yep, Your all over the place.

Definately leaning towards doom and gloom ..... glass always empty though.

If saying a young tall will have trouble getting games if all the other talls are healthy then yeah I guess it's all doom and gloom.

On SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app