The Association Football Cricket thread

[Jatz]

Go on then, what's your batting lineup combining those two lists?

 

[glenferry23]

I’d question how much Kumble bowled to the likes of Gooch, Gower etc. From memory Kumble debuted in England in 1990/91, they went to India a few years later however unsure if they had retired by then.

I also think Kumble was a very intelligent, canny bowler. High IQ to his game in the way he would try to work over a batsman ball by ball. Over time his flipper became more difficult to control however there was a period of time mid 90s when he (and Warne) used to castle or LBW so many batsmen who didn’t know how to handle those deliveries.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Go on then, what's your batting lineup combining those two lists?

Kidding surely?

Root and Stokes.

Bell and Cook from earlier career with Butcher, Thorpe, Stewart. Could add Athers and Hussain before the next from the bottom list.

 

[eth-dog]

Funny how things pan out, with no inclination he'd retire the discussion of Indian spinners came up in my local game on Saturday.

Kumble was the unanimous no.1. with many having Harbhajan as the 2nd best. The debate begun for 3rd best with many choosing Prasanna or Chandresaker or Bishan Bedi Singh.

Most were in agreement both Jadeja and Ashwin have Warner syndrome. Inflated stats due to home dominance, but poor away from home.

Very harsh on Jadeja. His record in Australia, South Africa and the West Indies (none of which are particularly spin friendly) is very good and his overall away record is solid. Much, much better than Harbhajan's, who averaged nearly 40 away from home even though 1/3 of his games away from home were in the sub continent compared to 7% of Jadeja's.

If anything, Harbhajan has Warner syndrome. Good to very good home record but terrible once he gets on a plane. Ranking the three of them I'd go:

Jadeja



Ashwin









Harbhajan

 

[Jatz]

Kidding surely?

Root and Stokes.

Bell and Cook from earlier career with Butcher, Thorpe, Stewart. Could add Athers and Hussain before the next from the bottom list.

So Root, Stokes and Cook - which is half of the batting lineup from the bottom list you don't rate

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So Root, Stokes and Cook - which is half of the batting lineup from the bottom list you don't rate

Two. Cook is early career.
List 1.

You struggle with reading I see. Merely stated Kumble faced better bats and he did,

Very harsh on Jadeja. His record in Australia, South Africa and the West Indies (none of which are particularly spin friendly) is very good and his overall away record is solid. Much, much better than Harbhajan's, who averaged nearly 40 away from home even though 1/3 of his games away from home were in the sub continent compared to 7% of Jadeja's.

If anything, Harbhajan has Warner syndrome. Good to very good home record but terrible once he gets on a plane. Ranking the three of them I'd go:

Jadeja



Ashwin









Harbhajan

Already acknowledged that.
Just never warmed to Ashwin as a bowler. Doctored pitch merchant.

 

[eth-dog]

Two. Cook is early career.
List 1.

You struggle with reading I see. Merely stated Kumble faced better bats and he did,

Already acknowledged that.
Just never warmed to Ashwin as a bowler. Doctored pitch merchant.

Ashwin is okay to good. Not as good as Lyon or Swann from this generation of offies.

If I were to do the best Indian side I've seen I'd probably go:

Dravid
Sehwag
Pujara
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Dhoni (+, c)
Jadeja
Kumble
Zaheer
Bumrah

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ashwin is okay to good. Not as good as Lyon or Swann from this generation of offies.

Scary when we agree.
Swann terrorized us in less deadly conditions.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Dravid
Sehwag
Pujara
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Dhoni (+, c)
Jadeja
Kumble
Zaheer
Bumrah

No room for 7 ducks in a row Ajit Akarkar?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Bailey essentially admitting to screwing up two tests ago by dropping McSweeney. Looks like Konstas will get his chance.

Feels like a summer too soon but we'll see.

 

[Bradesmaen]

They used McSweeney in his wrong spot to give Konstas time to come in at a better situation, feel sorry for McSweeney, although they should have dropped him down to 3 and dropped Labuschagne.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

McSweeney was on a hiding to nothing being played in a position he doesn't bat against the world's best bowler with a new ball.

Hopefully it doesn't destroy his confidence but, really, he should've been backed, drop a position with Labs making way.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I mean if you wanted to promote a no 3 to opener why not the more experienced Labuschagne rather than McSweeney? McSweeney at 3

 

[99 Problems]

It’ll be exciting to see Konstas play. Probably the most exciting batting debut from a kid we’ve had since Phil Hughes. 100,000 at Boxing Day against the best bowler in the world is a hell of a way to do it.

But can’t help but feel for McSweeney. Given just about an impossible job. Not sure how accurate it is but cricviz have an expected average stat and him and Usman have basically had it tougher this series than any opening partnership going back nearly 20 years of data.

What happens if Usman retires or Marnus keeps struggling? Does McSweeney get another go or is he at the end of the line now? And are they just going to do the same to Konstas if he can’t handle Bumrah either

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

It’ll be exciting to see Konstas play. Probably the most exciting batting debut from a kid we’ve had since Phil Hughes. 100,000 at Boxing Day against the best bowler in the world is a hell of a way to do it.

But can’t help but feel for McSweeney. Given just about an impossible job. Not sure how accurate it is but cricviz have an expected average stat and him and Usman have basically had it tougher this series than any opening partnership going back nearly 20 years of data.

What happens if Usman retires or Marnus keeps struggling? Does McSweeney get another go or is he at the end of the line now? And are they just going to do the same to Konstas if he can’t handle Bumrah either

Yeah they’ll definitely get other chances. Khawaja, Smith, Labuschagne, Marsh, Head were all dropped at some stage of their career. Plenty of players are

 

[Bradesmaen]

About time they applied the same standards they hold McSweeney to to the rest of the squad. Mitch Marsh is getting by on nothing, he's never been a quality test player and he keeps getting games because Green is injured and he's "one of the boys". Beau Webster has out performed him the last two years but isnt one of the boys.

 

[99 Problems]

Yeah they’ll definitely get other chances. Khawaja, Smith, Labuschagne, Marsh, Head were all dropped at some stage of their career. Plenty of players are

No issue with players getting dropped, like you said most players are. Even Marnus is still young enough that if he got dropped now he isn’t done and should come back if he finds form.

But it’s particularly harsh after 3 tests, against the toughest attack in the world he’ll have to face in a position he hasn’t bat before. And the series against Sri Lanka starts before the shield starts again. It would be strange to drop him because he’s not up to it and bring him back before he even plays again.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The decisions made shine a light on where we are at as a development system.
Bailey selecting McSweeney then dumping him two tests later is admitting an error, but 18 months ago we became WTC winners and held onto the Ashes. So he and members of the team had credits in the bank.

1. Last summer the opening options to replace Warner were so dire we opted to move our No.4 rather than go back to tried and failed options Harris, Renshaw and Bancroft.

2. This summer the options at opener were still dire that we've selected a non-opener with modest credentials to be our opener instead of the same 3 failures. Now putting a teenager into the furnace possibly before he's ready.

So if we're having this much trouble replacing Warner who left 11 months ago why do people think we should be doing the same with Khawaja and Labuschagne. Marsh is a seat warmer for Green anyway. Inglis and Webster are poor reserve batsmen options. Neither will be more than solid FC players, not test calibre.

 

[Bradesmaen]

The decisions made shine a light on where we are at as a development system.
Bailey selecting McSweeney then dumping him two tests later is admitting an error, but 18 months ago we became WTC winners and held onto the Ashes. So he and members of the team had credits in the bank.

1. Last summer the opening options to replace Warner were so dire we opted to move our No.4 rather than go back to tried and failed options Harris, Renshaw and Bancroft.

2. This summer the options at opener were still dire that we've selected a non-opener with modest credentials to be our opener instead of the same 3 failures. Now putting a teenager into the furnace possibly before he's ready.

So if we're having this much trouble replacing Warner who left 11 months ago why do people think we should be doing the same with Khawaja and Labuschagne. Marsh is a seat warmer for Green anyway. Inglis and Webster are poor reserve batsmen options. Neither will be more than solid FC players, not test calibre.

There's nothing wrong with giving someone a go and seeing if they are up to it rather than trying the same old shit players over and over again and seeing they aren't up to it. Starc and Marsh have made a career out of being mediocre 90% of the time and then a spurt of good form. Three of the top 4 are 30+, why not drop Labuschagne instead of McSweeney and see how he does? I agree on the openers being dire though and I would have put in someone like Harris instead for a year instead of Konstas.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

372 @ 27 which is more than DK Lillee doesn't happen to someone mediocre all the time.
Starc has definitely become more consistent as years have gone on.

Don't agree with dropping Labuschagne at this moment, there's no good options.
Even Khawaja is safe due to lack of options. There's no options for any of our top 7 incl. WK.

Probably only 1-2 good options for our pace bowlers and Murphy for Lyon.

 

[Bradesmaen]

372 @ 27 which is more than DK Lillee doesn't happen to someone mediocre all the time.
Starc has definitely become more consistent as years have gone on.

Don't agree with dropping Labuschagne at this moment, there's no good options.
Even Khawaja is safe due to lack of options. There's no options for any of our top 7 incl. WK.

Probably only 1-2 good options for our pace bowlers and Murphy for Lyon.

Take out pink ball tests and he's at All-rounder bowling levels.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

298 @ 29.9 in day matches is still a very good return.

 

[Bradesmaen]

298 @ 29.9 in day matches is still a very good return.

That's allrounder level.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

 

[eth-dog]

372 @ 27 which is more than DK Lillee doesn't happen to someone mediocre all the time.
Starc has definitely become more consistent as years have gone on.

Don't agree with dropping Labuschagne at this moment, there's no good options.
Even Khawaja is safe due to lack of options. There's no options for any of our top 7 incl. WK.

Probably only 1-2 good options for our pace bowlers and Murphy for Lyon.

There are only two other blokes with 200+ wickets that have a better strike rate than him. Cummins (future HOF) and Steyn, who is probably the best quick since the turn of the century