Toast The Big 4 all getting over a million people through the gate in season 2023

[eth-dog]

Your maths looks out, Freo are ahead of Essendon.
67.66% and that is using the offical capacity at Optus which looks dodgy. 60k unless it’s a GF and they squeeze people in.

The official capacity is apparently 63k ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

 

[Purple Suit]

The official capacity is apparently 63k ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

I think that is rectangle sports. 61,266, although that includes standing which I don’t think they sell for H/A. A lot of stadiums are like that though.

I also forgot, 1 of our home games was Norwood which was at 100%. Thanks AFL.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Has any other club had locked marquee games by the AFL in stand alone time slots

Only hawks vs geelong, but the moment those crowds falter you can best believe that it's taken off them

 

[Frank Grimes]

Collingwood have the biggest attendance. The other big 4 clubs basically get their numbers inflated by playing Collingwood twice and getting an extra 40-50K rock up to an away game.

You probably should have looked at the fixture before commenting. Richmond play Collingwood, Essendon and Calton only once this year.

 

[eth-dog]

I think that is rectangle sports. 61,266, although that includes standing which I don’t think they sell for H/A. A lot of stadiums are like that though.

I also forgot, 1 of our home games was Norwood which was at 100%. Thanks AFL.

Oh, that's probably why my figures are off. Also the Norwood game was about 88% (9.3/11k)

 

[Dan26]

Essendon would be completely irrelevant jb this league over the last 20 yrs if it wasn’t for Anzac Day

You can count your lucky stars

We don’t need Dreamtime either , you do lol

Since 2002 Essendon has not finished top-4 ans we play most of our games at Marvel. In that time Richmond have won 3 premierships, finished top-4 four times and played most of their games at the MCG. The best measure of support is how a team does against NON-Victorian opponents.

Since 2002 (and I'm deliberately chooisong a time period to suit Richmond and to NOT suit Essendon) the Bombers outdraw Richmond versus every single non-Victorian team. Every one. Yes, every. Single. One.

Let's go through three of them, and I'm happy to do all 8 non-Victorian clubs

Essendon vs Fremantle in Melbourne since 2002

• 12 games ALL at Marvel stadium
• average crowd 32,263
• no MCG games
• no top-4 appearances for Essendon in this timeframe

Richmond versus Fremantle in Melbourne since 2002

• 13 games, 12 of them at the MCG
• average crowd 29,769
• only one game at Marvel stadium
• FOUR top-4 appearances for Richmond in this timeframe

So Essendon draw bigger crowds versus Fremantle than Richmond do over this period, despite never having made the top-4, never having played Fremantle at the MCG, while the Tigers played at the MCG 12 out of 13 times and finished top-4 four times and still got smaller crowds.


Essendon vs Adelaide in Melbourne since 2002 (since Essendon have been s**t)

• 10 games ALL at Marvel stadium
• average crowd 33,384
• no MCG games
• no top-4 appearances for Essendon in this timeframe

Richmond versus Adelaide in Melbourne since 2002

• 9 games, 4 of them at the MCG
• average crowd 31,185
• FOUR top-4 appearances for Richmond in this timeframe

So Essendon draw more in Victoria versus the Crows than Richmond do since 2002 despite NO top-4 appearances, and NO MCG games versus the Crows.

You have had 4 MCG games versus the Crows, and four top-4 appearances in that time.


Essendon vs Brisbane in Melbourne since 2002 (since Essendon has been s**t)
43,036
47,744
50,003
44,055
32,761
35,034
40,053
41,636
28,785
36,361
33,915
36,857
34,869
41,246
48,289
30,631

Av 39,076


Richmond vs Brisbane in Victoria since 2002
22,642
27,211
28,093
31,275
34,646
37,438
46,961
34,577
28,883
28,188
32,870
76,995

Av 35,814


1.Essendon has played Brisbane only twice at the MCG since 2002 out of 16 matches
2. Richmond has played Brisbane 7 times out of 12 at the MCG
3. Essendon has never made the top-4 in this time
4. Richmond has made the top-4 four times and won 3 premierships in this time
5. Essendon still averages more versus Brisbane than Richmond do despite all the above being true


I can do this for all 8 interstate teams if you want me to.

 

[Dan26]

Collingwood and Essendon have routinely been the two highest supported Victorian based clubs. This has been the case for years.

Supercoach club supporter statistics below for the 10 Victorian clubs. It's probably the best measure you can find because it is a quasi-survey of not 100 people, not 1000 people, but many thousands and thousands of participants

Coll 19,921
Ess 19,342

Daylight

Carl 16,283
Rich 14,223
Haw 12,846
Gee 11,735
St.K 7,670
Kang 7,319
WB 6,645
Melb 6,010

 

[Worm4]

Collingwood and Essendon have routinely been the two highest supported Victorian based clubs. This has been the case for years.

Supercoach club supporter statistics below for the 10 Victorian clubs. It's probably the best measure you can find because it is a quasi-survey of not 100 people, not 1000 people, but many thousands and thousands of participants

Coll 19,921
Ess 19,342

Daylight

Carl 16,283
Rich 14,223
Haw 12,846
Gee 11,735
St.K 7,670
Kang 7,319
WB 6,645
Melb 6,010

All that list tells me is that Collingwood and essendon have more nerds supporting them , than other clubs

 

[South of the Yarra]

All that list tells me is that Collingwood and essendon have more nerds supporting them , than other clubs

Wow, we have never been called nerds before. Thank you so much. That is a beautiful compliment in comparison to what we are usually called.

 

[blaisee]

Look it is very hard to talk Essendon fans into logic and away from their views of their historical relevance

And there is little doubt that if they actually started playing finals they would get big crowds

But this take that they have carried the league for 20 years is contingent on the fact that they had a public holiday game to themselves for 20 years

All number on crowds for them need these numbers taken out, or an asterix added

 

[Dan26]

Look it is very hard to talk Essendon fans into logic and away from their views of their historical relevance

And there is little doubt that if they actually started playing finals they would get big crowds

But this take that they have carried the league for 20 years is contingent on the fact that they had a public holiday game to themselves for 20 years

All number on crowds for them need these numbers taken out, or an asterix added

Public holiday games add maybe 15% to the crowd. You need a big supporter base in the first place to get 75,000 on a regular day, boosted to 85,000 on a public holiday. Anzac day is one single game that if it wasn't played on a pubic holday would probably still get over 80,000 anyway. It makes almost no difference to average attendance because it features thetwo biggest clubs who would draw well regardless.

The reason why Essendon get so many marquee games is because quite frankly they have been the highest supporter club (from around 1994-2002-ish) or second-highest supporter club (since then) and draw more people to their games than any club except Collingwood on average.

As stated earlier Essendon draw higher crowd averages than Richmond VERSUS EVERY NON-VICTORIAN TEAM, over the period 2002-2023 when Essendon hasn't been an MCG club or made the top-4.

That's not public holiday games. That's regular games against GWS/Gold Coast/Port/etc. Essendon's crowd average versus those 8 teams is higher than Richmond for all 8 of those non-Victorian teams when played in Victoria. All 8 of them. Would you like me to provide the numbers? I've done so for three of the 8. I'm happy to do it for the other five.

 

[blaisee]

Public holiday games add maybe 15% to the crowd. You need a big supporter base in the first place to get 75,000 on a regular day, boosted to 85,000 on a public holiday. Anzac day is one single game that if it wasn't played on a pubic holday would probably still get over 80,000 anyway. It makes almost no difference to average attendance because it features thetwo biggest clubs who would draw well regardless.

The reason why Essendon get so many marquee games is because quite frankly they have been the highest supporter club (from around 1994-2002-ish) or second-highest supporter club (since then) and draw more people to their games than any club except Collingwood on average.

As stated earlier Essendon draw higher crowd averages than Richmond VERSUS EVERY NON-VICTORIAN TEAM, over the period 2002-2023 when Essendon hasn't been an MCG club or made the top-4.

That's not public holiday games. That's regular games against GWS/Gold Coast/Port/etc. Essendon's crowd average versus those 8 teams is higher than Richmond for all 8 of those non-Victorian teams when played in Victoria. All 8 of them. Would you like me to provide the numbers? I've done so for three of the 8. I'm happy to do it for the other five.

We can agree to disagree on the 15%, especially on a public holiday of the national significance of Anzac day, especially since anzac day football has been woven into the days celebrations politically

Any team playing Collingwood on anzac day would get just as big a crowd as Essendon, Essendon add very little to the day, Essendon are just lucky that the decision for them to own the day was when they were still relevant, if that decision was to be made today, give you a tip, don't think it would be Essendon

Also its a rather arbitrary decision for you to pick 2002 as the starting point, especially since you have not won a final since 2004.

Why don't you do the number since 2013, the last 10 years and see how you go

Why pick 2002?

 

[BuffDog]

One of the big issues both Essendon and Carlton have at the moment is that Marvel sellouts are only getting crowds of 39-42k - potentially reducing crowd figures by 10k a game at the stadium. The problem is both clubs have a high number of reserved seat holders that simply don't/can't show up to every game.

AFL and the clubs need to sort this out.

Both clubs would also love more MCG home games.

 

[Dan26]

We can agree to disagree on the 15%, especially on a public holiday of the national significance of Anzac day, especially since anzac day football has been woven into the days celebrations politically

Any team playing Collingwood on anzac day would get just as big a crowd as Essendon, Essendon add very little to the day, Essendon are just lucky that the decision for them to own the day was when they were still relevant, if that decision was to be made today, give you a tip, don't think it would be Essendon

Also its a rather arbitrary decision for you to pick 2002 as the starting point, especially since you have not won a final since 2004.

Why don't you do the number since 2013, the last 10 years and see how you go

Why pick 2002?

I've picked 2002, because that is the time period where we havn't made top-4 (2002-2023)

And to say any club (Collingwood or not) playing on Anzac day would get a similar crowd is blatantly and factually wrong. Anzac day matches have been played for 80 years. Before Essendon and Collingwood stated playing in 1995, Richmond played St.Kilda the year before in 1994 in front of 37,870 at Waverley, which was 12th vs 14th. This was probably 10,000 more than what it would have got on a Saturday. A good crowd between two struggling clubs, but far from a sell-out

In 1993, 51,211 saw Carlton play St.Kilda on Anzac day at Waverely (4th vs 9th at the time). Once again about 10,000 more than what it would have been on a Saturday.

In 1990, the year Collingwood won the premiership they played Melbourne at Waverley on Anzac day (a Thursday) in front of 55,735, so this notion that a Collingwood game on Anzac day just magically becomes a sell-out is rubbish.

You need the two biggest clubs to get their usual 80,000, then add 10,000 for the public holiday and you get your sell-out.

To suggest Essendon or Collingwood playing North Melbourne on Anzac day would get 90,000 is so factually incorrect and so bereft of both logic and historical crowd data, that it defies rational logic.

Anzac day is big, not because it's Anzac Day but because the two biggest clubs play on the day.

 

[blaisee]

I've picked 2002, because that is the time period where we havn't made top-4 (2002-2023)

And to say any club (Collingwood or not) playing on Anzac day would get a similar crowd is blatantly and factually wrong. Anzac day matches have been played for 80 years. Before Essendon and Collingwood stated playing in 1995, Richmond played St.Kilda the year before in 1994 in front of 37,870 at Waverley, which was 12th vs 14th. This was probably 10,000 more than what it would have got on a Saturday. A good crowd between two struggling clubs, but far from a sell-out

In 1993, 51,211 saw Carlton play St.Kilda on Anzac day at Waverely (4th vs 9th at the time). Once again about 10,000 more than what it would have been on a Saturday.

In 1990, the year Collingwood won the premiership they played Melbourne at Waverley on Anzac day (a Thursday) in front of 55,735, so this notion that a Collingwood game on Anzac day just magically becomes a sell-out is rubbish.

You need the two biggest clubs to get their usual 80,000, then add 10,000 for the public holiday and you get your sell-out.

To suggest Essendon or Collingwood playing North Melbourne on Anzac day would get 90,000 is so factually incorrect and so bereft of both logic and historical crowd data, that it defies rational logic.

Anzac day is big, not because it's Anzac Day but because the two biggest clubs play on the day.

I never said Essendon playing anyone on Anzac Day as it is being presented now , will sell out .

Quite opposite

I said collingwood could play anyone on Anzac Day and it would sell out

Very different things

My point stands do the numbers from 2013 and come back to me , and pls don’t use marvel stadium as an excuse for your low crowds

It was essendons choice to play home games at that venue .

Richmond and collingwood are too big to choose that venue to
Play home games

 

[blaisee]

Great. At the moment Essendon have three blockbusters to pad out their numbers in other games.

Anzac Day
Dream Time
Kings Birthday Sunday

Figures will always be skewed by those games in comparison to the clubs that dont get them.

This of course is true

It is an undeniable fact

 

[Worm4]

Carlton are a sleeping giant.
Sorry , but they are bigger than Essendon right now .
More members , more supporters.
Keep telling yourself that only Essendon and collingwood would fill the mcg on Anzac day, but so would Collingwood v Richmond
Collingwood v Carlton
Richmond v Carlton
Your delusional if you think otherwise.

 

[Dan26]

I never said Essendon playing anyone on Anzac Day as it is being presented now , will sell out .

Quite opposite

I said collingwood could play anyone on Anzac Day and it would sell out

Rubbish. Unmitigated garbage.

If that was the case, why waste Essendon vs Collingwood on Anzac Day? Why not play Collingwood versus North Melbourne and get 90,000 on Anzac Day and then Essendon vs Collingwood a week later gets the normal 80-85,000 and you get two 85,000 crowds.

Collingwood and Essendon have very similar sized support bases. Collingwood a bit more, but not by much. Anzac Day adds 10-15% to the crowd. It's a sell out because if you add 10-15% to an already normal 80,000 crowd you get a sell-out because the two cubs are the two biggest but its not a sell-out for Essendon or Collingwood versus a non-big-4 club.

We know this because Collingwood has played on the Kings Birthday Public holiday for years now, and it's usually not sold out. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE PLAYING BLOODY MELBOURNE.

You're confusing the big occasion of Anzac Day because of Anzac Day itself, when the reason it is a big occasion is because of the teams involved.

We know this because the last time two teams who weren't Essendon and Collingwood played on Anzac Day (Rich vs St.Kilda in 1994) the crowd was 37,000. One year later, before Essendon vs Collingwood was ever a tradition the Dons and Pies drew 94,825. Why the big difference from one year to the next with no marketing or tradition involved? Because the clubs make it big due to their size.

 

[Dan26]

My point stands do the numbers from 2013 and come back to me , and pls don’t use marvel stadium as an excuse for your low crowds

We don't have low crowds. Our crowds are always large and have been for years.

Why do you want me to start in 2013? Would it be because of this:

2002-2012 Richmond miss finals (you don't want this counted)
2013 - Richmond make finals
2014 - Richmond make finals
2015 - Richmond make finals
2016 - Richmond miss finals
2017 - Richmond make finals
2018 - Richmond make finals
2019 - Richmond make finals
2020 - Richmond make finals
2021 - Richmond miss finals
2022 - Richmond make finals

So you want me to do a crowd average starting in 2013, but not before 2013? LOL!!!

I chose 2002 to give an advantage to Richmond. Since 2002 Essendon has not been top-4, plays the majority of games at Marvel, and Richmond over that time plays most games at the MCG and has finished top-4 four times.

Yet over those 20 years, we outdraw Richmond versus every single non-Victorian team. Every one.

But you want me to start the stat in 2013.... now looking at the above list, why would that be? LOL! Jesus Christ if you're going to be biased at least try to hide it.

Why not use 10 years of success AND 10 years of not much success to get a relevant 20 year average?

 

[Worm4]

1.Collingwood 》2.Carlton 》3.Essendon 》4.Richmond

That is all

 

[Dan26]

Like I said I'm happy to go through all 8 non-Victorian clubs. I've done three, West Coast here now is the 4th

Essendon vs West Coast in Melbourne since 2002

• 13 games ALL at Marvel stadium
• average crowd 35,165
• no MCG games
• no top-4 appearances for Essendon in this timeframe

Richmond versus West Coast in Melbourne since 2002

• 12 games, 10 of them at the MCG
• average crowd 34,912
• only two games at Marvel stadium
• FOUR top-4 appearances for Richmond in this timeframe

Now admittedly there's not much in it, but in that time frame we have finished outside the top-4 every season and never played an MCG game against the Eagles. You've played them at the MCG 10 times and won 3 flags and we STILL outdraw you!

I can do this for all non-Victorian opponents and the results are always the same, even if I only include Essendon's bad era.

If I go back and include the 5 MCG home games we've had against the Eagles spanning from 1992-1999, the average crowd from those 5 games was 43,352. But I'm not counting them, just to make it easy on your health.

 

[BuffDog]

Since 2000 and excluding 2020-21 for COVID, Essendon have outdrawn Carlton (home crowds) 15 times - with Carlton outdrawing Essendon 6 times (08, 10-11, 16, 22-23)

Since 2000 Essendon has also had more members than Carlton in 15 seasons (Carlton having more in 2003, 05, 07, 09, 20, 22-23)

Carlton may be more popular currently due to their relatively good form in the last few seasons but I'd still argue Essendon are comfortably a
'bigger' club

 

[tigertRANCE]

never quite understood why people get into a circlejerk over crowd sizes

as for the OP, you guys do all realise that the 1million 'each' that the 4 have 'drawn' include doubling up the same crowd numbers when they've played each other, right?

Yeh nah. We only played Coll, Carl, Ess once this year, Hawks once too, Gws over there, Pies kissed on the d1ck as usual with their draw.

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Worm4]

Since 2000 and excluding 2020-21 for COVID, Essendon have outdrawn Carlton (home crowds) 15 times - with Carlton outdrawing Essendon 6 times (08, 10-11, 16, 22-23)

Since 2000 Essendon has also had more members than Carlton in 15 seasons (Carlton having more in 2003, 05, 07, 09, 20, 22-23)

Carlton may be more popular currently due to their relatively good form in the last few seasons but I'd still argue Essendon are comfortably a
'bigger' club

Comfortably? Lol. Argue away all you want, the crowd numbers home and away , and membership revenue suggest otherwise.
I'm not how you could argue essendons comfortable strength over Carlton coz the data available suggests otherwise.
Don't forget Carlton haven't played finals for 10 years either and gone through a crap time in that period.
Carlton are going to wave good bye to Essendon for the next few years I'd imagine in relation to numbers

 

[radiojake]

Yeh nah. We only played Coll, Carl, Ess once this year, Hawks once too, Gws over there, Pies kissed on the d1ck as usual with their draw.

On SM-S918B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I'm not talking about double up matches - just the way those totals are counted , crowds are counted twice

Rich v Collingwood got 85k in rnd 3 - those 85k are counted in Collingwood's million and Richmond's million so 170k of the '4 million'total was only 85k people

That's what I mean