Scape Goat The Cam Guthrie Echo Chamber

[PatrickBateman]

Cam Guthrie is never going to be an Ablett, Danger or Selwood. He's probably not going to reach Mitch Duncan's level but the level he has reached is good enough to be a player capable of holding his position in the best 22. He is every bit as important to a premiership for us as Josh Hunt, Wojo and Stokesy were to our 07-11 era.

The fact that he's good enough to be in our best 22 (if this is true, I don't believe so) shows how far we truly are from a Premiership. He's a passenger player, a complimentary player if everything is aligned. It's not just about how average Guthrie is as an AFL footballer, it's how the GFC have failed in trying to remedy the situation. Trying to reinvent a player is fine if they're a legitimate star or extremely talented, Guthrie was never either.

The GFC tried Guthrie all over the ground (even forward!) and just simply made him and themselves look stupid - killing more of his confidence. The move was to drop him, years ago.

Completely disagree with you putting this guy's name among Hunt, Wojo and Stokes. All really good, multidimensional players. Especially Hunt and Wojo.

 

[CatFan79]

Cam Guthrie is never going to be an Ablett, Danger or Selwood.

I hope you realise you've just shattered the hopes and dreams of a band of loyal believers..

 

[Max Milburn]

I don't like this thread.
Only because it's not doing its job.
Too many mentions of Guthrie in the other threads.

 

[you pick one]

Under what logic ?

The center clearances are going to be one of the most important aspects of scoring in 2019.

So you are trying to tell me that a clearance specialist like a Pat Cripps, Nat Fyfe, Martin, Dangerfield, Oliver, Pendlebury.

Will be less important ? In 2019 because of less congestion.

Boundary throw ins, ball ups are still exactly the same. So they will lose value there how?

So you cannot stop the best clearance specialists with high numbers around the ball. What do you expect to happen with less congestion they will stop getting it because of more space.

You still need to win the ball first your theory revolves around having the ball.
And doing circle work.

One of those for Guthrie,where do we sign,the blokes delusional.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I agree that blocking for teammates will be essential and I'd say teamwork now becomes more important. But to me big-bodied midfielders generally refers to those who extract the ball from congestion and whose strength is breaking tackles which is less likely to be crucial with so much more space around the middle. Those who can win the ball and then handball well to put their teammates away will be essential and some of the big bodied mids might be great at this but I don't think their size will be as useful now as it was previously.

This is why I've put some hard earned on Danger and Cripps to win the Chas
The stronger contested centre square types will benefit from the 666 as all they have to do is beat their opponent and not compete with the swarm that used to come off the square and congest the play. If calculations are correct the swarm will take an extra 2 seconds to arrive so the majority of clearances will come from the 6 centre square participants with support from the wingers.
As you say those who get first use and can give off to advantage will be pivotal.
FWIW Constable has a lot of potential to be a first class extractor if last Friday is any indication

 

[Vdubs]

I'm really scratching my head here, i'm not sure what some people expect. No premiership side in history has had 6 Matty Scarlett calibre players in the backline, 6 Juniors in the midfield and 6 Seniors up forwards. For one, you wouldn't be able to fit them into the salary cap.

Are some posters to young to know or to old to remember some of the poor sides that we have seen in the hoops before.
Take this side that was smashed by a bottom four side in Adelaide by 63 points in 1999.

https://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=638&Code=7c0e5c279f6e98c5d3546a8abdf9be2d&Sort=Rating Desc

Had he played back then, you could just about make a case for Cam Guthrie to be in the top 10 in that side and now we are arguing about whether Cam is in the best 22 of today's side. At some point we as Geelong fans will be watching similar sides as the above run out again and there will be bigger issues to worry about. In the meantime, we have a pretty good list and the problem is not the players, it's how we are using them.

Cam Guthrie is never going to be an Ablett, Danger or Selwood. He's probably not going to reach Mitch Duncan's level but the level he has reached is good enough to be a player capable of holding his position in the best 22. He is every bit as important to a premiership for us as Josh Hunt, Wojo and Stokesy were to our 07-11 era.

I'd have him at the same level of quality and importance as Duncan, easily best 22, and he may have struggled a little with identity since his numbersake has returned, and Danger also, and Kelly, but having a heap of qualified mids can only help. It's up to the MC to use these players in the best possible ways. Having flexibility and versatility, as Guthrie has, must be a benefit.

 

[Pollywaffle]

They can't be he's just been given a 3 year extension on his contract,how did that happen.In before the club can do no wrong brigade.

Did he come as a package deal with Scott? Like steak knives....

 

[Spazz Cat]

I'd have him at the same level of quality and importance as Duncan, easily best 22, and he may have struggled a little with identity since his numbersake has returned, and Danger also, and Kelly, but having a heap of qualified mids can only help. It's up to the MC to use these players in the best possible ways. Having flexibility and versatility, as Guthrie has, must be a benefit.

On his day (very rare. 4 or 5 times??) Guthrie is way more damaging than Duncan. No doubt.
They're worlds apart as players though. Almost total opposites.
Duncan plays at a decent level very consistently with the odd bad games.
Duncan works preety hard defensively.
Direct opposite applies for Cam.

 

[Max Milburn]

Did he come as a package deal with Scott? Like steak knives....

Not sure about that. Steak knives can be quite dangerous.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Duncan works preety hard defensively.
Direct opposite applies for Cam.

Of all the criticisms of Guthrie this is the one I really just don't get. From what I see his defensive workrate and accountability is perhaps his greatest strength. Can anyone who thinks this please point me to some footage which shows his poor defensive work rate?

 

[Vdubs]

On his day (very rare. 4 or 5 times??) Guthrie is way more damaging than Duncan. No doubt.
They're worlds apart as players though. Almost total opposites.
Duncan plays at a decent level very consistently with the odd bad games.
Duncan works preety hard defensively.
Direct opposite applies for Cam.

Disagree.
Duncan is as overrated as Guthrie is underrated here.
I like them both, but Guthrie is as important as Duncan in our team balance.
Sure, it's only MY opinion, but it appears the MC at least thinks that way too.
With good reason.
Guthrie is a class person and player.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Of all the criticisms of Guthrie this is the one I really just don't get. From what I see his defensive workrate and accountability is perhaps his greatest strength. Can anyone who thinks this please point me to some footage which shows his poor defensive work rate?

Watch the game coming up on the weekend.
I've been watching him for the last 2 years.
Wouldn't have a problem with him if he went as hard as most others.
Except for the hospital handballs. Watch for that on the weekend too. He does that nearly once a game.
I'm not making this up.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Disagree.
Duncan is as overrated as Guthrie is underrated here.
I like them both, but Guthrie is as important as Duncan in our team balance.
Sure, it's only MY opinion, but it appears the MC at least thinks that way too.
With good reason.
Guthrie is a class person and player.

Duncan's not overrated by me I don't think.
I don't see him as a star but I believe he plays decently nearly every week.
I'm more than happy with a player who does that.
Guthrie does not.
I've never met him TBH. Wouldn't know if he is a quality person like you do.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Watch the game coming up on the weekend.
I've been watching him for the last 2 years.
Wouldn't have a problem with him if he went as hard as most others.
Except the hospital handballs. Watch for that on the weekend too. He does that nearly once a game.
I'm not making this up.

I've watched every game we've played over the past few years including preseason games and never noticed particularly poor defensive efforts from him. In fact from what I've seen he's much quicker to look to defend than most of our mids (probably why some of his best games have been in run with roles). Sorry but "watch the game" and "I'm not making this up" isn't exactly evidence. All I'm asking for is a couple of examples (match and time) where his defensive efforts have been poor so I can see what I've apparently missed.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I've watched every game we've played over the past few years including preseason games and never noticed particularly poor defensive efforts from him. In fact from what I've seen he's much quicker to look to defend than most of our mids (probably why some of his best games have been in run with roles). Sorry but "watch the game" and "I'm not making this up" isn't exactly evidence. All I'm asking for is a couple of examples (match and time) where his defensive efforts have been poor so I can see what I've apparently missed.

Yeah I could probably do that if I'm bored enough.
I can't edit videos though sorry

 

[Footy Smarts]

Yeah I could probably do that if I'm bored enough.
I can't edit videos though sorry

No need to edit videos. I'm happy to go to the footage if I have a specific time to look for something. It's just something I'm rather dumbfounded by. Poor disposal, questionable decision making, costly fumbles and getting caught holding the ball have all been major issues that I've seen with Guthrie. But I just have never noticed him shirking his defensive responsibilities so I'm genuinely interested to see if I've just missed it.

 

[Vdubs]

Duncan's not overrated by me I don't think.
I don't see him as a star but I believe he plays decently nearly every week.
I'm more than happy with a player who does that.
Guthrie does not.
I've never met him TBH. Wouldn't know if he is a quality person like you do.

I only quote what the club says about him.
Don't know him like the ER boys.
But the TAC people also rated him as a quality kid .

 

[Vdubs]

Watch the game coming up on the weekend.
I've been watching him for the last 2 years.
Wouldn't have a problem with him if he went as hard as most others.
Except for the hospital handballs. Watch for that on the weekend too. He does that nearly once a game.
I'm not making this up.

Let's accept he is not as quick as Danger, or as silky as GAJ, or as tough as Selwood.
But he is Guthrie, and he has obvious strengths that make us more potent when he's firing.
If a lack of preseason, foot injury, whatever, has made him less potent last year, so be it. He is a much needed player, and at exactly the right age, hence the contract extension.

 

[Down at K Park]

Duncan's not overrated by me I don't think.
I don't see him as a star but I believe he plays decently nearly every week.
I'm more than happy with a player who does that.
Guthrie does not.
I've never met him TBH. Wouldn't know if he is a quality person like you do.

I’ve heard he makes a good icecream cone.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Let's accept he is not as quick as Danger, or as silky as GAJ, or as tough as Selwood.
But he is Guthrie, and he has obvious strengths that make us more potent when he's firing.
If a lack of preseason, foot injury, whatever, has made him less potent last year, so be it. He is a much needed player, and at exactly the right age, hence the contract extension.

Let's just accept that a pensioners turd is harder than Guthrie.

 

[Vdubs]

Let's just accept that a pensioners turd is harder than Guthrie.

Manual disimpactions for pensioners' constipation is common

 

[Vdubs]

I’ve heard he makes a good icecream cone.

Clever lad- those cones are not easy to make en masse.

 

[Landgraft]

Manual disimpactions for pensioners' constipation is common

This is that rarely sighted top tier of comebacks. Like a Z. Tuohy bullet after the siren...

 

[Partridge]

Disagree.
Duncan is as overrated as Guthrie is underrated here.
I like them both, but Guthrie is as important as Duncan in our team balance.
Sure, it's only MY opinion, but it appears the MC at least thinks that way too.
With good reason.
Guthrie is a class person and player.

Interesting observation.

To me, Guthrie has not lived up to early promise, especially as a small defender in 2013. Duncan has him covered by a long way in my estimation. Way, way, way more consistent.

 

[Cataholic]

I'd have him at the same level of quality and importance as Duncan, easily best 22, and he may have struggled a little with identity since his numbersake has returned, and Danger also, and Kelly, but having a heap of qualified mids can only help. It's up to the MC to use these players in the best possible ways. Having flexibility and versatility, as Guthrie has, must be a benefit.

I value your insight as one of the higher quality posters here VD, but gotta disagree with you on this one.

He started ok, but for mine Cam has gone backwards at a rate of knots these last few years, and now offers little.

I see him as being timid, gun shy, and an extremely poor user of the ball.