The Clayton Oliver Statistical Analysis Thread

[TooBlue14]

Think weitering has shown quite a bit mate

Yes as a backhand, working towards being a competent forward, but he's no hogan yet although has the marking ability.

 

[ManOfClay]

But this is a stupid argument, I was backing up a fellow Carlton supporter because they were right. I'm really fussed if you believe it or not. This is a Clayton Oliver conversation and he is a gun. Melbourne now have hogan / petracca and Oliver. A great future. We only have Cripps plus a few question marks.

It was a stupid argument because the original Carlton poster was stupid enough to suggest Collingwood had Scott Pendlebury applying a hard tag. What has happened since is you've shifted the goal posts and then told me to find a media report that probably doesn't exist.

I've watched it. I did mention that I may have been in a post game mid week media. Have you watched the game. The last quarter has Pendles running with/tagging Cripps.

If you understood a modicum of footy you'd know this happens all the time and isn't a sign Collingwood were shitting themselves Cripps was going to win Carlton the game. Why wouldn't Collingwood try to engineer a Cripps/Pendlebury match up? It's not a case of Pendlebury trying to shut Cripps down like a tagger it's a case of exposing Cripps' unaccountability without the ball.

Consider this a footy lesson free of charge

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

But this is a stupid argument, I was backing up a fellow Carlton supporter because they were right. I'm really fussed if you believe it or not. This is a Clayton Oliver conversation and he is a gun. Melbourne now have hogan / petracca and Oliver. A great future. We only have Cripps plus a few question marks.

Selling a few short there. Docherty, Cripps, Weitering, Plowman and Marchbank are all 23 or under and shown enough to be best 22 and 10+ year players.
Good early signs from Curnow, Fisher, SPS, Silvagni and Williamson from a small sample size.

 

[Yakker]

..... Personally I think Oliver has a long way to go to get to Cripps' level...

.....

Personally I think Oliver is pretty much at Cripps' level but just hasn't been doing it for as long yet, not that Cripps has even been doing it long.
.....

and thats what it all boils down to. Now run out and play you two

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

It was a stupid argument because the original Carlton poster was stupid enough to suggest Collingwood had Scott Pendlebury applying a hard tag. What has happened since is you've shifted the goal posts and then told me to find a media report that probably doesn't exist.




If you understood a modicum of footy you'd know this happens all the time and isn't a sign Collingwood were shitting themselves Cripps was going to win Carlton the game. Why wouldn't Collingwood try to engineer a Cripps/Pendlebury match up? It's not a case of Pendlebury trying to shut Cripps down like a tagger it's a case of exposing Cripps' unaccountability without the ball.

Consider this a footy lesson free of charge

The original comment was: 'Pendlebury had to be shifted to a negating role on Cripps to stop him taking the game away from Collingwood'
If you actually saw the game, Cripps was dominating at the time and dragged us back within 2 kicks. Collingwood didn't have an answer and tried moving Pendles onto him to curb his influence. You've taken the term 'negating role' and turned it into 'hard tag'. Yes, they went head to head with the idea that Pendles would at least split the contested/clearance work with him and negate his influence on the game that was slipping out of Collingwood's control.
Sure, it's not the first time something like that has happened in a game, but it did happen and the commentators mentioned it at the time and I'm also confident that it was subsequently spoken about after the game, although perhaps not in the post game presser and maybe in the media that week.

It is exactly a sign that Collingwood were shitting themselves. They were losing control of the game and Cripps was dominating. They had tried others on him with little effect. It was a last resort.

 

[demondavey]

Hawthorn had multiple early draft picks and priority picks, Sydney had COLA/academies, Geelong got lucky with a few father sons before they changed the rules. Stop being such a "woe is me" Melbourne supporter. It had little to do with culture and more to do with selecting shithouse players.

Adelaide are one out of the box, their recruiting had been remarkable. I hope they win the flag this year.

You think our failure had little to do with culture? Have a look at Hawthorns premiership years and where there players came from.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

and thats what it all boils down to. Now run out and play you two

No

 

[Cudi_420]

Are we still talking about Oliver?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

OK, some people rolleyes didn't like the 'selective' stats that I posted earlier comparing Cripps and Oliver, so here is a revised version. I've included Cripps' 1st game, but still excluded Cripps' sub vest games. I have absolutely no doubt that this still won't be acceptable for one person. It's not about making one player better than the other, but about offering a fair comparison and there is no way of accounting for Cripps' two vest games when Oliver played none.
Oliver is an amazing player and to be at a level close to, equal to or even slightly better in some areas than Cripps after 19 games is a testament to his ability. Both still have areas of their games they need to work on, like outside/uncontested work, inside 50 delivery, kicking, scoreboard pressure, but they both seem young enough and determined enough to work on these.


EDIT: apparently you can't do a rolleyes in brackets

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Are we still talking about Oliver?

This is why this thread should be merged with the other young kid discussion thread. It always devolves into comparisons and talking about other players.
It's inevitable and not necessarily a bad thing. Also, most threads get derailed at some point.

 

[kozi]

Can someone tag me when the 8th Clayton Oliver thread comes out?

I'm froffing.

 

[Mofra]

Can someone tag me when the 8th Clayton Oliver thread comes out?

I'm froffing.

On current averages, only 6 more days to go

 

[Bic]

Not overrated. Just not a noted goal kicker. Played 19 games, I'll give him a bit of leeway on it just yet.

He is better than Parish, I'll give you that. Good drafting.

 

[Kickin Goals]

Best shade chaser since Voss!

 

[My name geoff]

It was a stupid argument because the original Carlton poster was stupid enough to suggest Collingwood had Scott Pendlebury applying a hard tag. What has happened since is you've shifted the goal posts and then told me to find a media report that probably doesn't exist.




If you understood a modicum of footy you'd know this happens all the time and isn't a sign Collingwood were shitting themselves Cripps was going to win Carlton the game. Why wouldn't Collingwood try to engineer a Cripps/Pendlebury match up? It's not a case of Pendlebury trying to shut Cripps down like a tagger it's a case of exposing Cripps' unaccountability without the ball.

Consider this a footy lesson free of charge

If you have Jack Crisp and Marley Williams playing on Cripps for three quarters and Cripps is dominating, then when the game is in the balance in the last (thanks to Cripps) you have Pendlebury move on to Cripps, playing from behind and wearing him like a glove at stoppages, what would you call that? I'm interested to know..

 

[Franc de Borges]

Says there's no precedent. Names a precedent.

 

[DangerSloane]

Sam Mitchell is Sam Mitchell. He doesn't need to kick goals and mark the ball because his field vision and play-making is some of the best we have ever seen. Super creative, super reliable.

Oliver just picks up the ball and handballs it to someone else to use it. He doesn't break the game open, he doesn't put pressure on the defense.

Again, thank you for illustrating why Olivers stats are misleading, because he clearly is no Sam Mitchell yet his stats suggest he is.

But you said he doesnt kick goals therefore he's not good.
That was YOUR statement.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You think our failure had little to do with culture? Have a look at Hawthorns premiership years and where there players came from.

The extent of our failure was due to poor recruiting and poor management.

Hawthorn had multiple early picks and priority picks, they could only get 13k to a game in 2004. They hit their picks and had the best modern day coach, that's why they were successful.

 

[demondavey]

The extent of our failure was due to poor recruiting and poor management.

Hawthorn had multiple early picks and priority picks, they could only get 13k to a game in 2004. They hit their picks and had the best modern day coach, that's why they were successful.

In 08-13 they had Hodge, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis. If you look at their premierships between 13-15 you'll notice significant late selections and trade ins.

I get what you're saying, and I also get that our picks weren't that bad. We ruined the chances our youth had because the club tanked ffs. Brock McLean admitted it openly. That's cultural, and it's a product of poor management and administration, not recruiting. You put any bunch of kids into a team where they are told to lose and you'll develop a bad environment and degrade their confidence.

We've only must turned the corner with Roos, let's hope Goodwin can move us to the next level.

 

[demondavey]

He is better than Parish, I'll give you that. Good drafting.

Apparently Roos was shocked he was touted to go between 10-20. It was a shock at 4, but a good one.

 

[Trav 20]

OK, some people rolleyes didn't like the 'selective' stats that I posted earlier comparing Cripps and Oliver, so here is a revised version. I've included Cripps' 1st game, but still excluded Cripps' sub vest games. I have absolutely no doubt that this still won't be acceptable for one person. It's not about making one player better than the other, but about offering a fair comparison and there is no way of accounting for Cripps' two vest games when Oliver played none.
Oliver is an amazing player and to be at a level close to, equal to or even slightly better in some areas than Cripps after 19 games is a testament to his ability. Both still have areas of their games they need to work on, like outside/uncontested work, inside 50 delivery, kicking, scoreboard pressure, but they both seem young enough and determined enough to work on these.
View attachment 365874

EDIT: apparently you can't do a rolleyes in brackets

We know Oliver's first year was nothing special, although he did poll Brownlow votes in his first ever game.

It's his second year that is the focus.

Tallying his 13 games last year with this year will obviously paint a different picture.

 

[Trav 20]

In 08-13 they had Hodge, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis. If you look at their premierships between 13-15 you'll notice significant late selections and trade ins.

I get what you're saying, and I also get that our picks weren't that bad. We ruined the chances our youth had because the club tanked ffs. Brock McLean admitted it openly. That's cultural, and it's a product of poor management and administration, not recruiting. You put any bunch of kids into a team where they are told to lose and you'll develop a bad environment and degrade their confidence.

We've only must turned the corner with Roos, let's hope Goodwin can move us to the next level.

No players were ever "told to lose".

But yes, it was a horific culture and the tanking environment benefited no-one and hurt plenty.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

ermahgerd not another one.

And what a surprise, started by the same guy who started the last one who sooked that the greatness of Clarry had been tainted by having to discuss other players alongside his Oliverness

'a massive disservice...'

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

We know Oliver's first year was nothing special, although he did poll Brownlow votes in his first ever game.

It's his second year that is the focus.

Tallying his 13 games last year with this year will obviously paint a different picture.

How is that any different to most other players? This year he has taken a massive leap, but his first 13 games were still pretty damn handy. There's nothing wrong with looking at his first 19 games as a whole. His first 50 will certainly look bloody good and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in front of Cripps' first 50 in pretty much every category.
Some bloody exciting young players coming through.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

In 08-13 they had Hodge, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis. If you look at their premierships between 13-15 you'll notice significant late selections and trade ins.

I get what you're saying, and I also get that our picks weren't that bad. We ruined the chances our youth had because the club tanked ffs. Brock McLean admitted it openly. That's cultural, and it's a product of poor management and administration, not recruiting. You put any bunch of kids into a team where they are told to lose and you'll develop a bad environment and degrade their confidence.

We've only must turned the corner with Roos, let's hope Goodwin can move us to the next level.

Others have tanked, didn't harm them as much as it's alleged to have harmed us. I don't buy it.