The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state our game is in

[Rod Stroker]

Every North supporter I know really likes Kayne Turner?

What have you got against him?

He's being silly. Turner is a pressure animal.

1 min to go with our season possibly ending..

 

[Jibroni]

Menzel still has the talent but doesn’t work hard enough for today’s game, just like Jeff Garlett. It’s a shame in some respects.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Menzel still has the talent but doesn’t work hard enough for today’s game, just like Jeff Garlett. It’s a shame in some respects.

I don't think it's a matter of effort. I just think he lost a lot of pace and mobility with the knee issues. While he still has some quality assets as a player, the Menzel we've seen the last few years is quite different from what he was looking to be prior to his reconstructions.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Saints have already ruled him out. As have Blues and Lions. Given they don't want him for zero cost, and he attracted almost zero interest in the trade period, maybe the Cats are making the right decision.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/cats-not-offering-a-contract-to-menzel-20181024-p50bq8.html

Going to the Saints would have been a bad move with all their Etihad games.

 

[Grumpy HalfCat]

Sad for him personally but not for the club. We have had too many passengers this year, and delisting Menz and Murdoch shows intent to accept nothing but maximum effort

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Dan Menzel welcome to Gold Coast

 

[BruceTempany14]

Is it a state of the game problem or a Geelong list management problem? I find it bizarre that Geelong of all teams would delist a 40 goal a year forward considering their forward stocks.

Agree. Maybe not enough room for two.Injury prone enigmas ( Garry Rohan, the contracted player Geelong got from Sydney but then refuse to trade Kelly fir same reason , but I digress ) . And then Dalhous . They will need a lot of things to go right to make finals , top 12 for that matter.


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[Catters 070911]

In a different reality, Daniel Menzel would be one of the biggest stars of the competition.

Firstly, I am surprised that Geelong held onto Menzel as long as we had. I was someone who thought that maybe we should have delisted Menzel, Vardy, McCarthy and Cowan. It may seem harsh, but for three years, we had four spots on our list with players who didn't play one game. I felt that we should have delisted them after the third season that they were unavailable, and used the spot to draft four youngsters, hopefully more durable, who would be playing in their sixth or seventh season by now, and would have strengthened our team. Cowan and McCarthy especially were clogging our list, and didn't get games even when they weren't injured.

Secondly, my understanding is that Menzel may want to leave Geelong as well. I believe that the main reason, rather than his lack of tackling, is that he wants a two-year contract at least. Geelong are only prepared to give him one year at the most.

I can see both sides. Menzel wants security and to be rewarded for his form by getting a longer contract. It would be a show of faith in him by the club.

However, I can see Geelong's point of view as well. If Menzel does another knee, he is finished in the game. There is no coming back. Geelong don't want to sign Menzel for two years, he do a knee in Round 1 next year, and then that money is tied up in the salary cap for two seasons. Geelong have been prepared to carry him for one season, and even if he goes down again, the club can carry his salary for the rest of the season. But two or more seasons is a big risk for a guy with four knee reconstructions.

Also, notice how no other club tried to trade for him in trade period. That is because he is a risk, and no club wants to give two years to a guy who might go down again.

I wouldn't be surprised, if there are no other takers for Menzel in the draft, then we might re-list him. He will be playing for a club next year, but no club wants to give up picks for someone who is injury-prone, whereas, as a DFA or in the draft, it is a free hit, and a risk worth taking.

Things were hampered by him missing weeks this year, because of the infection. If the club are going to delist Menzel, they should also let go the incompetent medic who injected Menzel in the wrong area. Someone like that is dangerous, and who knows what other medical stuff-ups they could do, and Menzel could have had a worse reaction to the needle.

Maybe Menzel is sick of the imcompetence of our medical staff. Firstly, after his first knee reconstruction, they wanted him to get LARS, and then he did his knee in first quarter back, when he came back to early IMO. He then missed the next eighteen months, and I feel that it increased his chance of getting the third and fourth ACLs.

Our medical team has done him no favours, and maybe at another club, he might get proper treatment which will let him play regularly, to the point where he gets a two year contract. But while we persist with such dolts running our medical team, our players will continue to spend a lot of time getting injury recurrences, and I hold our medical and conditioning staff majorly responsible for our horror injury run and our performance this year. We need to put the broom through it.

Yes, Daniel Menzel is talented, and if he had not had knee problems, he would have been a superstar, and we wouldn't have delisted him. He would have got more than two years, and would be happy. But fate has dealt him a cruel hand, and like Alex Johnson at Sydney, we will never see how good he could have been.

 

[MowShow]

Why should talent be rewarded/valued any more than hard work?

Not saying Menzel hasn't/doesn't work hard (to come back from where he has,requires it), obviously he has been super unlucky with injuries but the reality is he applies very little forward pressure these days. Generally kicks a couple goals but has almost no impact outside a few disposals (oftentimes allowing defenders to runoff him/rebound with freedom).

This thread is disrespecting players who have worked their asses off to have the fitness base they have/where they are and implying more talented players should have the right of passage over players who are limited but get the best out of themselves.

My heart goes out to Menzel and I sincerely hope he gets another chance elsewhere but his delisting shows nothing other than the game moving in a direction different to your perspective.

 

[DannyJ]

Good OP.

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[BruceTempany14]

Peter Daicos

Jeff Hogg


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[Topkent]

Not always the case though. Many sports focus on a player's strengths and exploit that. NFL, Rugby for example. Cricket is an excellent example too.
Specialist players make games interesting, and footy is losing the idea of specialist players and moving forward a "total football" kind of sameness.

Quarterbacks don't need to kick well.
Rugby forwards don't need to be fast.
Baseball pitchers don't need to be ambidextrous.

AFL coaching has become a huge exercise in mitigating weakness (and in that I include opposition strength) instead of exploiting strength.

Great post.
The key forwards these days are pathetic compared to 15 years ago. Blokes can't kick on both feet, they handball over their head because they can't use both hands.
Where are the Roccas who can kick it 70m. Would be reak handy in a game where everyone flooded back.
It's so boring now.

 

[Catters 070911]

Geelong should be ashamed of themselves for throwing him on the scrapheap, its not like he was the only one way runner there with no defensive game.

We could have delisted him years ago when he missed four seasons with injury. I don't remember all you supporters at other clubs patting us on the back for retaining him then.

Besides, wasn't St. Kilda interested in Menzel, and prepared to trade for him? What happened to that lifeline?

 

[Catters 070911]

Is it a state of the game problem or a Geelong list management problem? I find it bizarre that Geelong of all teams would delist a 40 goal a year forward considering their forward stocks.

If you as a WCE supporter are so worried about our forward stocks, maybe you should have traded Josh Kennedy or Jack Darling to us for Tim Kelly.

 

[Cicatriz]

Is it a state of the game problem or a Geelong list management problem? I find it bizarre that Geelong of all teams would delist a 40 goal a year forward considering their forward stocks.

He's never kicked 40.

 

[Catters 070911]

I don't think he's lost to the game...just Geelong.
I'm confident he will get picked up by another team....surely!

Maybe Carlton should have a look at him.

 

[Stumpy Pete]

Geelong making harsh calls on players? Gee, never seen that before.

Talent to burn but not the body. Another team will pick me up for sure.

Outed yourself Dan?

Regards

S. Pete

 

[Antares]

Geelong was the 4th highest scoring team last season; goal kicking isn’t their problem, forward defensive pressure is. And that was with Menzel missing a lot of the season.

They should have kept Menzel; I wish they had. But part of that is on a pure emotional level and well coaches can’t really think like that.

Stat padding against rubbish teams like Fremantle at the end of the year isn't worth taking note of. Your team couldn't score against Melbourne in the finals, and that was without Lever.

 

[jezzajay]

Maybe Carlton should have a look at him.

I'm not opposed to it as long as the club does its due diligence in regards to his body etc.

 

[thecatattack]

Not always the case though. Many sports focus on a player's strengths and exploit that. NFL, Rugby for example. Cricket is an excellent example too.
Specialist players make games interesting, and footy is losing the idea of specialist players and moving forward a "total football" kind of sameness.

Quarterbacks don't need to kick well.
Rugby forwards don't need to be fast.
Baseball pitchers don't need to be ambidextrous.

AFL coaching has become a huge exercise in mitigating weakness (and in that I include opposition strength) instead of exploiting strength.

AFL isn't like that though.

AFL you need all skill requirements.

It's going the way of NBA with positionless basketball which I don't think is bad tbh

 

[Coach_Required]

So what OP is trying to say is Richmond ended Menzels career ..... how cute.

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[Bunk Moreland]

Yep. It’s pretty ridiculous that a bloke kicking goals like that won’t be in the AFL.

Game changes I spose.

 

[Footy 1st]

We could have delisted him years ago when he missed four seasons with injury. I don't remember all you supporters at other clubs patting us on the back for retaining him then.

From what I remember that's exactly what happened, a whole thread saying he was amazing and Geelong were upstanding..

 

[Rich01]

From what I remember that's exactly what happened, a whole thread saying he was amazing and Geelong were upstanding..

Menzel was lazy. Like Motlop. Chris Scott has developed a culture of indifference in Geelong. His inability to develop young talent is a major flaw.

 

[its free real estate]

Great post.
The key forwards these days are pathetic compared to 15 years ago. Blokes can't kick on both feet, they handball over their head because they can't use both hands.
Where are the Roccas who can kick it 70m. Would be reak handy in a game where everyone flooded back.
It's so boring now.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks key forwards aren't what they were. Once upon a time, even your bog standard centre half forward could kick a goal around 60m out. Now only the very best do it.

Every player has been turned into gazelle.