The I Was Right thread

[CatToTheFuture]

The low ToG and low disposal productivity of our midfielders not only being unsustainable but the BS spin that it was by design was utter nonsense.

Atkins 12
Bruhn 10
Bowes 13
Holmes 20 (inj)
Dangerfield 24

v

Neale 31
Dunkley 28
McCluggage 27
Ashcroft 22
Berry 20

Just not enough from our engine room. Smith will be a welcome addition to a very weak and fragile group, who rely on a 34yo.

Smith is a required but insufficient addition i think. We're still a decent mid short with him in

 

[numbwombat]

The low ToG and low disposal productivity of our midfielders not only being unsustainable but the BS spin that it was by design was utter nonsense.

Atkins 12
Bruhn 10
Bowes 13
Holmes 20 (inj)
Dangerfield 24

v

Neale 31
Dunkley 28
McCluggage 27
Ashcroft 22
Berry 20

Just not enough from our engine room. Smith will be a welcome addition to a very weak and fragile group, who rely on a 34yo.

We were in front with 2 minutes to go. We have 4-5 genuine “inside mids” / contested groundball winners / whatever you want to call them, and a fleet of top-shelf half forwards / outside mids, and the coaches have made that work.

Bailey Smith (and other trades, and improvement from Dempsey/Clark/Knevitt/Clohesy) will make us better but “unsustainable”? We made a prelim in what most people thought was a rebuild year - this post belongs on the Richmond board

 

[Footy Smarts]

The low ToG and low disposal productivity of our midfielders not only being unsustainable but the BS spin that it was by design was utter nonsense.

Atkins 12
Bruhn 10
Bowes 13
Holmes 20 (inj)
Dangerfield 24

v

Neale 31
Dunkley 28
McCluggage 27
Ashcroft 22
Berry 20

Just not enough from our engine room. Smith will be a welcome addition to a very weak and fragile group, who rely on a 34yo.

We had more inside 50s and would've won the game but for our poor conversion. Watching the game it definitely didn't feel like a flogging in midfield. It was transition where we couldn't stop them.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We were in front with 2 minutes to go. We have 4-5 genuine “inside mids” / contested groundball winners / whatever you want to call them, and a fleet of top-shelf half forwards / outside mids, and the coaches have made that work.

Bailey Smith (and other trades, and improvement from Dempsey/Clark/Knevitt/Clohesy) will make us better but “unsustainable”? We made a prelim in what most people thought was a rebuild year - this post belongs on the Richmond board

We had more inside 50s and would've won the game but for our poor conversion. Watching the game it definitely didn't feel like a flogging in midfield. It was transition where we couldn't stop them.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

It didn't hold up.
Football wasn't going to be reinvented with this method.

 

[sleep]

Smith is a required but insufficient addition i think. We're still a decent mid short with him in

Butters + Reid

 

[Footy Smarts]

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

It didn't hold up.
Football wasn't going to be reinvented with this method.

Name the 3 players to get 30+ in the 2007 GF. Go on. I guess our midfield didn't hold up that day either.

Seriously the focus of stats is the dumbest of dumb footballing analysis. But don't let that stop you taking a victory lap on the grave of our season.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Name the 3 players to get 30+ in the 2007 GF. Go on. I guess our midfield didn't hold up that day either.

Seriously the focus of stats is the dumbest of dumb footballing analysis. But don't let that stop you taking a victory lap on the grave of our season.

When did this become the safe haven to only say things that are positives? We did well this season but have been eliminated, we have flaws. They can be spoken about.

Just like your argument.

Our top 3 mids that year went at 26.7 and a goal. 26. 27.5 (and a Brownlow). With good drive off halfback from Milburn and Enright. Both 22. Which was matched with strong clearance performance and a bullet proof best 22.

We were league leaders in this regard, as there was 1 player who got it more - Kane Cornes.

Fast forward to 2024 and our disposal, clearance and contested possession performance is not only not back with the back, it's lagging behind. In the modern game of spread and transition running we have Bowes, Atkins, Bruhn, Clark and Parfitt who are all poor in that regard and we end up with nights like last night, and it is no wonder we're after Smith via trade. It is no wonder Carlton, Western Bulldogs, Port, Gold Coast, Sydney and St.Kilda all exposed us through our poor midfield.

Our performance at clearance and contested possession as measured by opposition differential average for 2023-24 are the lowest rankings under Chris Scott. Fact. In those two years we are objectively poor at both aspects of the game. Fact.

As for the last line, there are those who think our midfield numbers are by design and acceptable. Then there's those that are right.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Butters + Reid

A man can dream

 

[Footy Smarts]

When did this become the safe haven to only say things that are positives?

It's not. Say whatever negative stuff you want.

But your first response to us losing a close final was bumping the "I was right" thread. Seriously?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

When did this become the safe haven to only say things that are positives? We did well this season but have been eliminated, we have flaws. They can be spoken about.

Just like your argument.

Our top 3 mids that year went at 26.7 and a goal. 26. 27.5 (and a Brownlow). With good drive off halfback from Milburn and Enright. Both 22. Which was matched with strong clearance performance and a bullet proof best 22.

We were league leaders in this regard, as there was 1 player who got it more - Kane Cornes.

Fast forward to 2024 and our disposal, clearance and contested possession performance is not only not back with the back, it's lagging behind. In the modern game of spread and transition running we have Bowes, Atkins, Bruhn, Clark and Parfitt who are all poor in that regard and we end up with nights like last night, and it is no wonder we're after Smith via trade. It is no wonder Carlton, Western Bulldogs, Port, Gold Coast, Sydney and St.Kilda all exposed us through our poor midfield.

Our performance at clearance and contested possession as measured by opposition differential average for 2023-24 are the lowest rankings under Chris Scott. Fact. In those two years we are objectively poor at both aspects of the game. Fact.

As for the last line, there are those who think our midfield numbers are by design and acceptable. Then there's those that are right.

Agreed, but some people are carrying on a bit much over it (which I guess is normal after such an emotional toll).
Perspective is important. We had our equal worst ladder finish last season (but let's be honest, that's said tongue in cheek...), well we finished 12, a mile off even making finals, and while losing/not playing key senior players Hawkins, Cuthrie, SDK, Tuohy and Duncan as a sub we finished 10 points short of a Grand Final, with a heap of players in the team playing important roles with very little experience.
Now yes those senior players are cooked/injured, but tell someone 6 months ago that those players would be missing and that we'd have Humphries holding down a very important role off half back, Neale as our key tall forward, Mannagh and Mullin playing important roles through the middle and I reckon most of us would expect we'd be missing finals all together.
So I agree, we have flaws and they absolutely need to be spoken about and debated on where improvement can come from, but perspective takes away a fair bit of that acid that some are posting with IMO.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

It's not. Say whatever negative stuff you want.

But your first response to us losing a close final was bumping the "I was right" thread. Seriously?

Sorry, I'll take a deli ticket next time and wait for my number to be called.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Sorry, I'll take a deli ticket next time and wait for my number to be called.

Pretty sure we use those numbered flashing tiles now.

 

[Two Planks]

The forwards just don't compete hard enough in the air. Neale and O Henry whilst still young are two of the least competitive players to represent this club. Game after game this year we have made some average defenders look like superstars because our forwards just stand and watch them take uncontested intercept marks. It doesn't help when your superstar forward in Cameron is also very reluctant to compete in the air. Our forwards also like to play for the joe the goose out the back rather than actually lead and present to the ball carrier. To watch a first year player like Logan Morris compete like he did last night should be the bench mark for our two "pretty" footballers going forward.

 

[iameviljez]

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

It didn't hold up.
Football wasn't going to be reinvented with this method.

But for a couple of small moments we could have won that game.

Like it or not, we do not have the likes of Ashcroft, Neale, Zorko, Dunkley and McCluggage in the middle - so we have to try and find a way to equalise. I doubt we'd be doing it if we had a better midfield hand.

If we went for a straight shootout of 2024-level Stanley, Danger, Holmes, Bruhn, Atkins, Bowes vs McInerney and those mids, we cannot win. We would get absolutely pulverised.

 

[iameviljez]

The forwards just don't compete hard enough in the air. Neale and O Henry whilst still young are two of the least competitive players to represent this club.

I call bullshit.

Henry just managed to kick four goals from 15 touches in a prelim. If you get that kind of effort out of Stengle as well, we win. He was in our best last night.

Neale does hit packs hard - the issue is just holding on to those grabs. Another two years will hopefully bring that out.

 

[Commando]

I call bullshit.

Henry just managed to kick four goals from 15 touches in a prelim. If you get that kind of effort out of Stengle as well, we win. He was in our best last night.

Neale does hit packs hard - the issue is just holding on to those grabs. Another two years will hopefully bring that out.

Yeah I think Neale getting a bit of a raw deal in the review
Tried hard, just couldn't grasp a couple, could have had a couple of frees and Stengle flew over to concede a free when he looked like taking one

Wasn't great but not the worst

 

[iameviljez]

Yeah I think Neale getting a bit of a raw deal in the review
Tried hard, just couldn't grasp a couple, could have had a couple of frees and Stengle flew over to concede a free when he looked like taking one

Wasn't great but not the worst

I don't think Hawkins would have done any better, tbh.

 

[Warhorse]

I was right about Bruhn. Likely cost us the Prelim. 10 disposals as a mid

 

[catempire]

The forwards just don't compete hard enough in the air. Neale and O Henry whilst still young are two of the least competitive players to represent this club. Game after game this year we have made some average defenders look like superstars because our forwards just stand and watch them take uncontested intercept marks. It doesn't help when your superstar forward in Cameron is also very reluctant to compete in the air. Our forwards also like to play for the joe the goose out the back rather than actually lead and present to the ball carrier. To watch a first year player like Logan Morris compete like he did last night should be the bench mark for our two "pretty" footballers going forward.

You’d benefit from some study of down the ground vision in to see how badly the ball was kicked to them.

 

[Cataholic]

I was right about Bruhn. Likely cost us the Prelim. 10 disposals as a mid

I'd nominate multiple missed sitters, multiple dropped marks, repetitive fumbling, panic, and simply being unable to keep our feet as reasons for the loss before Bruhn.

 

[D BRIDGE]

I was right about Bruhn. Likely cost us the Prelim. 10 disposals as a mid

As people know, I'm not a fan of his.

I went really hard on him early and have pulled up to give him time.

Possibly every concern I had 2 years ago about him I still hold today.

He is yet to make me eat my early words and look silly (I want him to).

He needs a big season next year and I hope he goes crazy and has one.

66 games into him so it should be go-time... although I see minimal upside (similar with Clark).

Not quite Chad Warner... Not quite Bruhnlow.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I call bullshit.

Henry just managed to kick four goals from 15 touches in a prelim. If you get that kind of effort out of Stengle as well, we win. He was in our best last night.

Neale does hit packs hard - the issue is just holding on to those grabs. Another two years will hopefully bring that out.

I agree on the first bit re henry.

On the second bit i heard the same said about Sav for years ie his hands and kicking and footy IQ will improve. Well guess what friday night his kicking and hands and IQ were still terrible. Neale has time on his side but i wouldnt be that confident he doesnt end up like Sav so we will need a plan B in case he doesnt improve.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

But for a couple of small moments we could have won that game.

Like it or not, we do not have the likes of Ashcroft, Neale, Zorko, Dunkley and McCluggage in the middle - so we have to try and find a way to equalise. I doubt we'd be doing it if we had a better midfield hand.

If we went for a straight shootout of 2024-level Stanley, Danger, Holmes, Bruhn, Atkins, Bowes vs McInerney and those mids, we cannot win. We would get absolutely pulverised.

Translation: you agree our mids aren't at the level of the rest of the league.

 

[iameviljez]

Translation: you agree our mids aren't at the level of the rest of the league.

that's not a translation, that's a direct input into what I said.

We have the worst midfield in the top 8, frankly the coaching staff have worked miracles to get us a different way to win.

 

[iameviljez]

I agree on the first bit re henry.

On the second bit i heard the same said about Sav for years ie his hands and kicking and footy IQ will improve. Well guess what friday night his kicking and hands and IQ were still terrible. Neale has time on his side but i wouldnt be that confident he doesnt end up like Sav so we will need a plan B in case he doesnt improve.

Hence the hopefully - progression is rarely linear, and never guaranteed.

For every Holmes, there's a Jordy Murdoch, GHS, Taylor Hunt or Billie Smedts, who all looked the goods early but somehow never got better. And that's before injuries.

He is far from a Sure Thing to make it, but the hard part is that tall forwards are the rarest commodity.