Both teams benefited from the trade, not often that happens 
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The Judd Trade - Are Carlton better off?
- Thread starter Jay-Z
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We tried, to their credit West Coast weren't interested.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
If the question is are Carlton better off with Judd - I simply don't see how the answer is no. They have a multiple AA midfielder and are playing finals football regularly.
If the question is did they win the trade - that's rather subjective - as it looks, both sides appear to have come up apples - so it's a matter of whether you prefer Fujis or Pink Ladys. Premierships will be the ultimate decider.
If the question is did they win the trade - that's rather subjective - as it looks, both sides appear to have come up apples - so it's a matter of whether you prefer Fujis or Pink Ladys. Premierships will be the ultimate decider.
Shadow Hunter
Senior List
This trade was easily one of the most fair trades, we were crying out for a leader, someone the kids would learn from, Judd has been a massive influence on Murphy, Gibbs etc and because of that we are starting to become a good team. WC also won they have a good CHF and they are playing finals, win/win for both teams I am sure WC and Carlton are very happy.
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People are pigeon holed into a thought process that even in a scenario that can be win-win, one side has to win more than the other.
When you give up someone of the football quality of Chris Judd, there's always going to be a gaping hole and team management issue, however Kennedy serviced a massive need that West Coast had not successfully transitioned into. The recruiting of players such as Shuey, Selwood and Gaff are making the midfield loss of Judd somewhat tolerable as Waite returning to fine form makes the loss of Kennedy tolerable for acquiring Judd.
Trades should never be isolated into a we won this you lost that. Invariably, there's hidden factors that always demonstrate themselves over time.
The trade was fair, but those suggesting that Kennedy has been equal to Judd since they changed teams is kidding themselves. Kennedy has shown what he is capable of in a few games and had a good season last year. I think he is being rated partly on potential and he is thought of as a "young" player (he is 25 this season), whereas Judd is being compared to what people think they remember of his past deeds and considered "old" (he is 29 this season).
Also, premierships won't be any sort of decider. They are won by a team, not an individual player. The effect Judd has had on Carlton after he retires will be greater than the effect Kennedy is likely to have on West Coast when he retires.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Kennedy is 4/5 years younger than Judd playing key position, one would hope he hasn't performed as well.
And premierships will be a fair decider. You are right that it's a team game - but both teams have been considerably altered to accommodate the trade. If Carlton can't get the job done because their forward line can't stand up or West Coast's midfield is too weak - then that's a fairly sure sign.
The last comment is a little funny, just because West Coast wasn't on it's knees doesn't mean we can't come out in front. Let me assure you, if Kennedy is involved in a flag or two - that effect will be larger than simply mojo.
Kennedy is almost exactly 4 years younger than Judd.
Kennedy - Born 25 August 1987
Judd - Born 8 September 1983
Not too many 30yo KPP running around in the AFL over the last few seasons. Kennedy basically has 3 or 4 years to win the Eagles a premiership.
Carlton are better off, yes. The intangibles that the trade and arrival of Judd brought to the Carlton Football Club in terms of self-belief, mentoring for young midfielders, lead-by-example development, sponsorship, media attention, etc, etc means Carlton are better off. This was a club stuck in its worst ever period, and Judd's arrival accelerated that resurgence immeasurably on and off the field.
That does NOT mean, though, that West Coast "lost" the trade.
Chris Judd told West Coast he wanted to go home; West Coast had "already lost" Judd. So to get, for an out of contract player (even a great one), Josh Kennedy, pick #3 and pick #20 was a very very solid return. "Worth it"? Maybe not. Would West Coast have offered it? "Hey, we're moving Juddy and we want Kennedy, #3 and #20!" No. But it's worked out OK for the Coasters.
These are now two excellent teams, and one suspects that the road to ultimate success for either one will need to go through the other. I've got a helluva lot of time for West Coast. They're seriously good, and seriously deep.
That does NOT mean, though, that West Coast "lost" the trade.
Chris Judd told West Coast he wanted to go home; West Coast had "already lost" Judd. So to get, for an out of contract player (even a great one), Josh Kennedy, pick #3 and pick #20 was a very very solid return. "Worth it"? Maybe not. Would West Coast have offered it? "Hey, we're moving Juddy and we want Kennedy, #3 and #20!" No. But it's worked out OK for the Coasters.
These are now two excellent teams, and one suspects that the road to ultimate success for either one will need to go through the other. I've got a helluva lot of time for West Coast. They're seriously good, and seriously deep.
astroboy4800
Senior List
It's funny because...We smashed you in Melbourne
whats funnier is that it was at ethiad stadium and thats a smaller gound then the g r subi and if you actually know the blues spee actually benefits them playing on the bigger grounds
so its any wonder we pushed you to 2 points and ran you ragged
try doing so when they have waite, kreuzer and hampson in the team
ýes fun times indeed in melb
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Happy to see the Eagles fans are happy with the trade - finally!
I know the Carlton fans are so lets move on and call it a draw, shall we.
I know the Carlton fans are so lets move on and call it a draw, shall we.
All we have learned from the last few years is that this trade has been a win-win. Kennedy will be a leading KPF and Judd is a midfield great. Add in Masten, and minus Armfield and I reckon we're pretty close to even. Win-win.
The other win-win for both clubs is that both have demonstrated to all other clubs that they're interested in fair trades. That augurs well for future trading. Some clubs know how to pursue fair outcomes, and some don't. I won't bother to name names.
A final note to all those, including the media, who continue to wonder how good Carlton would be if they traded Fev instead of Kennedy. WCE didn't want Fev. They had reputation issues, if you remember. Fev was the last bloke they wanted or needed. It's a straw man this argument. When will the media get it?
The other win-win for both clubs is that both have demonstrated to all other clubs that they're interested in fair trades. That augurs well for future trading. Some clubs know how to pursue fair outcomes, and some don't. I won't bother to name names.
A final note to all those, including the media, who continue to wonder how good Carlton would be if they traded Fev instead of Kennedy. WCE didn't want Fev. They had reputation issues, if you remember. Fev was the last bloke they wanted or needed. It's a straw man this argument. When will the media get it?
Galileo9
Premiership Player
lets see...The eagles are an awesome team and have great talls quality talls actually.
But beating a carlton team less then a kick, a dubious decision that favoured the eagles all by the way in perth????
Minus waite, kreuzer, thornton, jamieson, gibbs and hampson.
Yes fun times indeed when we cane your r... ends in melb on the big one
ellard kicked 2 goals AND had 2 goal assists...i imagine he and o hailpin would have gone out for waite and gibbs. and walker kicked 3 after creating a mismatch, would all those things have happened if waite played? he would have had to have had a pretty good game against a AA full back. ellard had an outstanding game. cant argue taht gibbs isnt an upgrade.
Hampson was shit last year so please...
kruezer comes in OK, but still wouldnt have won that many more taps. so really him not
convinced, with his bad form, that he would have changed anything.
thornton - he played in that game. at least get THAT fact right.
jamison - would have come in for henderson? a guy who had 17 posessions and 8 marks...pretty good game. set up a few.
you have alot of talls coming in, but i dount that would have happened and like many carlton fans, dont consider who wouldnt have played and then what kind of games the replacements had.
not to mention, ur start and last few mins mask the fact that really, we dominated most of the game and had we not started waiting for the siren, margin would be alot more comfortable.
Gibbs would have made the difference ...even with all our injuries ..a half competent umpire would have made the difference ..look forward to meeting the eagles on the G this year .
laminex
Go Blues.
Have you watched him play at all, the guy is a great second tier player. This year is a going great and looking good with his play making and kicking which was a huge knock on him last year.
laminex
Go Blues.
spot on, the fact is Carlton are a great club to trade with.
If you look at how we trade we offer fair deals and take fair deal for players. We don't hide medical reports to stick it to other teams we don't offer pick 45 for Judd like the other would.
W/C got a as fair a deal as any team could offer.
They also got a player with a great attitude and is fantastic with the kids on family days.
Dixie Flatline
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Personally, I prefer the crisp crunch of granny smith apples over fujis and pink lady apples.
There are arguments on both sides.
I think the hype over Judd's leadership is slightly overblown. Judd brought a new era of professionalism to the Blues but that doesn't mean that had Judd stayed with the Eagles or gone to Collingwood, Carlton couldn't have rediscovered that professional culture through other means. I also tend to think that the best of Judd is behind him and while he remains an amazing player, he is not in the penthouse suite of blue chip midfielders.
However, there's no doubt that Judd has made a big difference to Carlton since he joined the Blues, both on-field and off.
Kennedy probably would have stagnated behind Fevola. Moving to the Eagles and becoming their focal point up forward in my view accelerated his development as a player and I don't see that happening at Carlton.
All in all, Carlton is better off after the Judd trade.
Seriously poor post and one that indicates complete lack of knowledge of our list.
Jamieson played the game but was on one leg.
Yes Thornton played but was injured and out at half time.
Gibbs would have replaced Davies (you may remember him as the player who gifted you a second goal)
Kreuzer would have replaced Setanta.
Waite probably would have replaced Thornton or another midsize.... don't know.
Hampson was injured and a long way from shit at the time of the injury, was actually keeping Warnock out of the team.
My recollection was that you hit the front just before half time (courtesy of Davies brain snap, whacked a bit of a gap on us in the 3rd quarter after the loss of our 5th tall and were outplayed in the last. Is that the definition of "domination"?
You had the best 2 ruckmen in the league rucking against Warnock and we were down to 4 players over 190cms for the last half of the game.
You were too good on the day but it was your home game, you were at full strength and too tall, we were seriously undermanned and yet still almost got the chocolates. Fail to see how a team can dominate but win by less than a kick and you have serious worries if you were waiting for the siren in a knock out semi. Truth is you were down for the count.
all i hear are excuses, really.
i actually wonder if some of you guys believe half the things you say.
in regards to 2011, we finished higher than you and beat you twice. WCE were a better team than Carlton in 2011. Fact.
As for 2012...we've only just begun, both teams look pretty promising. We'll have to wait and see.
BUT, if you guys beat us, it's only because we didn't have LeCras.
i actually wonder if some of you guys believe half the things you say.
in regards to 2011, we finished higher than you and beat you twice. WCE were a better team than Carlton in 2011. Fact.
As for 2012...we've only just begun, both teams look pretty promising. We'll have to wait and see.
BUT, if you guys beat us, it's only because we didn't have LeCras.
Dixie could you tell me which midfielders are in the penthouse suite of blue chip midfielders in front of Judd.
Ablett would be one but cant think of too many others.
Dixie Flatline
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I'm partial to the work of Priddis, Scott Thompson (Adelaide), Pendles and Ablett.
Perhaps I'm over-exaggerating Judd's decline but I think he doesn't play his best games against Hawthorn over the years so that's what I tend to remember.
Perhaps I'm over-exaggerating Judd's decline but I think he doesn't play his best games against Hawthorn over the years so that's what I tend to remember.
Good post. Agree entirely, WCE played the team that was put on the park and won. It was a great game, an absolute blinder however no ifs and buts, they were too good and they won.
Shadow Hunter
Senior List
Agree I hate when people make injury excuses etc, WC were the better team but only a 3 points better team, Carlton are still taking small steps and I think every Blues fan is happy where the club is heading.
Most Carlton supporters are just annoyed at West Coast having a relatively easy run with injuries compared to Carlton. The fact that West coast went on to play like crap against Geelong the following week didn't help too. Oh but I'm sure you believed that West Coast would still have been beaten by 50+ by Geelong if your team wasn't carrying injuries.
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