Society/Culture The left do not represent the poor anymore

[geelong_crazy26]

To some extent taxation is about wealth and income redistribution.

It is what democratic progressive societies do.

10% of the population pays tax, 100% of the population benefits from taxes.

I just made a thread about the benefits of low taxing society I suggest you have a read .

The idea that high taxes just simply take from the rich and gives to the poor is false .

The rich already have their wealth while the poor and middle class have a greater need to generate their wealth .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Jeez how did 10% of people get so much income?


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The rich are already rich , what about an aspirational poor or middle class person who wants to get ahead ? it is so much harder in a high taxing society

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I think the trick is to be born to wealthy parents, and it's probably your own fault if you're not. I take no issue with being born with a silver spoon in your gob, some people are lucky, it's just a shame his ended up in the wrong hole.

Of course.

It has the added bonus of enabling you to lecture others on how to live their lives and to sermonize about issues of which you have no understanding (eg poverty).

See that is such a negative opinion to have of the poor , your a basically saying poor people are born poor and will always be poor . I would say to any poor person that good decisions and hard work will lead to a better life .

 

[sherb]

See that is such a negative opinion to have of the poor , your a basically saying poor people are born poor and will always be poor . I would say to any poor person that good decisions and hard work will lead to a better life .

Neither of us made a commentary on the poor.

But if I did, it would be one of empathy. A quality it would help you to acquire and embrace.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Neither of us made a commentary on the poor.

But if I did, it would be one of empathy. A quality it would help you to acquire and embrace.

Can you explain how I am showing a lack of empathy towards the poor ?

You and some others on this board have repeatedly said the poor are poor because they are born to poor parents .

How about you actually explain why a child from a poor family can not do well at school ,go on to university, go into a industry that pays well, work hard and make a good living ?

 

[Chief]

See that is such a negative opinion to have of the poor , your a basically saying poor people are born poor and will always be poor . I would say to any poor person that good decisions and hard work will lead to a better life .

Guaranteed?

 

[sherb]

Can you explain how I am showing a lack of empathy towards the poor ?

You and some others on this board have repeatedly said the poor are poor because they are born to poor parents .

How about you actually explain why a child from a poor family can not do well at school ,go on to university, go into a industry that's pays well, work hard and make a good living ?

Actually I haven't repeatedly said that at all.

Empathy means you try to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Which, if you possessed it, would mean you could understand the difficulties and obstacles to achieve what you posed in your final question - rather than taking the moral high ground and making it sound oh so easy - eg "oh, just make the right decisions and it's a piece of piss!" (paraphrasing).

You need to get out of your bubble and experience some of the real world. It's not as simple as you would think out there.

 

[Gough]

Neither of us made a commentary on the poor.

But if I did, it would be one of empathy. A quality it would help you to acquire and embrace.

We can add sarcasm to empathy as qualities our boy fails to understand.

 

[sherb]

We can add sarcasm to empathy as qualities our boy fails to understand.

Yes, I can still recognize tongue in cheek when I see it. And play along.

 

[Gough]

Yes, I can still recognize tongue in cheek when I see it. And play along.

If you've had the good fortune not to come across Caleb Bond, Google the little moppet. He's just I'd imagine matey here.

 

[yebiga]

The rich are already rich , what about an aspirational poor or middle class person who wants to get ahead ? it is so much harder in a high taxing society

On one level your absolutely right
On the other the macro level your wrong.
Have you ever played the board game monopoly?
If the government doesn't dampen excess wealth too few own too much and the many are chasing there tail just to avoid going to jail or even hoping to go to jail.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Guaranteed?

Obviously there are going to be exceptions to anything but in the majority of cases yes people can do something to make some more money . I don't say that to be cruel but to be optimistic .

I have always accepted that some people have disabilities that prevent them from taking care of themselves and a humane society we have got to look after them . This is also the liberal party position .

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Actually I haven't repeatedly said that at all.

Empathy means you try to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

Which, if you possessed it, would mean you could understand the difficulties and obstacles to achieve what you posed in your final question - rather than taking the moral high ground and making it sound oh so easy - eg "oh, just make the right decisions and it's a piece of piss!" (paraphrasing).

You need to get out of your bubble and experience some of the real world. It's not as simple as you would think out there.

That also works two ways , perhaps some people who are not so well off could learn from people who are well off ?

Look I have asked so many times and I cant get an answer what are these barriers that are making poor people always poor ?

 

[sherb]

Look I have asked so many times and I cant get an answer what are these barriers that are making poor people always poor ?

At the moment, you are sprouting off your "perfect world" theories about people with zero understanding of their life experiences and battles. So my suggestion to you is this.

Don't speak to someone to me about it, I am just a middle class dude who has the benefit of being an empathetic human being, which I am very grateful for.

Instead, get yourself into the real world and go and speak to people suffering from poverty and also to those who deal with these people.

Ie, get off the ivory tower, out of the bubble and develop an understanding of what you are pontificating about and then get back to us.

 

[sherb]

If you've had the good fortune not to come across Caleb Bond, Google the little moppet. He's just I'd imagine matey here.

Never heard of him. Just looked him up.

I hope he is the exception rather than the rule for today's youth.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

At the moment, you are sprouting off your "perfect world" theories about people with zero understanding of their life experiences and battles. So my suggestion to you is this.

Don't speak to someone to me about it, I am just a middle class dude who has the benefit of being an empathetic human being, which I am very grateful for.

Instead, get yourself into the real world and go and speak to people suffering from poverty and also to those who deal with these people.

Ie, get off the ivory tower, out of the bubble and develop an understanding of what you are pontificating about and then get back to us.

I do speak to lower class people as a liberal party volunteer and obviously the party does lots of research and gets lots feedback .

What the poor want is to have a better income and lower costs of living . The best ways to achieve this is to lower taxes and get rid of any climate change policy that's pushing up the costs of energy .

 

[Matt Stevic]

You know what disproportionately hurts the poor? Poker machines. Joan Kirner's ALPokies delivered the biggest 'screw you' imaginable to Victoria's disadvantaged back in the early nineties.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

At the moment, you are sprouting off your "perfect world" theories about people with zero understanding of their life experiences and battles. So my suggestion to you is this.

Don't speak to someone to me about it, I am just a middle class dude who has the benefit of being an empathetic human being, which I am very grateful for.

Instead, get yourself into the real world and go and speak to people suffering from poverty and also to those who deal with these people.

Ie, get off the ivory tower, out of the bubble and develop an understanding of what you are pontificating about and then get back to us.

Something else that needs to be mentioned again is who do you think benefits most from large immigration intakes ? big business does because it means more demand for their goods and services while for the poor it means they have to settle for lower wages and paying more for those goods and services .

The left are the side that's pushing for high levels of immigration when it helps big business and hurts the poor.

 

[yebiga]

Can you explain how I am showing a lack of empathy towards the poor ?

You and some others on this board have repeatedly said the poor are poor because they are born to poor parents .

How about you actually explain why a child from a poor family can not do well at school ,go on to university, go into a industry that pays well, work hard and make a good living ?

The other matter your overlooking is that where your father and most small to medium business are merit based and will reward hard workers this is not necessarily the case as companies become larger or monolithic.

 

[Number37]

See that is such a negative opinion to have of the poor , your a basically saying poor people are born poor and will always be poor . I would say to any poor person that good decisions and hard work will lead to a better life .

There is a fair bit of research, actual research, not incoherent factless musings on the internet that show disadvantaged backgrounds are call disadvantaged for a reason.

For example, kids from lower socio economic communities don't do as well as others at school. If you want to learn more about that, read Gonski.

 

[Number37]

I just made a thread about the benefits of low taxing society I suggest you have a read .

The idea that high taxes just simply take from the rich and gives to the poor is false .

The rich already have their wealth while the poor and middle class have a greater need to generate their wealth .

It is not an idea, that is what actually happens.
The govt collects $450bn in taxes every year and every year it spends $450bn.
It doesn't spend the money only in communities where people pay tax. i.e. It redistributes it all over the country. Roads, hospitals, schools.... to benefit people who may or may not pay tax themselves.

 

[Collingwoodity]

The other matter your overlooking is that where your father and most small to medium business are merit based and will reward hard workers this is not necessarily the case as companies become larger or monolithic.

GC26 is correct imo: The poor remain poor and the average company becomes monolithic because of this thinking.

Increasing taxes and regulation on SMEs is the worst thing for an economy.

1. Whether you believe trickle down economics works at all is irrelevant: less profit means less money to spend on the business which includes wages.
2. The poor cannot progress to become an owner of a SME with the increased costs of regulations/taxes whereby an existing SME can. Less SMES means less competition means larger monolithic companies means more tax avoidance means less taxes to help the poor to become not poor.
3. The incumbent governments should target SMEs (i.e. cafe owners, law firms, accounting firms, restaurants, mechanics etc) for tax breaks whilst targeting monoliths for tax increases.
4. Under the system proposed of greater opportunity for SMES if a poor person is not rewarded for hard work at one SME, they should leave to another SME or create their own.
5. I am not sure of the criteria for a poor person in this discussion but I assume it is someone who earns under $45,000.

 

[Taylor]

I am not sure of the criteria for a poor person in this discussion but I assume it is someone who earns under $45,000.

Which is still the top 1.32% in the world.

 

[Power Raid]

GC26 is correct imo: The poor remain poor and the average company becomes monolithic because of this thinking.

Increasing taxes and regulation on SMEs is the worst thing for an economy.

1. Whether you believe trickle down economics works at all is irrelevant: less profit means less money to spend on the business which includes wages.
2. The poor cannot progress to become an owner of a SME with the increased costs of regulations/taxes whereby an existing SME can. Less SMES means less competition means larger monolithic companies means more tax avoidance means less taxes to help the poor to become not poor.
3. The incumbent governments should target SMEs (i.e. cafe owners, law firms, accounting firms, restaurants, mechanics etc) for tax breaks whilst targeting monoliths for tax increases.
4. Under the system proposed of greater opportunity for SMES if a poor person is not rewarded for hard work at one SME, they should leave to another SME or create their own.
5. I am not sure of the criteria for a poor person in this discussion but I assume it is someone who earns under $45,000.

it's interesting though as some political parties want big business so employment is centralised. by centralising employment into big business or government run business, they can pork barrel industry for votes. thus making themselves relevant to the electorate.

better still by centralising employment, each individual is simply reduced to a meaningless cog and number. thus the need for their foundation being the unions and of course this leads to kick backs and institutionalised corruption.

sadly though, many can't see this through the emotion that surrounds employment.

 

[Power Raid]

Which is still the top 1.32% in the world.

It's quite scary to think about it that way. I appreciate purchasing power parity is a better guide but to think 99% of people do it really tough.