the massie trade

[SurreyBlue]

Just another pathetic trade/draft from previous administration/coaching department. These are the reasons we are in this prediciment.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

I just didn't expect Eccles to be dreadful at Carlton because he wasn't that bad for us.
At the time, Eccles for Massie only seemed slightly stacked in our favour in my view. I liked Eccles. Knew he wasn't too good but seemed on the same page as Massie.

Didn't Eccles play in the '98 Premiership?

 

[Mad Dog]

Massie is one of those players who is too good for SANFL / VFL level - but really needs to work hard to succeed at the next level. When I watch him against Norwood he looks like an AFL player biding his time. Injuries have held him back a bit at the AFC and as a result hasn't been able to string games together regularly....

2002 - 16 games
2003 - 13
2004 - 12
2005 - 3
2006 - 10 out of 12.

With 8 or 9 first choice players out Mass has got his chance and has grabbed it with both hands. The thing about Craigy is he expects player 23 to 40 to come in and perform seamlessly and is quite happy to retain those players in the side even when others become available. Hopefully he will remain injury free and continue to perform.

I'm certainly wrapped we got him for Eccles...and as far as Gallagher is concerned...I would have accepted a half eaten ham sandwich as trade

 

[Mad Dog]

Didn't Eccles play in the '98 Premiership?

Yep - 41 games for the AFC - 18 in 1998 including the GF

 

[Bronx Bomber]

i know its all hindsight, but massie was the one kid i picked whilst watching our ressies that i knew would be good...to lose him and nelson (who?) for 2 absolute DUDS eccles and gallagher...gee wizzzz....

Like you said it hindsight...but you know there was a time when we got trades right, not often but it happened such as.........

Matthew Lappin & Pick #58 (Ian Prendegast) -----> Carlton
Pick #22 (James Begly) & Pick #53 (Troy Schwarze) ------> St.Kilda

Now looking at that trade, Prendegast is a spud and Begly is no longer at the club, so it is effectivly Matthew Lappin for Troy Schwarze........

I think we might have won out of this one??

 

[blues4flag]

Just another pathetic trade/draft from previous administration/coaching department. These are the reasons we are in this prediciment.

Agree. The amount of stuff ups during that period is laughable.

 

[DIG]

Always funny how everyone is an expert years after the fact........should have.......could have.......why didn't we?.........fair dinkum, every club has a similar storey to tell when it comes to drafting, especially during the 90's where it was an inexact science compared to the amount of time, effort and resources clubs devote to recruiting now.

For every Massie, Vance & Livingston there is a Fisher, Hamill & Simpson.

I can't fault some of our speculative late round drafting over recent years, but to get not just one wrong but Massie, Vance, Livingston and Sporn, all first round picks so horribly wrong is inexcusable and has cost us dearly over the long haul.

So in Carlton's case, yes unfortunately it's far TOO easy in hindsight to fault our first round drafting through that period.

And it doesn't take an expert to see that.

 

[Gets!]

I can't believe you don't think Massie would be in your top 5?

Oh well, we'll have him! He's enjoying his footy at Adelaide and it shows on the park.

Maybe he didn't like how things were at Carlton?

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Maybe he didn't like how things were at Carlton?

Why would you say that? He was traded, he didn't leave.

FWIW Fevola, Whitnall, Murphy, Stevens, Lappin, Scotland, Walker, Fisher, Thornton, Kennedy..would all be ahead of Massie.

 

[SA Blue]

Massie is one of those players who is too good for SANFL / VFL level - but really needs to work hard to succeed at the next level. When I watch him against Norwood he looks like an AFL player biding his time. Injuries have held him back a bit at the AFC and as a result hasn't been able to string games together regularly....

2002 - 16 games
2003 - 13
2004 - 12
2005 - 3
2006 - 10 out of 12.

With 8 or 9 first choice players out Mass has got his chance and has grabbed it with both hands. The thing about Craigy is he expects player 23 to 40 to come in and perform seamlessly and is quite happy to retain those players in the side even when others become available. Hopefully he will remain injury free and continue to perform.

I'm certainly wrapped we got him for Eccles...and as far as Gallagher is concerned...I would have accepted a half eaten ham sandwich as trade

About the end of the debate.

 

[Gets!]

Why would you say that? He was traded, he didn't leave.

FWIW Fevola, Whitnall, Murphy, Stevens, Lappin, Scotland, Walker, Fisher, Thornton, Kennedy..would all be ahead of Massie.

Massie >>> Scotland, Thornton, Walker. And you can't include Kennedy haha!

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Massie >>> Scotland, Thornton, Walker. And you can't include Kennedy haha!

Why can't I include Kennedy? He would be chosen in our side before Massie would.

Scotland is in the top 10 in the AFL for disposials.

Okay if you believe that Massie is better than Walker & Thornton, then what about Simpson, Waite, Houlihan, Koutofides?? All would get a game ahead of Massie.

 

[Gets!]

Why can't I include Kennedy? He would be chosen in our side before Massie would.

Thats why he has given 27 minutes of game time against us?

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Thats why he has given 27 minutes of game time against us?

What did you choose to ignore the 10 players I mentioned.

All of -
Fevola
Whitnall
Murphy
Stevens
Lappin
Scotland
Simpson
Waite
Houlihan
Koutofides

would get a game before Massie, but according to you he would be in our top 5?

 

[Gets!]

Now you are just going off on a tangent.

Massie >> Scotland, Simpson, Kouta, Houlihan, Lappin.

The others are better than Massie.

BTW this is factual. No argument necessary.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Now you are just going off on a tangent.

Massie >> Scotland, Simpson, Kouta, Houlihan, Lappin.

The others are better than Massie.

BTW this is factual. No argument necessary.

How is it factual

2006 STATS
Scotland - 289 Disposals, @ 26.2 Per Match, 3 Goals.
Simpson - 185 Disposals, @ 16.8 Per Match, 4 Goals.
Kouta - 189 Disposals, @ 17.1 Per Match, 6 Goals.
Houlihan - 252 Disposals, @ 22.9 Per Match, 2 Goals.
Lappin - 197 Disposals, @ 19.7 Per Match, 3 Goals.


Massie - 168 Disposals, @ 16.8 Per Match, 0 Goals.

So all the players above have more and average more disposals than Massie this year, have kicked more goals than Massie. So how is it factual?

 

[Gets!]

Massie has more class and his things like tackles and smothers are second to none.

End of argument.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Massie has more class and his things like tackles and smothers are second to none.

End of argument.

Gee you changed your agrument quickly then.

Scotland - 31 Tackles
Simpson - 30 Tackles
Kouta - 41 Tackles
Houlihan - 22 Tackles
Lappin - 23 Tackles

Massie - 26 Tackles

Anything else.

 

[Walshy_The_Goat]

I was really disappointed when we traded him as i believed he possessed talent and that it was yet to be found. I think it just came down to impatience with Brittain, but what i didn't understand as to why he took a gamble on what would be a second tier player in Eccles who was evidently on the outer from the Crows. While he isn't yet a consistent player by any length, there is no doubt that he would benefit our current side.

Nevertheless it's good to see that he has come on in leaps and bounds over in Adelaide. Top stuff by Massie.

 

[WTTF]

I can't fault some of our speculative late round drafting over recent years, but to get not just one wrong but Massie, Vance, Livingston and Sporn, all first round picks so horribly wrong is inexcusable and has cost us dearly over the long haul.

So in Carlton's case, yes unfortunately it's far TOO easy in hindsight to fault our first round drafting through that period.

And it doesn't take an expert to see that.

My point is we were not the "lone ranger" with our poor drafting in the early years of the draft. The other point to remember is the draft didn't really become what is is today until after 1991 following the abolition of the U19's and Zones.

You were happy with McKay and Camporeale as First Rounders though I presume?

 

[Free Willy]

Massie has more class and his things like tackles and smothers are second to none.

End of argument.

Stick to trolling dude....


Facts & reason are not your strong point.

Your getting your pants pulled down here.


ps - I think its great he has done well, I would think most if not all Carlton supporters would wish him very well.
As for regrets... meh, he hasnt exactly achieved Hamil like achievements & has hardly bit us on the bum.

But yes, by his standards he is having an outstanding year.

(Notice the "by his standards" reference).

 

[jo172]

Scotland - 31 Tackles
Simpson - 30 Tackles
Kouta - 41 Tackles
Houlihan - 22 Tackles
Lappin - 23 Tackles

Massie - 26 Tackles

Anything else.

Divide them all by minutes on the ground this season and i think you'd have Massie on top.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Divide them all by minutes on the ground this season and i think you'd have Massie on top.

Oh okay so he's a star becuase he sit's on the bench and lays alot of tackles?

 

[crowsarethebest]

Oh okay so he's a star becuase he sit's on the bench and lays alot of tackles?

He's a good solid player and he would certainly benefit Carlton if he was still player there. He should be the perfect replacement for Ben Hart.

 

[Stanton]

I cant believe some Adelaide supporters are putting Massie in the same bracket as Kouta. Massies played about 5 or 6 good games for Adelaide in about 5 years. Kouta obviously been a superstar, in my opinion putting massie and kouta in same breath is a joke. A bit like comparing my horse in the paddock to phar lap.

Massie would have been delisted by now from Carlton, he was lucky that he wasnt delisted by Adelaide, good on him for improving and playing a few good games. Not in our top ten either currently. Our problem is our fringe players, Massie would be handy if he could put his current form on the park for Carlton.

Get a hold off yourself Adelaide fans, you won the minor premiership last year and didnt make the grand final, besides Adelaide is the most boring place in the world with the worst beers also.