The need for a crumber

[jsher098]

Found some interesting champion data stats relating to crumbing possessions from Carlton players- as at end of R15.

A crumb is: A type of groundball-get that is won by a player at ground level after a marking contest. The player must not be involved in the original contest. Crumbing Possessions can be either hardball or looseball-gets.

Michael Gibbons: 16 crumbing possessions, which = 9% of his total disposals
Charlie Curnow: 14 crumbing possessions, which = 10% of his total disposals
David Cunningham: 13 crumbing possessions, which = 10% of his total disposals

Compare to the numbers of the 'best' crumbers:
Jack Higgins (30), Kayne Turner (29), Sam Gray (28), Brendon Matera (26), Gary Ablett (25), Nick Holman (25) Jamie Cripps (25), Christian Petracca (25), Eddie Betts (23) etc.

Most other clubs seem to have a dedicated 'crumber'. Would you say this should be high up on Carlton's trade targets for this season? I know there has been talk about Papley, but he has only had 14 crumbing possessions and seems to play more as a lead up forward.

 

[HARKER]

Of course it is, as without them we won't be able to maximise the three tall forward set-up we're carrying.

Yes, midfielders will and have to drift forward and rotate through there, but let's not be too clever and end up with another ECurnow, Polson & Gibbons forward set-up leading into the next pre-season. We know Teague wasn't a fan of that debacle.

Goal-kickers more than crumbers.
We need players that can find the ball, create goals and be able to win one-on-one contests, whether they be 175 or 187 cms.
Can't have fumblers in the forward line if you want goals from them. Not enough time to play a juggling act and then expect to kick a goal.

 

[thylacine60]

great thread - is a crumber what we refer to as a small forward? if so can he play a defensive role too? well?

 

[bmaurizio]

Of course it is, as without them we won't be able to maximise the three tall forward set-up we're carrying.

Yes, midfielders will and have to drift forward and rotate through there, but let's not be too clever and end up with another ECurnow, Polson & Gibbons forward set-up leading into the next pre-season. We know Teague wasn't a fan of that debacle.

Goal-kickers more than crumbers.
We need players that can find the ball, create goals and be able to win one-on-one contests, whether they be 175 or 187 cms.
Can't have fumblers in the forward line if you want goals from them. Not enough time to play a juggling act and then expect to kick a goal.

Agree, that's why I like Kennedy and Fasolo both have a nose for a goal one touch reliable kick at goal, if given reasonable ball supply, both should be inclusion against the Demons.

 

[HaydossJ]

Found some interesting champion data stats relating to crumbing possessions from Carlton players- as at end of R15.

A crumb is: A type of groundball-get that is won by a player at ground level after a marking contest. The player must not be involved in the original contest. Crumbing Possessions can be either hardball or looseball-gets.

Michael Gibbons: 16 crumbing possessions, which = 9% of his total disposals
Charlie Curnow: 14 crumbing possessions, which = 10% of his total disposals
David Cunningham: 13 crumbing possessions, which = 10% of his total disposals

Compare to the numbers of the 'best' crumbers:
Jack Higgins (30), Kayne Turner (29), Sam Gray (28), Brendon Matera (26), Gary Ablett (25), Nick Holman (25) Jamie Cripps (25), Christian Petracca (25), Eddie Betts (23) etc.

Most other clubs seem to have a dedicated 'crumber'. Would you say this should be high up on Carlton's trade targets for this season? I know there has been talk about Papley, but he has only had 14 crumbing possessions and seems to play more as a lead up forward.

Good find and makes for an interesting discussion. I've watched every Sydney game this season and IMO Papley has played a lead up role due to the absence of Buddy and the inexperience of Blakey. In fact, he's often isolated inside 50 playing as the deepest forward (out of necessity). Sydney also press up the ground a lot compared to other sides, meaning there aren't many forward 50 entries resulting in marking contests - it's often kicked into space where Papley, Hayward, Blakely can run onto it. When there is an opportunity to crumb, Papley is one-touch, goes in hard, and finds the goals. Adding him into our forward line at the feet of Harry, Charlie, and Mitch would be immense.

 

[HaydossJ]

great thread - is a crumber what we refer to as a small forward? if so can he play a defensive role too? well?

Yes his tackling and pressure is great. He loves niggling and going in hard as well (similar to how Newman goes about it).

 

[jsher098]

In terms of the current Carlton forward tackling pressure:
Tackle efficiency = % of attempted tackles that are effective

Ed Curnow: 80% ( I know he has started to play a lot more in the midfield since Teague has come in, but these %s have been very high all year)
Jack Silvagni: 70%
Michael Gibbons: 69%
David Cunningham: 65%
Paddy Dow: 57% (spends a lot of time up forward at the moment from what I have observed under Teague)

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Not a dedicated role, but a skill you want all your small forwards to have. Have one dedicated crumber whose job is to get to the feet of every marking contest isn't really practical

 

[Blue and Blue]

Hmmmmmmmm....we tossed you Crows a few crumbs.
Still no flag despite it.

 

[thylacine60]

great thread - is a crumber what we refer to as a small forward? if so can he play a defensive role too? well?

just realised op is not a carlton supporter - ridiculous idea for a thread - shut it down.............

 

[jsher098]

just realised op is not a carlton supporter - ridiculous idea for a thread - shut it down.............

very hostile!

 

[footyfan1978]

great thread - is a crumber what we refer to as a small forward? if so can he play a defensive role too? well?

We need a crumber, quick goal sneak, pressure forward and opportunist.
Down the other end of ground we also need someone that can reduce the impact of such players in opposing team.
Get both and we set for the full dynasty next decade,

 

[thylacine60]

can't believe I'm saying this and my life won't be the same once she finds this post but.........what I'd give for a milne type - I said type!

 

[footyfan1978]

very hostile!

Sometimes they put a muzzle on him but allowed to roam at the moment.

 

[Aphrodite]

can't believe I'm saying this and my life won't be the same once she finds this post but.........what I'd give for a milne type - I said type!

 

[jsher098]

Sometimes they put a muzzle on him but allowed to roam at the moment.

yeah muffle prices have spiked recently, better to save some cash

 

[thylacine60]

knew it.........

 

[Blue and Blue]

Extinct and masochistic.......dont see that everday......

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Fella looks like he ate the last person wishing for a Milne type.

 

[slashin_velvet]

What do the crumbing stats look like vs goals - is there a correlation where more crumbing possessions equals more goals on average?

 

[Soapy V]

These stats are irrelevant when you have a young midfield and forward line.

 

[Faz 2000]

The stats are good to support it, but all one needs is eyes to see we lack effective, dangerous crumbing players.

We should be knocking at Richmond or West Coast's door for sure this off-season for a player with pace, goal-sense and uhhh... I guess high % of crumbed possessions. Both those sides seem to have them in abundance.

 

[james Dean]

These stats are irrelevant when you have a young midfield and forward line.

No they're not. We have very poor forward pressure, teams waltz out of our back 50 with ease. It is a clear issue with our team and list.

 

[Soapy V]

The stats are good to support it, but all one needs is eyes to see we lack effective, dangerous crumbing players.

We should be knocking at Richmond or West Coast's door for sure this off-season for a player with pace, goal-sense and uhhh... I guess high % of crumbed possessions. Both those sides seem to have them in abundance.

If you're going to get one get a very good one. Don't just get an average small forward or role player.

I have no doubt that once our midfield and forward line matures and gets more connected it won't an issue. It's why the more mobile forward line is working better.

Next year we will have Cripps Kennedy Jack Setterfield O'Brien Fisher Dow Walsh Stocker Cuningham Murphy Curnow SPS Gibbons DeLuca all fighting for positions on ball and up forward we have Owies Garlet Cottrell maybe Fasolo as options. And that's not including any recruits.

Our biggest issue at the moment (as it has been) is we are very young across the ground and have a lot of inconsistent performances. It has been hidden a bit by putting Murphy & Curnow back on ball but it's there. I expect a big improvement in 2020 with increased experience, some quality depth and another pre season.

 

[jsher098]

What do the crumbing stats look like vs goals - is there a correlation where more crumbing possessions equals more goals on average?

Unfortunately the crumbing stats aren't broken down any further