The off topic thread 6.0

[Bostonian]

Why are you so fixated on the ABS - do you work there? And if so, why not leave and join another organisation if you're so dissatisfied with their hiring standards?

I'm using them as an example as it's one garbage hiring standard I've seen close up.

Or would you prefer I just made shit up?

 

[SM]

I'm using them as an example as it's one garbage hiring standard I've seen close up.

Or would you prefer I just made shit up?

I mean at this stage there wouldn't be much difference if you did as no one can really verify most of what you're saying.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I think sometimes, as we’ve learnt in company diversity courses, people doing the hiring are more likely to hire people similar to them. And like it or not you can bring pre conceived ideas/stereotypes when judging candidates. Definitely more the past and still today although it’s improving. African kids today most certainly are discriminated against. Blacks in America were for ages and still are. Women of course as well .

But gee one white guy misses out and the whole system is too woke!

 

[Bostonian]

As I was not on the hiring panels for each and every employee in my organisation I have no idea what the specific criteria was for each hire, but what I do know is the organisation has ended up having a very diverse and rich pool of candidates for internal moves. You get that having a diverse workforce is actually a strength, right?

Diversity of job knowledge and skillset is great.

Any other diversity based on your gender, your "race", your culture, your sexual orientation has absolutely no bearing on your ability to be an asset as a worker.

 

[Bostonian]

I mean at this stage there wouldn't be much difference if you did as no one can really verify most of what you're saying.

Same with everything you type then I guess.

I take your posts at face value though.

 

[SM]

Same with everything you type then I guess.

I take your posts at face value though.

You're arguing against a broad practice because of one specific example you've cited from your organisation of helping someone with their resume. I'm arguing for the broad practice because of a wide range of positive results of the practice. Do you not see the difference?

 

[moomba]

Once again, this person wasn't an employee of this organisation.

They didn't offer these things to internal applicants or any other applicants for that matter.

So why would you offer to make a complete strangers resume up for them and then coach them up for the interview?

Because we want to give everyone an equal opportunity to show that they're the best person for the job.

 

[Bostonian]

You're arguing against a broad practice because of one specific example you've cited from your organisation of helping someone with their resume. I'm arguing for the broad practice because of a wide range of positive results of the practice. Do you not see the difference?

My first example was of an Aboriginal lesbian getting a job they were definitely not anywhere near as qualified for compared to other applicants.

It's like something out of one of those cornball jokes about diversity hires yet here in a real organisation (not ABS) this nonsense actually happened.

3 months in and the hire is obviously not up to any kind of standard and the manager is now having to deal with a hire they can't work with but can't get rid of either due to the hiring policy.


Diversity can be achieved by hiring the best people for the job.

That doesn't make those people diversity hires.

 

[Bostonian]

Because we want to give everyone an equal opportunity to show that they're the best person for the job.

Everyone?

So you'd help out 100+ people who don't work for the company with their resumes and interviews?

I'm calling nonsense on that.

 

[moomba]

Diversity can be achieved by hiring the best people for the job.

That doesn't make those people diversity hires.

Diversity recruitment is all about hiring the best person for the job.

And if we're going to pick up examples of bad, underqualified hires in companies I'm afraid white males are well on top of the list.

 

[moomba]

Everyone?

So you'd help out 100+ people who don't work for the company with their resumes and interviews?

I'm calling nonsense on that.

I don't tend to pay too much attention to CVs when I recruit, I find that speaking to people gives me a better idea if they'll be a good fit or not. Someone might have paid a professional to write a CV for them. Does that make them a better candidate?

But if anyone asked me for help with a CV or getting through an interview I'd certainly help, why wouldn't I?

One of my best hires ever was awful in interview and I was told by my boss not to give him the job. I saw something in him and gave him the job anyway. He thrived. His confidence went through the roof and he demonstrated skills I didn't have a clue that he had from the interview. Ended up staying longer at the business than I did until he got headhunted by a rival. He's now doing really
well in his new company.

 

[Bostonian]

Diversity recruitment is all about hiring the best person for the job.

And if we're going to pick up examples of bad, underqualified hires in companies I'm afraid white males are well on top of the list.

So they should not get the job because they are under qualified.

Just like anyone else.

Hiring "should" be about hiring the best person . Diversity has nothing to do with it.

Except in 2024 it's being used to do exactly what the people who whined about "boys clubs" claimed was the problem.

Hiring people based on something other than their qualifications and skills.

 

[SM]

My first example was of an Aboriginal lesbian getting a job they were definitely not anywhere near as qualified for compared to other applicants.

It's like something out of one of those cornball jokes about diversity hires yet here in a real organisation (not ABS) this nonsense actually happened.

3 months in and the hire is obviously not up to any kind of standard and the manager is now having to deal with a hire they can't work with but can't get rid of either due to the hiring policy.


Diversity can be achieved by hiring the best people for the job.

That doesn't make those people diversity hires.

So your example was irrelevant as it's an example of a bad hire not what Moomba, Planet or I are talking about.

 

[SM]

My previous manager helped prepare me for the interview for my current role within the same business. I don't see how helping someone prepare for an interview in order to give their best representation of themself is a bad idea.

 

[Bostonian]

I don't tend to pay too much attention to CVs when I recruit, I find that speaking to people gives me a better idea if they'll be a good fit or not. Someone might have paid a professional to write a CV for them. Does that make them a better candidate?

But if anyone asked me for help with a CV or getting through an interview I'd certainly help, why wouldn't I?

It means they took the time to have one prepared and present it to you as is generally a requirement of getting an interview.

If they are asking for your help at that stage then what's to say they won't be that kind of employee who never stops needing help in the work place.

Those employees bring productivity down when other employees are being taken from their work to constantly have to assist the under qualified worker.

If organisations go through agencies to filter out the poor applications then these kind of applicants should never get a look in anyway.

 

[Bostonian]

So your example was irrelevant as it's an example of a bad hire not what Moomba, Planet or I are talking about.

It's an example of a diversity hire.

Making diversity the reason for their hire was why it was a bad one.

 

[moomba]

So they should not get the job because they are under qualified.

Just like anyone else.

Hiring "should" be about hiring the best person . Diversity has nothing to do with it.

Except in 2024 it's being used to do exactly what the people who whined about "boys clubs" claimed was the problem.

Hiring people based on something other than their qualifications and skills.

Diversity recruitment is all about hiring the best candidate for the job.

Some just struggle when they come to realise that a white male isn't necessarily that person.

 

[moomba]

It means they took the time to have one prepared and present it to you as is generally a requirement of getting an interview.

If they are asking for your help at that stage then what's to say they won't be that kind of employee who never stops needing help in the work place.

Those employees bring productivity down when other employees are being taken from their work to constantly have to assist the under qualified worker.

If organisations go through agencies to filter out the poor applications then these kind of applicants should never get a look in anyway.

You keep on making this presumption that a person hired under diversity hiring practices is underqualified.

Diversity hiring practices are all about choosing the best person for the job.

If someone asks me to help them with a CV it doesn't mean they will be less productive, it doesn't mean they are less qualified. It just means they needed help with a CV.

For me I don't pay much attention to CVs anyway. A CV doesn't tell me much about a person's work ethic, their reliability and their ability to communicate. Which are the things that are most important to me.

 

[moomba]

It's an example of a diversity hire.

Making diversity the reason for their hire was why it was a bad one.

It's not an example of a diversity hire at all.

It would be like me citing an example of a company hiring a white male that underperforms as an example of why you shouldn't hire white males.

And it's really demeaning to women and minorities to suggest that they could only be hired for a job because of diversity policies. Make no mistake, that's exactly what the DEI hire references are intended to do.

 

[Bostonian]

It's not an example of a diversity hire at all.

It would be like me citing an example of a company hiring a white male that underperforms as an example of why you shouldn't hire white males.

And it's really demeaning to women and minorities to suggest that they could only be hired for a job because of diversity policies. Make no mistake, that's exactly what the DEI hire references are intended to do.

It's 100% a diversity hire.

They literally knew 20% of the knowledge and skills required for the role.

The other final applicants were in the 65-80% range.

Two different managers were overruled on their decision of not to hire her.

They were overruled and they both knew exactly why this person was hired over the other applicants and it wasn't because of the skills or knowledge they possessed.

How can you say that's not a diversity hire with a straight face?

 

[Bostonian]

You keep on making this presumption that a person hired under diversity hiring practices is underqualified.

Diversity hiring practices are all about choosing the best person for the job.

If someone asks me to help them with a CV it doesn't mean they will be less productive, it doesn't mean they are less qualified. It just means they needed help with a CV.

For me I don't pay much attention to CVs anyway. A CV doesn't tell me much about a person's work ethic, their reliability and their ability to communicate. Which are the things that are most important to me.

And you keep pushing the narrative that it requires a diversity practice to get these people a job.

If the policy is about hiring the best person for the job then you don't need a diversity policy at all.

You have your requirements already set out.

Best person for the job.

 

[Bostonian]

I mean that did a welcome to country in these job interviews.

Done by some guy who isn't even from Victoria.

The clown show just kept on delivering.

 

[SM]

I mean that did a welcome to country in these job interviews.

Done by some guy who isn't even from Victoria.

The clown show just kept on delivering.

What's the issue with this?

 

[Bostonian]

What's the issue with this?

Same issue I'd have if they started an interview off with a prayer.

It's a load of garbage that has nothing to do with the job.

 

[SM]

Same issue I'd have if they started an interview off with a prayer.

It's a load of garbage that has nothing to do with the job.

Is recognition of land a religion?

Load of garbage? Geeze.