The Official 2011 Fremantle Draft Thread

[Taylor]

With free agency, we could buy some sure things already developed rather than risk a top pick on a maybe.

 

[apuchar]

With free agency, we could buy some sure things already developed rather than risk a top pick on a maybe.

Possible. Bond and LLoyd have a long-term vision. they know who will be available in the next two drafts and who we are likely to get. Who will be out of contract and has expressed an interest in coming home. We are just not privvy. Some of the young talent watches like Chris 25, might have some idea what is coming through in the next couple of years.

 

[Nickos66]

What blind optimism? Who here is blatantly going "OMG WE WON THE DRAFT!!111!!!!111"

No one, that is who. The majority here are just staying on the fence and not having a serious melt down about not picking KPPs because NO ONE IS BLOODY PROVEN YET! Others are going on about how a forward line of Kersten and Pavlich would be awesome! Well, how would you know? How many AFL games has Kersten played?

I once again find myself relating to Clay when people start bending your interpretation of posts to justify their own. You are right, nobody is saying "ZOMG EPIC DRAFT WIN!!!!11!!11" But people all over are saying "Hmmm, I didn't see these selections happening but after reading such & such about them they sound like a such & such player. Arsum!" "Ooohh, another Barlow, another Mundy! etc.

The same stupid inane optimism every year leads to inevitable disappointment, be it 2-3 years later. My gripe is more players like Lockyer, Blee, Ah-Chee, Yeo etc being taken out from under us in favour of these players perceived by our drafters to be better fits that go on to die in the arse in record time under our colours over here in WA.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

In hindsight Fyfe is the runaway option - but at the time of the Draft, if the choice had been Fyfe or Darling - we (the supporters) would probably have wanted Darling, and missed out on something special.

True but unless their ceiling is freakishly and almost unexpectedly high you would just be adding depth to an area you were already okay or solid in. Unfortunately for us, that's flankers - its not as if we've drafted many pure mids over the last few years, which should have been the trade off IMO.

Like I said, at least one KPP coming through the ranks would have been a nice trade-off.

Anyway, I hope it all comes together once Moller and Head come onto the list and free agency delivers us some A-grade KPPs. Or we can unearth another Silvagni, because the reality of our list says we need to...!

 

[strobe00]

If Sheridan and Sutcliffe come on reasonably quickly, Broughton won't get much time in the midfield. Big question marks on his run the other way. Not an issue for Sheridan and Sutcliffe. That leaves him and Suban mostly in the backline.

Works for me. I forgot about Suban when I entered the reply. And then couldn't be bothered updating.

But both of those guys could do the job. Broughton's game sense makes up for a bit of a lack in pace, and Suban has enough toe and competitiveness to keep the small forwards quiet (if he can remain uninjured).

 

[apuchar]

Broughton Silvagni Dawson
McPhee McPharlin Suban

+Faulks Grover Johnson Anthony Forster
says we don't

 

[Arcassius]

Possible. Bond and LLoyd have a long-term vision. they know who will be available in the next two drafts and who we are likely to get. Who will be out of contract and has expressed an interest in coming home. We are just not privvy. Some of the young talent watches like Chris 25, might have some idea what is coming through in the next couple of years.

That's it hey. Like it or not we have to back in our recruiters for now. The only young talent watching I do is on the odd weekend sitting outside Ginos on a Saturday night.

 

[apuchar]

Works for me. I forgot about Suban when I entered the reply. And then couldn't be bothered updating.

But both of those guys could do the job. Broughton's game sense makes up for a bit of a lack in pace, and Suban has enough toe and competitiveness to keep the small forwards quiet (if he can remain uninjured).

I think that's the point. Improving our midfield has allowed us to strengthen our backline, which was weak last year.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

The only thing I would say to that is that the need is probably not a urgent as you are suggesting. Pav will play there next year. Sandilands will be up there more, Clarke will chip in. Bradley prefers to play across half forward, Anthony will probably be better with better kickers delivering to him and guys like Fyfe and Moribito will also play through there.
Next year may be a better year for talls. Darling is a third tall battering ram type and Freo seemed to think there were a lot of flaws in Kersten game (and character) that would take years to iron out, plus rightly or wrongly he was considered undersized. It may be quicker and more effective to get the real deal next year if available. I assume they know if that is likely.

All reports suggest next year will be better for talls, so yeah I hope you're right and we actually take some - its just the longer they leave it, the more they will have to take the real deal with every KPP selected, because there won't be any time left to pick talls that bust.

 

[Arcassius]

True but unless their ceiling is freakishly and almost unexpectedly high you would just be adding depth to an area you were already okay or solid in. Unfortunately for us, that's flankers - its not as if we've drafted many pure mids over the last few years, which should have been the trade off IMO.

Like I said, at least one KPP coming through the ranks would have been a nice trade-off.

Anyway, I hope it all comes together once Moller and Head come onto the list and free agency delivers us some A-grade KPPs. Or we can unearth another Silvagni, because the reality of our list says we need to...!

Yeah - I would guess our primary need is in A-grade KPDs. With a heap of agile, fast, goal kicking mids we're less reliant on requiring a pav up front.

 

[apuchar]

That's it hey. Like it or not we have to back in our recruiters for now. The only young talent watching I do is on the odd weekend sitting outside Ginos on a Saturday night.

Then you should leave it to our recruiters then. you're no use.

seriously though most of us thought Horsley would go in the main draft and some thought Blackwell would be selected as well. We don't have a wide enough view to make these judgements. I know we have a chequered history but Bond and Lloyd seem to know what they are doing. As well as most and better than some.

 

[Arcassius]

Then you should leave it to our recruiters then. you're no use.

seriously though most of us thought Horsley would go in the main draft and some thought Blackwell would be selected as well. We don't have a wide enough view to make these judgements. I know we have a chequered history but Bond and Lloyd seem to know what they are doing. As well as most and better than some.

au contraire my friend. sit with me on a saturday night and you'll see I have a very good eye for talent

The fact everyone let so many KPP slip through says a bit about the draft.

 

[apuchar]

All reports suggest next year will be better for talls, so yeah I hope you're right and we actually take some - its just the longer they leave it, the more they will have to take the real deal with every KPP selected, because there won't be any time left to pick talls that bust.

I agree we are cutting it fine. I think that is why the makeshift guys have been brought in, to fill the gaps in the meantime.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

Yeah - I would guess our primary need is in A-grade KPDs. With a heap of agile, fast, goal kicking mids we're less reliant on requiring a pav up front.

Yeh that's a good point, the mids will help us hit the scoreboard, plus Mundy/Mora/Fyfe/Barlow can all pinch-hit up there too.

But add a J. Brown or a young M. Pavlich and that'd be a pretty scary combination. Finals always seem to create the need for a gorilla or two.

But for now I'd quite happily settle for the next McPharlin.

 

[apuchar]

au contraire my friend. sit with me on a saturday night and you'll see I have a very good eye for talent

The fact everyone let so many KPP slip through says a bit about the draft.

No doubt. But alas I was talking about football talent on the field.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

That's it hey. Like it or not we have to back in our recruiters for now. The only young talent watching I do is on the odd weekend sitting outside Ginos on a Saturday night.

Nice

 

[Bradesmaen]

au contraire my friend. sit with me on a saturday night and you'll see I have a very good eye for talent

The fact everyone let so many KPP slip through says a bit about the draft.

It is like when most people had Panos as a top 20 pick, the next Pavlich and he lasted til around 4th round of the Rookie draft. Granted he has been upgraded to the senior list now, but I dont think he has debuted yet. Everyone was doing their nut at that, saying he was going to be a superstar. Haven't seen anything yet and what I can gather is that he is serviceable.. if that.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

I agree we are cutting it fine. I think that is why the makeshift guys have been brought in, to fill the gaps in the meantime.

Yep, have to assume that's the case. Let's just hope they're not banking on it as a long-term strategy because I doubt they're going to find many more Silvagni's that way.

Phew, nice discussion fellas Looking forward to seeing what we grab at the rookie draft - another Barlow, Lower or MDB would be nice.

 

[apuchar]

Cheers I'm off to follow the cricket. Warner not out 55 and Cowan not out 21 for Aust A. WA 0-37.

 

[Arcassius]

Yep, have to assume that's the case. Let's just hope they're not banking on it as a long-term strategy because I doubt they're going to find many more Silvagni's that way.

Phew, nice discussion fellas Looking forward to seeing what we grab at the rookie draft - another Barlow, Lower or MDB would be nice.

We have what? 5 rookie picks?

I hope we re-rookie Pearce, then pick up 3-4 KPP. I don't think we need more midfield depth with mora, mundy, barlow able to play a full season for once *touch wood* our on-ball division is looking good.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

For some reason Forster at 29 puts a downer on the draft for me atm. Markworth was still around, Kersten also and some other good players. Forster hasn't done that much year and only averaged 15 touches a game in the under 18 champs + we got plenty of HB flankers. I don't know what we were thinking overlooking Shane Nelson, Tunbridge even Manson with our later picks. Stoked with Sheridan and Crozier though! The draft certainly didn't pan out the way I though it would.

Forster is 189cm (same height as grover), and could grow another couple. making him 191 which is about KPB height. he is an all australian HBF with excellent skills, im happy with his selection

na 192cm...

lawyered

gold. i love himym

Well... I gotta admit I was a little annoyed, at first, that we didn't pick up any KP players or any WA lads. Then I realised that maybe the KPP / WA lads aren't that great talent-wise or just weren't available at the picks we had (i.e. We didn't rate them highly, if at all).

I also have the distinct feeling that Geelong picked Kersten because he wanted to be in Melbourne (prob cos he's originally a Vic?), and because they needed to replace Daniel Menzel next year (due to his knee injury).

Also... If Pav is a KPF why did he play as a mid last year and in 2010? Is it due to bad coaching? Or, not enough mids? Or, perhaps Freo are veering away from KPP to avoid the multiple matchups that happen on dangerous tall forwards? I'm no expert... but maybe they do have a plan (just not a public one).

first point. i was disappointed we didnt pick up kersten, or another KPF, however im thinking now, if the club dont rate him as a player, then why pick him up? i have seen enough BF draft reviews to know now that quite often people rate players who turn out hopeless, the only people who really know what they are talking about are the recruiters (most of the time anyhow)

on the second point... bad coaching is the answer, and i have heard ross lyon say that pav is a forward and will play forward in 2012

Exactly. You could add Harry Taylor to the list, but he was a reasonably early pick and a mature age player. Tarrant was drafted at #8 as well. Can add in Nathan Brown ... again a top 10 pick. Scarlett was a F/S.

Some people (e.g. Clay) refuse to realise that the draft is not a good option for picking talls, unless you have a top 10-15 pick. You might snare a good one later, but the odds are heavily stacked against you.

Better off trading for one after you have worked out they can play (or waiting till they are older like Silvagni and can make a better assessment of their abilities). Or rookie them and give them a few years to develop. I'm sure we will add a few in the rookie draft and hope for the best, but I'm sure they will mostly go the way of Mourish, Houghton, Murphy, Campbell, Shepperd, Polak and Sibosado. People act like we don't draft KPP ... but we have tried, and we have failed miserably. I'd say they have learnt their lesson.

Most sides only really have 2-3 genuinely good talls, if that. You can have all the average KPP you like, but the strike rate for good ones is around 4-5 each draft pool, including top picks.

yes, in general finding a good KPF at 16 is hard to do. and our history of recruiting KPF is abysmal. unfortunately, if we improve next year like i expect us to, we should still only have a pick after 10 which will again make it hard.

Where it stands is that we have a number of quality young players on our list, and competition for spots in midfield/flank positions is going to be strong. My overarching worry is that if McPharlin/Silvagni go down, or Pav is played midfield (or goes down), the cupboard is completely bare. As much as Lyon can bring a new game style, I still reckon we'll see some overall defensive weaknesses like that seen in the Hawks game at Subi this year, and massive forward line problems as seen for the majority of the second half of the year.

yep, it is a big worry. and i agree that we need to recruit KPP's. however if you dont rate a player i.e kersten, then recruiting someone purely for needs is a slipery slope to go down. If forster grows a couple of cm's he could very well be KPB anyhow. he is already the size of grover.

i also agree with you that our list management team are overrated at the moment. since 08 our recruits have largely boimbed out and the only ones who havent are pretty much all picks above 25. bond and lloyd need to get their average up.

The bemusing thing for me, and why I just can't be happy with our draft haul, is that we chose Forster (a third tall at best) over Kersten and others at Pick 29. Kersten lasting to 29 was a bonus we couldn't really afford to ignore (I'm sure Forster will be a decent 3rd tall but that's not the point)

We added midfield depth (needed) and flanker depth (the last thing needed), and no proper KPP (absolutely needed).

Swap Forster with Kersten or another KPP at 29 and suddenly our drafting is fine for a weak KPP-draft, considering we need mids too.

The reality is our KPP stocks are possibly the thinnest in the competition and we've done nothing about it in two drafts. Even if we want to develop a team of utilities, we need some tall players to defend or kick to... and they take longer to develop too.

Fingers crossed they've got plans for the rookie draft but I've lost the faith for now!

there is nothing saying that kersten is going to be that good, and nothing saying forster is going to be bad. forster is grovers height, he could even turn into a KPB. he is also creative and with great skills. as i have previously mentioned, i think recruiting players for needs is a slippery slope if you think other players available are clearly better. how much have you actually seen of forster? i havent seen anything, i could be wrong but im guessing you havent either.

im betting we take dobosz and busher as rookies and hope they come good.

hvaing said all of this, the depth of our KPP are a real concern, and with a bulk of the players we have recruited in the last 6 drafts having become duds, i am praying that we have gotten lucky.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

We have what? 5 rookie picks?

I hope we re-rookie Pearce, then pick up 3-4 KPP. I don't think we need more midfield depth with mora, mundy, barlow able to play a full season for once *touch wood* our on-ball division is looking good.

I think we have two extra this year due to GWS? Thought I saw that somewhere.

But yeah, I'd like them to re-rookie Pearce for depth. And grab 3-4 proper KPP too, mix of KPF and KPD.

If they do have those two extra spots, I wouldn't mind a Lee Spurr type and a Kyal Horsley type to add to the mix - always good to have plug and play depth that puts pressure on those in the team.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

Forster is 189cm (same height as grover), and could grow another couple. making him 191 which is about KPB height. he is an all australian HBF with excellent skills, im happy with his selection

gold. i love himym

there is nothing saying that kersten is going to be that good, and nothing saying forster is going to be bad. forster is grovers height, he could even turn into a KPB. he is also creative and with great skills. as i have previously mentioned, i think recruiting players for needs is a slippery slope if you think other players available are clearly better. how much have you actually seen of forster? i havent seen anything, i could be wrong but im guessing you havent either.

im betting we take dobosz and busher as rookies and hope they come good.

hvaing said all of this, the depth of our KPP are a real concern, and with a bulk of the players we have recruited in the last 6 drafts having become duds, i am praying that we have gotten lucky.

HIMYM is awesome.

Anyway, I'm not saying Forster is going to be a bad player, I think he'll actually be pretty handy from what I've heard (and no I haven't seen him play).

But unless he has a high ceiling (possible) or grows a few centimetres (less possible), he is just adding depth in an area we have solid cover for. Personally, I would have liked us to take the plunge on at least one KPP over the last two years instead of adding depth/talent to areas we've added depth/talent to already.

I don't think one KPP amongst a batch of flankers/utilities/mids is going to set us back very far if he only ends up being a Leigh Brown or a Kepler Bradley.

At the end of the day, the reality is we will have to draft KPP that play 100+ games with every KPP selected the longer we leave it, and hope to hell one or two of them are guns.

 

[apuchar]

I'm just about to hit a 2nd wind.

Seriously, I just can't subscribe to all this blind optimism... Again...

After recent years where our draft management have been seen as 'geniuses' and hailed as unearthing the 'bargain of the draft' repeatedly in favour of the heavily favoured selections we'd all hoped for leading up to the draft - where has it gotten us in recent drafts after the 1st 2 rounds. Players of the exact same esteem in Ruffles, Bollenhagen, Hall, Bucovaz, Hinkley, throw in 'the steals' in Crichton & Roberton and things really don't stack up the way we were believed to expect.

But then, we're not recruiters so we and every other team of recruiters in the country obviously just didn't see the divine plan. How is every single freo fan supposed to hold the same optimism that we have in the last few years following the draft when we have such NAB AFL draft fizzers.

That's very selective Nickos. How come you didn't mention Fyfe, Mellington, Ballantyne, Michie, Mayne, Clarke, Deboer Broughton, Barlow, Pitt, Mzungu probably Faulks etc. Not all picks are going to pan out, especially late picks. But the same applies to every club. We have had our fair share of hits. Bit annoyed about the miss with Houghton though.

 

[Nickos66]

Because I specifically said after the 1st 2 rounds. I'm talking about the NAB AFL draft here, the one where all the best kids in the country get drafted. I didn't mention last years draftees out of respect because they've barely been given 15 mins to prove themselves however I could've bent the story to fit them in and whinge that they didn't have the impact of Fyfe, Hill, Mora etc.