The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[King Harold]

So lets agree that there is no meaningful difference in their economic performance. The world economy didn't end during Trumps Presidency. In fact it thrived.

But that's not really the point, is it?

The real point is this:

Only one candidate is being predicted to destroy the world economy when it thrived under his previous term. One candidate is being predicted to literally blow up the world yet his nation started no new war under his previous term as President. One candidate is having misleading videos implying that he is a peice of shit racist when he calls a monster an illegal immigrant who r*ped, strangled and bashed to death a 22 year old nurse. One candidate is having misleading videos posted regarding his health policies. Only one candidate has literally been called Hitler.

Now because that misinformation suits leftist politics, leftists don't care that's all lies. In fact the self appointed protectors of truth cheer the lies on and lap it all up. That's the hypocrisy of the woke left.

Interesting you would reference misinformation and lies in your defence of a habitual liar
The irony

 

[Rookie]

Only one candidate has literally been called Hitler.

By no less than J.D. Vance.

 

[Werewolf]

They also pay payroll taxes and sales tax. Most probably pay taxes at a higher percentage than the uber rich bastards that exploit their cheap labor. Then the rich bastards funnel some of that money they save to politicians to make sure that any effective border controls never get passed and to make sure they keep getting plenty of tax loopholes.

Just curious, as a resident of Florida what's your opinion of Ron DeSantis?

IMO he's a good chance to be president in the post-Trump era

 

[Floridog]

Just curious, as a resident of Florida what's your opinion of Ron DeSantis?

IMO he's a good chance to be president in the post-Trump era

Oh God, I surely hope not!
(that should tell you what I think of DeSantis)

 

[Floridog]

What has happened 50 years ago is no longer releavnt. Trump's voter base is not the high income, wealthy, privileged degree educated inner city dwellers. The voter bases switched sides because the Democrats no longer want anything with the great unwashed deplorables.

Fact is there was a massive increase in border apprehensions under Trump. Fact is border crossing blew out under Biden and some of his own party demanded he take executive action to stem the tide.

Biden literally appointed Harris to the border control role. Fact is she was asked mutliple times when she would actually go to the border herself. She refused because it was politically bad optics for her. Her condescending and dismissisive reply is here:

What has happened 50 years ago is no longer releavnt.
I didn't say fifty years ago. I said in the last fifty years which takes us right up to today.

Trump's voter base is not the high income, wealthy, privileged degree educated inner city dwellers.
Neither is Harris'. Both of them do rely on wealthy privileged degree educated big money donors though.
The voter bases switched sides because the Democrats no longer want anything with the great unwashed deplorables.
There was a big switch during the civil rights era, but that is more than 50 years ago so is no longer relevant, but no significant switch recently.

Fact is there was a massive increase in border apprehensions under Trump.
There was an increase under Trump. I wouldn't call it massive. It was cruel and inhumane which got it a lot of publicity and made it seem more massive than it was. More apprehensions doesn't necessarily mean fewer crossings. In fact it was the Republicans who pointed to the huge jump in fentanyl being stopped at the border under Biden's watch and claimed it was because there was a huge jump in the amount of fentanyl coming in. They were wrong of course.

 

[BEaston]

Its a system that means that last year 12,000 Australians died waiting for essential surgery.

source for this? Seems pretty crazy on face value.

 

[Freshwater]

This is long, 25minutes, the first 12 minutes gets to it perfectly. I haven’t posted any YouTube content until I found the one that helps best describe what I am trying to argue for. Freedom of speech as the pinnacle among other ‘western’ values, that some still find a difficult concept. Sam Harris and Konstantin Kisin are modern clear outstanding thinkers of our crazy time. Not of the left or right really, definitely against woke at the far left and fascism of the far right and the authoritarians on both ends.
Sam Harris says “It’s not an accident that -Democracy
-Capitalism
and - Political Freedom
are the engine of our wealth and creativity, all the other alternatives suck. Ideologies that capture things from the top down and make an economy work this way is always a mistake. But that a tidal wave of religious conviction coming to the west, using our values of tolerance and openness and wanting to help and self criticism is using these ideas against us. He goes on to say the confusion with the criticism some prominent women who fled middle eastern draconian regimes have had from modern intellectual feminists is “as upside down and awful as anything in our racist past!” That English girls who are r*ped by grooming gangs in the UK present at the police station in horrible shape get told we can’t prosecute because we will look racist! And conclude that “if liberal won’t police, fascists will!”
Konstantin says that we spent centuries getting to the idea that we were equal before the law and should be judged by our character and that DEI is the opposite of this ideal, and will lead to chaos. And “if you ratchet up chaos people won’t give a shit who brings order”.

 

[wayniac]

Wow, Lefty BBC fact checks:

CLAIM: “Donald Trump intends to cut Social Security and Medicare.”

VERDICT: This is misleading. In this campaign, Trump has said repeatedly he would not do this, although he has suggested he would in the past.

Social Security provides a source of income when you retire or if you cannot work due to a disability.

Medicare is a US government programme which provides healthcare coverage for millions of Americans who are retired or disabled.

“I will not cut 1 cent from Social Security or Medicare,” Trump said at a rally on 5 August.

And in his 20 point policy platform, one of the pledges is: “Fight for and protect Social Security and Medicare with no cuts.”

However, during his time as president Trump proposed several budgets which would have cut elements of Medicare, such as eliminating the programme advising recipients how to sign up for benefits. None of these budget proposals was enacted.

 

[wayniac]

CLAIM: “Inflation is down under 3%.”

VERDICT: That figure is correct but some context is needed here.

Inflation, which is the increase in the price of something over time, is down from a peak of 9.1% under the Biden administration and it is higher than when Mr Trump left office.

 

[wayniac]

How many jobs has the Biden administration created?​

CLAIM: “We have created 16 million new jobs.”
VERDICT: That is roughly correct. 15.8 million jobs have been added under the Biden administration, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.
However, when the Biden government entered the White House in January 2021, the US was recovering from the Covid pandemic, which crippled the economy and during which more than 20 million jobs were lost.

 

[wayniac]

Did Trump drive the US economy into the ground?​

CLAIM: “He froze in the face of the COVID crisis. He drove our economy into the ground.”
VERDICT: The US economy did take a big hit during the pandemic, like most countries, but it also bounced back under Trump.

However following the pandemic, the US economy bounced back under Trump.

He implemented a series of measures to help it recover, including financial assistance for small businesses.

During Trump’s four years in office (Jan 2017- Jan 2021), the average annual growth rate of the US economy was 2.3%.

Under the Biden administration, this figure has been 2.2% - so almost the same.

 

[wayniac]

Did Trump tank the immigration deal?​

CLAIM: "We had a chance to pass the toughest bipartisan border security bill in decades but Donald Trump tanked the deal."
VERDICT: Trump was publicly against the Biden administration's immigration bill, but voting on it was up to Congress.
The immigration bill aimed to tighten asylum standards, increase spending on Border Patrol, and allow for the automatic closure of the southern border to illegal crossings if a certain daily threshold was reached.
It failed to pass a vote in February with the majority of lawmakers in the US Senate opposing it.
Trump did not have a vote as he was not an elected official at the time, but he did call for his Republican allies to oppose it.

 

[wayniac]

Did Trump ban abortions?​

CLAIM: “In more than 20 states, there is a Trump abortion ban, many with no exceptions, even for rape and incest... be sure if he were to win, he would sign a national abortion ban"
VERDICT: Bans were enacted by states after Trump left office but, as president, he appointed three justices to the Supreme Court who voted to overturn Roe v Wade. Trump has said he would not sign a national abortion ban.
Roe v. Wade protected the federal Constitutional right to abortion for nearly 50 years until it was overturned in June 2022.
As a result, 22 states currently ban abortion or restrict the procedure to earlier in pregnancy than was set by Roe v. Wade. In 14 of those states, abortion is banned in almost all circumstances with 10 not even making an exception for rape or incest.
During his campaign, he has declined to back a national abortion ban and said he believes the issue should be left to individual states.

 

[Outback Footy]

Wow, Lefty BBC fact checks:

CLAIM: “Donald Trump intends to cut Social Security and Medicare.”

VERDICT: This is misleading. In this campaign, Trump has said repeatedly he would not do this, although he has suggested he would in the past.

Social Security provides a source of income when you retire or if you cannot work due to a disability.

Medicare is a US government programme which provides healthcare coverage for millions of Americans who are retired or disabled.

“I will not cut 1 cent from Social Security or Medicare,” Trump said at a rally on 5 August.

And in his 20 point policy platform, one of the pledges is: “Fight for and protect Social Security and Medicare with no cuts.”

However, during his time as president Trump proposed several budgets which would have cut elements of Medicare, such as eliminating the programme advising recipients how to sign up for benefits. None of these budget proposals was enacted.

Trump is literally the dictionary definition of judge someone by their actions not their words. He tried, when in power, to cut social security. He will do the same again. Its in his DNA. How do you tell when Trump is lying? Words are coming out of his mouth. His intent is clear. Claim is correct.

 

[Outback Footy]

CLAIM: “Inflation is down under 3%.”

VERDICT: That figure is correct but some context is needed here.

Inflation, which is the increase in the price of something over time, is down from a peak of 9.1% under the Biden administration and it is higher than when Mr Trump left office.

Claim is correct.

 

[Outback Footy]

How many jobs has the Biden administration created?​

CLAIM: “We have created 16 million new jobs.”
VERDICT: That is roughly correct. 15.8 million jobs have been added under the Biden administration, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.
However, when the Biden government entered the White House in January 2021, the US was recovering from the Covid pandemic, which crippled the economy and during which more than 20 million jobs were lost.

Claim is correct

 

[Outback Footy]

Did Trump tank the immigration deal?​

CLAIM: "We had a chance to pass the toughest bipartisan border security bill in decades but Donald Trump tanked the deal."
VERDICT: Trump was publicly against the Biden administration's immigration bill, but voting on it was up to Congress.
The immigration bill aimed to tighten asylum standards, increase spending on Border Patrol, and allow for the automatic closure of the southern border to illegal crossings if a certain daily threshold was reached.
It failed to pass a vote in February with the majority of lawmakers in the US Senate opposing it.
Trump did not have a vote as he was not an elected official at the time, but he did call for his Republican allies to oppose it.

Claim is again correct

 

[King Harold]

Trump is literally the dictionary definition of judge someone by their actions not their words. He tried, when in power, to cut social security. He will do the same again. Its in his DNA. How do you tell when Trump is lying? Words are coming out of his mouth. His intent is clear. Claim is correct.

100% correct ( although I did hear it was 110% - or even more )
The blokes a literal weather vane.

 

[Outback Footy]

Did Trump ban abortions?​

CLAIM: “In more than 20 states, there is a Trump abortion ban, many with no exceptions, even for rape and incest... be sure if he were to win, he would sign a national abortion ban"
VERDICT: Bans were enacted by states after Trump left office but, as president, he appointed three justices to the Supreme Court who voted to overturn Roe v Wade. Trump has said he would not sign a national abortion ban.
Roe v. Wade protected the federal Constitutional right to abortion for nearly 50 years until it was overturned in June 2022.
As a result, 22 states currently ban abortion or restrict the procedure to earlier in pregnancy than was set by Roe v. Wade. In 14 of those states, abortion is banned in almost all circumstances with 10 not even making an exception for rape or incest.
During his campaign, he has declined to back a national abortion ban and said he believes the issue should be left to individual states.

Trump has bragged he brought down Roe. He returned a national right to a determination by the states. By appointing 3 hard core right wing anti-abortion justices (who all lied in their hearings and swore that Roe was settled law). Trump has claimed he stopped abortions. While hes a lying sociopathic narcissist he is responsible for the return of abortion from a protected action nationally, to the situation where 20+ states have now outlawed it. Trump is surrounded by advisers who want a national ban

Claim is likely true.

 

[King Harold]

Did Trump tank the immigration deal?​

CLAIM: "We had a chance to pass the toughest bipartisan border security bill in decades but Donald Trump tanked the deal."
VERDICT: Trump was publicly against the Biden administration's immigration bill, but voting on it was up to Congress.
The immigration bill aimed to tighten asylum standards, increase spending on Border Patrol, and allow for the automatic closure of the southern border to illegal crossings if a certain daily threshold was reached.
It failed to pass a vote in February with the majority of lawmakers in the US Senate opposing it.
Trump did not have a vote as he was not an elected official at the time, but he did call for his Republican allies to oppose it.

just totally dishonest.
He says jump , what do the pathetic sycophants do ?

fmd he even brags about it how he had it killed.

 

[wayniac]

Just pulling you up on the 3 yr cataract wait.
I have 2 mates just had the surgery, wait time was 4 months for one and 6 months the other ( both public )
I assume it may depend on urgency ?
So maybe it could get out to 3 years ?

I've been waiting 6 years for a lump on my arm to be removed. Three scans with a tentative diagnosis, "blah, blah, but could be cancer". Recently I had a CT scan on my prostate and I asked the doctor if he could take a look at the lump. He obliged and said that it had grown 25% in the last three years. I received a letter from Barwon Health saying I was wait-listed and it would be 36 months (that was 18 months ago).

The good news about the prostate was that it's at 110 versus a normal size of 30, however, the PSA level is divided by the prostate mass so mine comes down to a safe level. The doctor was great, gave me 3 options. 1) drugs with side-effects 2) Invasive surgery that could be a hit and miss biopsy 3) Do nothing and monitor symptoms. I chose option 3) and he said good, see you in February.

I can tell you horror stories about the Australian health system. My wife's female GP totally missed the fact that my wife was pregnant, ignored weight gain and missed periods. She woke up in a pool of blood. Ambulance took her off to hospital. Ectopic pregnancy, a life-threatening condition. She was saved by the paramedics who gave her a blood transfusion on the way to the hospital. Lost a friend to medical diagnosis incompetence. Long, sad story but I won't continue.

So please spare us the "Ï have a mate" stories. When I have a problem that needs solving I want expert advice, not feelgood anecdotes.

 

[King Harold]

I've been waiting 6 years for a lump on my arm to be removed. Three scans with a tentative diagnosis, "blah, blah, but could be cancer". Recently I had a CT scan on my prostate and I asked the doctor if he could take a look at the lump. He obliged and said that it had grown 25% in the last three years. I received a letter from Barwon Health saying I was wait-listed and it would be 36 months (that was 18 months ago).

The good news about the prostate was that it's at 110 versus a normal size of 30, however, the PSA level is divided by the prostate mass so mine comes down to a safe level. The doctor was great, gave me 3 options. 1) drugs with side-effects 2) Invasive surgery that could be a hit and miss biopsy 3) Do nothing and monitor symptoms. I chose option 3) and he said good, see you in February.

I can tell you horror stories about the Australian health system. My wife's female GP totally missed the fact that my wife was pregnant, ignored weight gain and missed periods. She woke up in a pool of blood. Ambulance took her off to hospital. Ectopic pregnancy, a life-threatening condition. She was saved by the paramedics who gave her a blood transfusion on the way to the hospital. Lost a friend to medical diagnosis incompetence. Long, sad story but I won't continue.

So please spare us the "Ï have a mate" stories. When I have a problem that needs solving I want expert advice, not feelgood anecdotes.

Good for you mate , but get off your high horse.
I believe what you have told me , but I assume you are calling me I am a liar ?

My story is 100% correct , unless my 2 mates are lying to me .
I admit I don’t know much about the current wait times in the health system and so bow to your “ expertise “

But I don’t give a shit what you believe, just take a Bex and have lie down.

 

[stefcep]

So you got nothing but ??????
I know it’s a pretty tough gig constantly defending this moron.
Have you read his bible yet ?

Does this sound like a Trump idea ? ( I think he denied it )
But we can add it to injecting bleach , or nuking a hurricane, just to name a few and it sounds about right .

Thats another left wing media lie. Trump never said "inject bleach". Here's the video:



Betadine was one such disinfectant. Povidone-iodine is a widely available medication that has potent antiviral effects that can be safely administered to the oropharyngeal mucosa to potentially reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission

Repurposing povidone-iodine to reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection and transmission: a narrative review - PMC

Accumulating data suggest antiviral effects of povidone-iodine against the Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) virus. This narrative review aims to examine the antiviral mechanisms of povidone-iodine, efficacy of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[stefcep]

source for this? Seems pretty crazy on face value.

Elective surgery wait times balloon to record high across Australia, data shows

Nearly one in 10 patients are waiting longer than a year to be admitted, according to Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

www.theguardian.com

 

[stefcep]

Trump has bragged he brought down Roe. He returned a national right to a determination by the states. By appointing 3 hard core right wing anti-abortion justices (who all lied in their hearings and swore that Roe was settled law). Trump has claimed he stopped abortions. While hes a lying sociopathic narcissist he is responsible for the return of abortion from a protected action nationally, to the situation where 20+ states have now outlawed it. Trump is surrounded by advisers who want a national ban

Claim is likely true.

Rubbish. he appointed Judges who interpreted the Constitution. It meant the States have legal authority over abortion. Exactly as it is here in Australia-our High Court would do the exact same thing if it had to.