The Robodebt Royal Commission

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Crankyhawk said:
it could be just paranoia about government operations, but there is a belief out there that these findings do get passed on before public release. If we can accept that there was no leak, then it is reasonable for government to take the time to read and digest the report. Unfortunately it is very difficult to prove that this did not occur to those who believe it has (an example of feelings vs facts assumed vs facts known)
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Whether they had these specific set of recommendations or not, there is nothing new or groundbreaking that I've seen in them regarding the need for cultural and process change at Services Australia.

Treating people with humanity, running the service for the benefit of welfare recipients, having well documented processes in place to minimise harm.

These should be the bare minimum standards but they aren't and the best we've got so far is they will be considered.
 
Crankyhawk said:
it could be just paranoia about government operations, but there is a belief out there that these findings do get passed on before public release. If we can accept that there was no leak, then it is reasonable for government to take the time to read and digest the report. Unfortunately it is very difficult to prove that this did not occur to those who believe it has (an example of feelings vs facts assumed vs facts known)
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I will simply say this in response.

A key comment from the Commissioner in her preface to her report is this:

"But as to how effective any recommended change can be, I want to make two points. First, whether a public service can be developed with sufficient robustness to ensure that something of the like of the Robodebt scheme could not occur again will depend on the will of the government of the day, because culture is set from the top down."

It is an important reflection that gets to the very heart of the Royal Commission findings, especially with regards to the multiple failings of senior public servants in recognising and calling out the clear illegality of the RoboDebt scheme and acting with 'dishonesty and collusion' in its implementation without any care as to the welfare and impact on the public.

Furthermore, it is these cultural failings that led to what the Commissioner kindly referred to as the 'ineffectiveness' of the institutional checks and balances – the Commonwealth Ombudsman’s Office, the Office of Legal Services Coordination, the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal – in presenting any hindrance to the Scheme’s continuance.

The Commissioner makes the point that substantial cultural change within any organisation must start from the top. And in this case it means from the government of the day.

That will take commitment, consideration, reflection but most of all time given the individuals currently occupying senior positions on the Opposition benches. And an understanding that it must be achieved with consultation across party political boundaries if that cultural change in the public services and its processes are to be deep and enduring. It will not be achieved by press releases.

Political grandstanding and point scoring on the very day the Royal Commission Report is released would likely destroy any chance of that happening. And, as Commissioner Holmes makes clear - condemn the failures highlighted in the report to be repeated when it next suits the political whims of a future government.
 
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Festerz said:
FFS. That is just dumb. Not just politically but on justice terms.

Let the report land and gain traction with all of its recommendations and the reasons for them be carefully considered before acting. And any action focussed on trhe longer term to prevent re-occurence. That is what's needed here.

To do anything else - especially taking pre-meditated action - smacks of the very political 'for effect' manoeuvring that led to the Robo Debt Scheme in the first place.
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Anyone remember the Liberals immediately stating we will accept the banking RC in full before ignoring most of it and quietly rejecting all of it a few years later.

It is nice to have some adults in charge.
 
Festerz said:
I will simply say this in response.

A key comment from the Commissioner in her preface to her report is this:

"But as to how effective any recommended change can be, I want to make two points. First, whether a public service can be developed with sufficient robustness to ensure that something of the like of the Robodebt scheme could not occur again will depend on the will of the government of the day, because culture is set from the top down."

It is an important reflection that gets to the very heart of the Royal Commission findings, especially with regards to the multiple failings of senior public servants in recognising and calling out the clear illegality of the RoboDebt scheme and acting with 'dishonesty and collusion' in its implementation without any care as to the welfare and impact on the public.

Furthermore, it is these cultural failings that led to what the Commissioner kindly referred to as the 'ineffectiveness' of the institutional checks and balances – the Commonwealth Ombudsman’s Office, the Office of Legal Services Coordination, the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal – in presenting any hindrance to the Scheme’s continuance.

The Commissioner makes the point that substantial cultural change within any organisation must start from the top. And in this case it means from the government of the day.

That will take commitment, consideration, reflection but most of all time given the individuals currently occupying senior positions on the Opposition benches. And an understanding that it must be achieved with consultation across party political boundaries if that cultural change in the public services and its processes are to be deep and enduring. It will not be achieved by press releases.

Political grandstanding and point scoring on the very day the Royal Commission Report is released would likely destroy any chance of that happening. And, as Commissioner Holmes makes clear - condemn the failures highlighted in the report to be repeated when it next suits the political whims of a future government.
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Except the lnp will only grandstand, corrupt shits that they are
 
Gough said:
A Current Affair was shamelessly running promos bagging Robodebt despite being one of Tudge's preferred media outlets when pushing the program.
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The Australians editorial (note - shows no acknowledgement or reflection on their role in the disaster and deflects blame totally to the bureaucrats rather than the politicians who set up the scheme)

Rotayjay said:
Peter Dutton is now criticising the politicisation of the Commission report.

The supreme irony and the hypocrisy. The politicisation of social security and being nasty to Australia's poorest is what led HIS government, not Labor's, to construct an illegal government program.
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You can 100% see these folk never seem to be bothered at all by hypocrisy, deceit or lies.

One of the things I really can't understand is the way the politicians, who are mostly lawyers, couldn't see that the computerised averaging 'stole' money from many people and was thus illegal.
 
QuietB said:
Anyone remember the Liberals immediately stating we will accept the banking RC in full before ignoring most of it and quietly rejecting all of it a few years later.

It is nice to have some adults in charge.
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They used the words in principle a lot which everyone pointed to at the time as being weasel words.

This idea that the coalition aren't adults is a dumb one, they are and they know what they are doing.

Labor are closer to the coalition than they are the average voter.

They're part of the same system with largely the same corporate donors.

They both have a hard right religious fundy element with too much power in the party.

They vote together to block almost anything not proposed by one of them.

They vote together to make sure committees are chaired and mostly made up of members from their two groups.

Currently the biggest difference between Albo and Morrison is that Morrison didn't bother to pretend he cared.

Albo is very sad when he has to do the exact same thing as the coalition, Morrison was gleeful to do it.

From what I've seen most of the current recommendations have been provided to Labor already as part of previous hearings and investigations in the past year.

They've been given to the coalition many times over the past 10 years as well via many committees that Labor have been on.

Nobody should think they don't know what should be done.

The question is what is their appetite for reform.
 
Gralin said:
The question is what is their appetite for reform.
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And precisely what is Australia’s appetite for reform?

Because it has been proven time after time it does not take much effort for Murdoch and Co to spook the horses in this country.

All of this Robodebt stuff has been known for years - yet no one really cares. In fact Morrison’s policies to punch down were and still are politically popular.

There is no appetite for change in Australia. Every incremental change Labor try to implement is against the tide. The Voice is a perfect example - the entire conservative machine is working against it notwithstanding all of the work was done on their watch.

At some point we are all just going to have to accept that Australia is a political, cultural and intellectual wasteland.

The Lucky Country was first published in 1964 and it is more relevant today than it was then.
 
QuietB said:
And precisely what is Australia’s appetite for reform?

Because it has been proven time after time it does not take much effort for Murdoch and Co to spook the horses in this country.

All of this Robodebt stuff has been known for years - yet no one really cares. In fact Morrison’s policies to punch down were and still are politically popular.

There is no appetite for change in Australia. Every incremental change Labor try to implement is against the tide. The Voice is a perfect example - the entire conservative machine is working against it notwithstanding all of the work was done on their watch.

At some point we are all just going to have to accept that Australia is a political, cultural and intellectual wasteland.

The Lucky Country was first published in 1964 and it is more relevant today than it was then.
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I was talking about Labor's appetite for reform not "Australia's"
 

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QuietB said:
And precisely what is Australia’s appetite for reform?

Because it has been proven time after time it does not take much effort for Murdoch and Co to spook the horses in this country.
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Exactly.

Bill Shorten went to the 2019 Federal election with the most comprehensive taxation and policy reform strategy in recent memory. And despite being relatively modest in terms of the extent of reforms proposed it was honest, courageous and bold because it was announced 'pre-election' and unlike, policies of the Greens and independents, would have committed his party to implementing it if elected.

That appetite for reform and the media scare campaign that it fostered played a major role in the unexpected re-election of the Morrison Government.

Further discussion of this point is off topic for this thread. But fair to say that whining from the sidelines about 'lack of appetite' for reform without referencing electoral accountability and the realities of our partisan media reporting is either disingenuous, naive or just plain dishonest depending on who is doing the whining.
 
I think one of the causes of Robodebt was the Americanisation of Australia, cheered on by the former Australian -now American - Rupert Murdoch, and the Coalition. Having a frank and fearless public service with real expertise is a grand tradition of our Westminster system. Having a cowardly, politicised, emasculated public service - that doesn't have the expertise or balls to stand up to politicians - is American-style.

And look at that, we got an American-style dystopian outcome. Vulnerable people taking their own lives because a tin-eared government body said they owed giant debts and were guilty until proven innocent.

The Coalition doesn't believe in a public service to serve the public. It doesn't want the public service to be adequately staffed or have good people working for it. The Coalition doesn't believe in public good - it wants as many public services privatised as possible. They even privatised Centrelink call centres to foreign companies operating in Australia. The Coalition is all about enriching the already-rich, and convincing the rest that 'the bludgers' are the enemy, as a distraction from things like Stage Three tax cuts and sports rorts.
 
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QuietB said:
But Labor cannot implement reform unless Australian's are willing to accept it. And history says we are not.
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Lol Australian accept pretty much anything politicians throw at us.

Nevermind polling shows the majority of people want better from labor when it comes to supporting people on welfare and dealing with the housing crisis.
 
Festerz said:
FMD - is there any taxpayer funded scam these crims didn't have their fingers in?

www.theage.com.au

PwC repaying almost $1 million in robo-debt consulting fees

The Department of Human Services paid PwC $853,859 for work that ended in a PowerPoint presentation. The firm will pay that back.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
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'...
But a report had been created, totalling 100 pages.
...
Stubbins said the firm found the contents of the report “deeply distressing”.
“For PwC’s part, we acknowledge the findings of the commission in relation to PwC’s work for the DHS in relation to robo-debt,” she said.
“A PwC partner who gave oral evidence to the Royal Commission was asked to exit the partnership and is no longer with the firm.”'

So did the Government eventually get to see the whole 100 pages PwC report via the Royal Commission.

And if so, it's a bit rough that they eventually got paid nothing for the nearly finalised report, even if it was a few years late (sarcasm).

I wonder what PwC's Shane West is doing now?
Assuming that he is no longer with PwC, his LinkedIn still has him working for PwC as a partner and a Federal Government Consulting Lead.

Maybe he is now working for Scyne Advisory that PwC just sold to the the new entity (via Private Equity Funds Manager - Allegro Funds) onto which PwC is offloading its government work, along with an estimated 130 partners and 1750 other staff, for the bargain-basement price of $1??

www.themandarin.com.au

First robodebt royal commission scalp confirmed at PwC

Acting PwC Australia boss confirms a partner who worked with the Department of Human Services had parted ways with the firm.
www.themandarin.com.au www.themandarin.com.au
'The current acting chief executive of PwC Australia Kristin Stubbins confirmed on Friday that the partner who worked on the then Department of Human Services dissected by the royal commission had parted ways with the firm, just hours after the report was released at 11 am on Friday.'

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

PwC’s ‘phoenix operation’ draws criticism

This week’s spinoff of PwC’s government services to private equity buyers leaves doubts about the effectiveness of the consultancy’s purge, and how the industry might be reshaped.
www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au
'...
Was that enough to satisfy Senator Deborah O’Neill?

Even before I had finished asking the question, she shot back: “No.”

Next question: Did she have any confidence that some of those bad apples would not bob up again in Scyne Advisory – the new entity onto which PwC is offloading its government work, along with an estimated 130 partners and 1750 other staff, for the bargain-basement price of $1?

Same answer: No.

The Greens senator Barbara Pocock has an equally firm view. Asked if she is confident that all those culpable in the PwC scandal have been identified and removed, Pocock says “absolutely not”. And for that reason, she says, “we just don’t know” if any are among the people transitioning from PwC to Scyne.
...'



 
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