The Robodebt Royal Commission

[Crankyhawk]

An interesting finding of the report is for governments to treat welfare recipients as in need rather than being leaners. It's bizarre that even needs to be stated

Hopefully the recent experience of the pandemic lockdowns and people being on income support has changed that view in the general public (after generations of media driven dole bludger narrative- various current affairs shows using “hidden cameras “ to demonstrate a disability pensioner can walk, or the Paxtons episode of ACA etc

 

[Gough]

Hopefully the recent experience of the pandemic lockdowns and people being on income support has changed that view in the general public (after generations of media driven dole bludger narrative- various current affairs shows using “hidden cameras “ to demonstrate a disability pensioner can walk, or the Paxtons episode of ACA etc

A Current Affair was shamelessly running promos bagging Robodebt despite being one of Tudge's preferred media outlets when pushing the program.

 

[Crankyhawk]

FFS. That is just dumb. Not just politically but on justice terms.

Let the report land and gain traction with all of its recommendations and the reasons for them be carefully considered before acting. And any action focussed on trhe longer term to prevent re-occurence. That is what's needed here.

To do anything else - especially taking pre-meditated action - smacks of the very political 'for effect' manoeuvring that led to the Robo Debt Scheme in the first place.

Although I think a nuanced view of @Gralin’s point was that the government could commit to implementing the report as they probably had opportunity to already see the recommendations (due to inherent cynicism about how these reports get leaked pre release to government)

 

[Crankyhawk]

A Current Affair was shamelessly running promos bagging Robodebt despite being one of Tudge's preferred media outlets when pushing the program.

Yes that’s because it generated eyeballs, same as the prior welfare cheat stories did. I’m hoping the lived experience of being on income support (job keeper) has changed the view of the public so that they reject future “welfare cheat” clickbait

 

[Saint]

Although I think a nuanced view of @Gralin’s point was that the government could commit to implementing the report as they probably had opportunity to already see the recommendations (due to inherent cynicism about how these reports get leaked pre release to government)

For govt inquirys, yes, not for RCs.

 

[Rotayjay]

Dutton: "It's a witchhunt"

Yeah? So? It actually found witches which makes it far more effective than Robodebt which wasn't able to find real debts.

What a **** head, tone-deaf comment by Dutton. Your colleagues are ogres, and so are you.

 

[Rotayjay]

ScoMo has rejected the findings

That's all right - Australia has rejected his leadership and his party.

 

[Gough]

What a * head, tone-deaf comment by Dutton. Your colleagues are ogres, and so are you.

The sanctity of marriage is to be protected at all costs but the findings of something like a Royal Commission can just be dismissed. Conservatives tend to pick and choose which institutions are to be respected these days.

 

[Rotayjay]

Hopefully the recent experience of the pandemic lockdowns and people being on income support has changed that view in the general public (after generations of media driven dole bludger narrative- various current affairs shows using “hidden cameras “ to demonstrate a disability pensioner can walk, or the Paxtons episode of ACA etc

Unfortunately I think the current near-record-low unemployment will do something to bury that memory. People have short memories. Low unemployment is a good thing, but look at the rhetoric coming out now about inflation - rhetoric about needing to make more people unemployed to combat inflation and get a better functioning labour market. How much has Centrelink really changed?

 

[Rotayjay]

The fact that a Royal Commission was completed into this scheme restores my faith in humanity. Slightly.

 

[Festerz]

Secretary of the Department of Human Services from 2011 to 2017 and then Secretary for the Department of Social Services until 2021, Kathryn Campbell.

The Bride of Morrison's RoboDebt monster:

Royal Commission findings on Kathryn Campbell:

“Ms Campbell had been responsible for a department that had established, implemented and maintained an unlawful program,”

“When exposed to information that brought to light the illegality of income averaging, she did nothing of substance.

“When presented with opportunities to obtain advice on the lawfulness of that practice, she failed to act.”

While appearing before the royal commission in March, Campbell conceded she had submitted a potentially misleading document to the expenditure review committee of cabinet in March 2015 when the scheme was being devised.

The document falsely said there would be “no change” to how debts would be assessed under the robo-debt scheme and removed suggestions that legislative change was required to implement the proposal.

Campbell is currently working as an adviser on the AUKUS pact in the Department of Defence, a role for which she is being paid an annual salary of $889,853.

No doubt formal arrangements for her dismissal from that role are currently underway.

 

[Gough]

All from the architects of AUKUS and the Stage 3 tax cuts.

 

[Over The Post]

Hopefully the recent experience of the pandemic lockdowns and people being on income support has changed that view in the general public (after generations of media driven dole bludger narrative- various current affairs shows using “hidden cameras “ to demonstrate a disability pensioner can walk, or the Paxtons episode of ACA etc

I disagree. Jobkeeper was designed (apart from funnelling billions to companies that didn't need it) to keep voters away from the horror of centrelink, and it did. The jobseeker corona supplement was designed, not to help existing unemployed, but to insulate the newly out-of-work voters from the terror and misery of having to live 50% below the poverty line. They were also given an express pass to go straight onto the dole and not jump through the many hurdles ordinary people had to go through before covid. Hence the news reports from mid-'20 with people saying it was quite possible to live on the dole and it was nowhere near as bad as the whinging bludgers had previously made out.

Not a lot has changed.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I disagree. Jobkeeper was designed (apart from funnelling billions to companies that didn't need it) to keep voters away from the horror of centrelink, and it did. The jobseeker corona supplement was designed, not to help existing unemployed, but to insulate the newly out-of-work voters from the terror and misery of having to live 50% below the poverty line. They were also given an express pass to go straight onto the dole and not jump through the many hurdles ordinary people had to go through before covid. Hence the news reports from mid-'20 with people saying it was quite possible to live on the dole and it was nowhere near as bad as the whinging bludgers had previously made out.

Not a lot has changed.

Not saying that your view has no merit, more just hoping that by being on jobkeeper that the stigma and assumed behaviours attributed to those on jobseeker would be less in the general public.

 

[GreyWind]

I disagree. Jobkeeper was designed (apart from funnelling billions to companies that didn't need it) to keep voters away from the horror of centrelink, and it did. The jobseeker corona supplement was designed, not to help existing unemployed, but to insulate the newly out-of-work voters from the terror and misery of having to live 50% below the poverty line. They were also given an express pass to go straight onto the dole and not jump through the many hurdles ordinary people had to go through before covid. Hence the news reports from mid-'20 with people saying it was quite possible to live on the dole and it was nowhere near as bad as the whinging bludgers had previously made out.

Not a lot has changed.

Don't forget there will be a large number of people who believe they deserved Jobkeeper compared to people currently on Centrelink who are just welfare cheats.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Criminal proceedings against Morrison and Tudge would be my guess.

Morrison is the type of person who would be crowing he wasn't in the shit

 

[Gralin]

Although I think a nuanced view of @Gralin’s point was that the government could commit to implementing the report as they probably had opportunity to already see the recommendations (due to inherent cynicism about how these reports get leaked pre release to government)

Mainly my point is royal commissions rarely achieve real change.

Albo being so non committal on change beyond the end of robodebt doesn't bode well.

The media and focus will move on, we'll get a few token announcements at best and it will be business as usual.

We see it at state and federal level whwre they at best implement some watered down version of recommendations (like the banking Royal commission - which the coalition then used the pandemic to roll back)

Or they do nothing but talk about it occasionally - like Aboriginal deaths in custody.

The aged care one being the most recent example of one where they make all the right noises, do a few things but won't actually make the changes or spend the money needed to actually implement.

I suspect this will be similar, all the blame will go to a couple of people at services Australia, members of the former government and robodebt.

They'll wag their fingers, tinker at the edges and continue killing people with debt collecting and treating welfare recipients like scum.

 

[Festerz]

The main culprits will as always go unpunished...

 

[Crankyhawk]

Mainly my point is royal commissions rarely achieve real change.

Albo being so non committal on change beyond the end of robodebt doesn't bode well.

The media and focus will move on, we'll get a few token announcements at best and it will be business as usual.

We see it at state and federal level whwre they at best implement some watered down version of recommendations (like the banking Royal commission - which the coalition then used the pandemic to roll back)

Or they do nothing but talk about it occasionally - like Aboriginal deaths in custody.

The aged care one being the most recent example of one where they make all the right noises, do a few things but won't actually make the changes or spend the money needed to actually implement.

I suspect this will be similar, all the blame will go to a couple of people at services Australia, members of the former government and robodebt.

They'll wag their fingers, tinker at the edges and continue killing people with debt collecting and treating welfare recipients like scum.

am currently working on trying to implement the Victorian RC mental health one

• government did pass an updated MHA (2022) - can be found via internet search
• however while the date for implementation is 1/9/2023 lets just say we are a butt tonne away from being able to do so
• also it is very difficult to parse out some of the nuances eg the RC wants to move towards elimination of restrictive practice (chemical/ mechanical/ physical restraint and seclusion) but then people also scream that the health system is failing the patient if we let them leave and they hurt themselves/ others.
• vic DHHS is currently consulting for feedback on its strategy (https://www.safercare.vic.gov.au/im...ards-the-elimination-of-restrictive-practices) there is also one where you can read it and provide the feedback but am just struggling to find it atm

 

[Rotayjay]

All from the architects of AUKUS and the Stage 3 tax cuts.

Those campaigners legislated to 'spend' many, many multiples of the 'savings' of the Robodebt scheme on the Stage Three tax cuts. But of course they will go to 'worthy lifters', an income bracket that conveniently captures politicians.

 

[Festerz]

Although I think a nuanced view of @Gralin’s point was that the government could commit to implementing the report as they probably had opportunity to already see the recommendations (due to inherent cynicism about how these reports get leaked pre release to government)

That may be a 'nuanced view' but it is simply wrong in fact.

For the record, the Royal Commission report was presented and handed to the Governor General yesterday.

The much referred to 'sealed section' not included in the published report was presented in that form so as as 'not to prejudice the conduct of any future civil action or criminal prosecution'.

It includes referrals to the Australian Public Service Commission, the National Anti-Corruption Commissioner, the Australian Federal Police, and a range of professional and statutory bodies including the President of the Law Society of the ACT.

Those whining about the Albanese Government not taking swift public action after less than 24 hours of the Royal Commission Report being handed down clearly know nothing of the independence of Royal Commission, its processes or the rules of judicial process and procedural fairness in relation to how its findings are dealt with.

They are pushing for an instant public political response without understanding the irony of the fact that publicity driven knee-jerk politics is what led to the creation of the RoboDebt scheme in the first place.

Now is the time for proper and due process to take place. Not yet more politically driven partisan hyperbole - leave that for us in the social media platforms.

 

[Rotayjay]

I disagree. Jobkeeper was designed (apart from funnelling billions to companies that didn't need it) to keep voters away from the horror of centrelink, and it did. The jobseeker corona supplement was designed, not to help existing unemployed, but to insulate the newly out-of-work voters from the terror and misery of having to live 50% below the poverty line. They were also given an express pass to go straight onto the dole and not jump through the many hurdles ordinary people had to go through before covid. Hence the news reports from mid-'20 with people saying it was quite possible to live on the dole and it was nowhere near as bad as the whinging bludgers had previously made out.

Not a lot has changed.

I strongly agree with your post. That whole program (increased Jobseeker and Jobkeeper, no requirement to look for work, no bank statements required) were basically airbags for all those people who normally vote Liberal, protecting them from the car crash of 'real' Centrelink. There is no substitute for lived experience. No quantity of stories, friends or family members going through something conveys the same understanding as going through it yourself. Politics is dominated by people from comfortable middle- and upper-class families, politicians who know jack shit about needing Centrelink.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That may be a 'nuanced view' but it is simply wrong in fact.

For the record, the Royal Commission report was presented and handed to the Governor General yesterday.

The much referred to 'sealed section' not included in the published report was presented in that form so as as 'not to prejudice the conduct of any future civil action or criminal prosecution'.

It includes referrals to the Australian Public Service Commission, the National Anti-Corruption Commissioner, the Australian Federal Police, and a range of professional and statutory bodies including the President of the Law Society of the ACT.

Those whining about the Albanese Government not taking swift public action after less than 24 hours of the Royal Commission Report being handed down clearly know nothing of the independence of Royal Commission, its processes or the rules of judicial process and procedural fairness in relation to how its findings are dealt with.

They are pushing for an instant public political response without understanding the irony of the fact that publicity driven knee-jerk politics is what led to the creation of the RoboDebt scheme in the first place.

Now is the time for proper and due process to take place. Not yet more hyperbole.

it could be just paranoia about government operations, but there is a belief out there that these findings do get passed on before public release. If we can accept that there was no leak, then it is reasonable for government to take the time to read and digest the report. Unfortunately it is very difficult to prove that this did not occur to those who believe it has (an example of feelings vs facts assumed vs facts known)

 

[DickieKnee]

Just happened to be in Europe

This guy is travelling the world while still collecting his MP salary yet was hell bent on penalising the most needy in our society. Talk about an entitled campaigner.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I strongly agree with your post. That whole program (increased Jobseeker and Jobkeeper, no requirement to look for work, no bank statements required) were basically airbags for all those people who normally vote Liberal, protecting them from the car crash of 'real' Centrelink. There is no substitute for lived experience. No quantity of stories, friends or family members going through something conveys the same understanding as going through it yourself. Politics is dominated by people from comfortable middle- and upper-class families, politicians who know jack s**t about needing Centrelink.

i suppose I have just become more aware of it during and post pandemic - and thats without myself going onto jobkeeper at any point. It does seem that more and more of my patients are telling me about financial issues (which working at the most povvo metropolitan hospital in Melbourne I really have no resources to assist) - it seems like theres less fire towrads "dole bludgers" compared to what there used to be.

I do not disagree with the points you have made though.