The Ruck Debate is Over

[40yearBLUE]

Jobs not done yet, but Warnock truly showed last night as to why we chased him so hard.
We've all seen snippets of his ability rucking and Kreuzer-like extraction work in close, but last nights 4 quarter effort may well be the start of the future, for him (and us)
Not taking anything away from Hadley, and I know I've said it a hundred times over, but his true value will come into play once Mclean gets himself right.
I still see Mclean as the long term, missing piece of the puzzle for our centre combination.

Ah the Bobby Fischer and Bruno Grollo love child of the board, a true visionary always thinking a few moves ahead of the pack and able to see the tower not the hole in the ground.

When the dust settles and the results of the foundation building emerge as a skyscraper we know you knew from when it was just a hole in the ground or the first moves in a long chess battle, what was being built.

Too much?

 

[Azul]

Let's give Hampson a go as a forward. If he can hold 5 marks its only a matter of time before he slots them through the sticks.

Carlton seemed to fair worse last night each time Warnock went off for a rest. Jacobs' ruckwork is a long way ahead of Hampson's. The MC ought to consider Warnock and Jacobs in tandem during the finals.

 

[parrot]

It's over now.

#1 ruck: Warnock
#2 ruck/forward: Hampson
KP ruck/winger/CHF/CHB/HBF/HFF/midfielder: Kruezer

Can fit all 3 in. That's a deadly trio.

 

[rp84]

Jobs not done yet, but Warnock truly showed last night as to why we chased him so hard.
We've all seen snippets of his ability rucking and Kreuzer-like extraction work in close, but last nights 4 quarter effort may well be the start of the future, for him (and us)
Not taking anything away from Hadley, and I know I've said it a hundred times over, but his true value will come into play once Mclean gets himself right.
I still see Mclean as the long term, missing piece of the puzzle for our centre combination.

Totally agree with this. Will be emphasized next year when they cap rotations, and his lack of leg speed is less of a problem. Mclean WILL be a very good player for us. As Ratts said earlier this week, he had better numbers than Ball before getting hurt.

 

[BlueSnake]

It's over now.

#1 ruck: Warnock
#2 ruck/forward: Hampson
KP ruck/winger/CHF/CHB/HBF/HFF/midfielder: Kreuzer

Can fit all 3 in. That's a deadly trio.

I like it

 

[Dramoth]

Hey Dennis, where's this weeks bump?

Sauce is good, and will get better and the only real ruck debate we have right now is as to whether we will hang onto all four come seasons end.

+1

Having Matty go down with a knee should make people realise how lucky we are to have 4 quality ruckmen on our list and how good it is for the team to be able to rotate them as required.

I think that we will be able to hang on to them at the end of the year. I would even go so far as to suggest that the beancounters are already working on new contract extensions for all 4 of them.

 

[blue_chick]

Let's give Hampson a go as a forward. If he can hold 5 marks its only a matter of time before he slots them through the sticks.

Carlton seemed to fair worse last night each time Warnock went off for a rest. Jacobs' ruckwork is a long way ahead of Hampson's. The MC ought to consider Warnock and Jacobs in tandem during the finals.

Finally some one that knows what they are talking about like me.

I thought the same thing when Robbie was off the ground Hill and Ryder came back into the game and started takeing controll again. I would love a forward like Essondon has that No 34, not much of him and can take heaps of contested marks.

 

[HBF]

Ratten and Swann have basically said we will be trading one of them at years end.

Warnock is going to be a very fine ruckman

Jacobs + ????? to Port for Trengove appears to be pretty logical at the moment. Just depends on what we need to add to that trade to get it over the line. If you line up all 4 ruckmen at their best, unfortunately for Jacobs, he does trail the other three.

 

[Dennis]

Why does it have to be Trengove?

Surely other teams are crying for a ruckman where we could get another young KPP in return?

 

[michael69]

Totally agree with this. Will be emphasized next year when they cap rotations, and his lack of leg speed is less of a problem. Mclean WILL be a very good player for us. As Ratts said earlier this week, he had better numbers than Ball before getting hurt.

Actually McLean was pulling games like Lenny Hayes. When he is fit he should come straight into the side for Hadley.

 

[Warsaw]

Jacobs + ????? to Port for Trengove appears to be pretty logical at the moment. Just depends on what we need to add to that trade to get it over the line. If you line up all 4 ruckmen at their best, unfortunately for Jacobs, he does trail the other three.

Is this trade more than just BigFooty talk. Wouldn't mind seeing the trade happen, as long as the ?? is a 2nd/3rd round pick.

 

[Dennis]

*bump*

Jacobs 1st ruck with Kruezer and Warnock playing FF from the square (one on the field and one on the bench)

Hampson to port Adelaide for Troy Chaplin

 

[Claypigeon]

Still not over. ..

Have been having some thoughts regarding our structures. .. Lots of debate on how to fit certain players in and our ruckman are still causing debate through lack of form (Warnock/Hampson) or fitness (Kreuzer). ..

All of our potential, first 22, KPPs are quite mobile:

Waite, Henderson, Jamison, Bower, Kreuzer, Hampson and O'hailpin

Warnock at the moment doesn't have the physicality, the fitness or the agility but is our potential No.1 ruck going forward. ..

I would stick to Hammer at the moment but if he doesn't come good and Warnock continues to struggle (especially with running out games) then when Kreuzer is fit and rucking full time again could we just go with Irish and Kreuzer in the ruck?

A team like the following seems very mobile and would trouble our opposition. .. Not to mention skillful. ..

FB: Russell, Jamison, Duigan
HB: Yarran, Bower, Laidler
Ce: Scotland, Gibbs, Simpson
HF: Houlihan, Henderson, Garlett
FF: Walker, Waite, Betts
Ru: Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy
Be: Curnow, O'hAilpin, Robinson
Sub: Ellard

Irish is mobile and a good set shot. .. He also brings our smalls into the game, like Hendo. .. however if Hampson starts clunking marks and continues the work around the ground we could sub Irish out for Hampson and have Kreuzer as the 2nd ruck. ..

 

[SurreyBlue]

Jacobs has been doing very well at Adelaide and probably one of the very few positives for 2011. No matter how good McCarthy end's up, we didn't get enough from this mob for strawbs and should never have caved in!

 

[Jeremias]

Jacobs has been doing very well at Adelaide and probably one of the very few positives for 2011. No matter how good McCarthy end's up, we didn't get enough from this mob for strawbs and should never have caved in!

Jacobs hasn't been that good thus far.

He'll be a very good player for many years, but I'd say his form has been patchy. He's played well at times, but he's been ordinary at times as well.

It was tough to lose him for 2 average draft picks as he was a CFC favourite already. But when you consider we managed to draft McCarthy and McInnes with those picks, there's every chance we'll be winners in the long term.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Jeremias you cannot include McInnes in the trade. These upgrades are just bragging rights at most.

 

[Jeremias]

Jeremias you cannot include McInnes in the trade. These upgrades are just bragging rights at most.

What?

Jacobs was traded for a 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick.

Those picks were initially picks 33 and 67, with 33 adjusted to become 34 after trade week was completed.

Pick 34 - Pat McCarthy
Pick 67 - Andrew McInnes

The trade was, at the end of the day, Sam Jacobs for McCarthy and McInnes.

 

[Blue and Silver]

This is going to sound harsh, and it quite possibly is, but I believe that the question over our best ruck pairing will shortly be rendered moot. Warnock/Kreuzer is the best combination, given that 206 is at worst a good ruckman and at best possibly a top 3-4 ruckman over the coming years (assuming Cox/Sandilands/Brogan retire and Smith/Natanui develop as expected). Kreuzer is even better but will play the more flexible forward/ruck role because quite frankly he will be more damaging in it.

For cover over the years we have the pinch-hitting KPP/Ruck depth of Setanta, Casboult (who played as ruck in his junior years), Henderson and McCarthy. So unless we have an apocalyptic injury run in our talls divison, we probably don't need 3 1st ruck options.

So now we come to Hampson. He is talented, certainly athletically, but to be blunt his value to Carlton grows smaller and smaller as Kreuzer nears his return, Warnock resumes and O'halpin gathers form. For me Hampson should be trade bait. I can think of 4 Victorian clubs where he'd be welcome at the moment (Richmond, Collingwood, St. Kilda, Geelong) and there would be suitors interstate as well (GWS, Port, Bris if Clark leaves). His worth would range approximately between a mid 20's pick and a mid 30's pick (higher upside than Sauce, but less proven performence).

I would take a late first rounder or early second rounder for Hampson, who knows we may even pick up a quality young ruck with that pick, I hear this year's class has quite a few available.

 

[Claypigeon]

This is going to sound harsh, and it quite possibly is, but I believe that the question over our best ruck pairing will shortly be rendered moot. Warnock/Kreuzer is the best combination, given that 206 is at worst a good ruckman and at best possibly a top 3-4 ruckman over the coming years (assuming Cox/Sandilands/Brogan retire and Smith/Natanui develop as expected). Kreuzer is even better but will play the more flexible forward/ruck role because quite frankly he will be more damaging in it.

For cover over the years we have the pinch-hitting KPP/Ruck depth of Setanta, Casboult (who played as ruck in his junior years), Henderson and McCarthy. So unless we have an apocalyptic injury run in our talls divison, we probably don't need 3 1st ruck options.

So now we come to Hampson. He is talented, certainly athletically, but to be blunt his value to Carlton grows smaller and smaller as Kreuzer nears his return, Warnock resumes and O'halpin gathers form. For me Hampson should be trade bait. I can think of 4 Victorian clubs where he'd be welcome at the moment (Richmond, Collingwood, St. Kilda, Geelong) and there would be suitors interstate as well (GWS, Port, Bris if Clark leaves). His worth would range approximately between a mid 20's pick and a mid 30's pick (higher upside than Sauce, but less proven performence).

I would take a late first rounder or early second rounder for Hampson, who knows we may even pick up a quality young ruck with that pick, I hear this year's class has quite a few available.

I don't think that is harsh at all. .. It's the reason why the debate will go on for a while. .. We have several options on what to do with our rucks. ..

I was going to start a new thread but remembered this one and thought I'd resurrect it. ..

I think, like most, that Warnock and Kreuzer are our future ruck pairing however I think Warnock is still developing and there is room to think outside the square. .. We have a set of quite athletic KPP talls with decent skill (who are still developing) and they could really gel as a mobile quick running but hard hitting unit. ..

The side I put together concentrated on mobility and versatility without sacrificing our skill and new found hardness. ..

I welcome the debate

 

[Blue and Silver]

I was afraid that stating we should trade Hampson would result in serious dispute

 

[thylacine60]

Fear not, our dispute resolution department is open 24 hours.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Am I supposed to fear them, or laugh at them?

EDIT: Note, I find exceptionally serious looking people hilarious.