The Ruck Debate is Over

[dumb]

there's a worrying mentality that we need to get games into all of them or as many as possible at once, to satisfy their possible wandering urges. but would you upset team balance and lose games just to keep all 4 on the list...

kruezer is suggested as a possible forward but his marking and goal-kicking don't really inspire me. in time maybe, sure. hampson looks more like a natural forward, but he's not out there playing right now.

i'd be upset with hampson if he left. there is a lot of hype around him but clearly he's still learning the craft, and he may well be over-valuing himself if he decided to go get a game somewhere else. sure he would get a game, but he'd still be developing as with us, rather than at his peak.
jacobs leaving... he's been knocking around on the list for some time. would not be surprised if he asked to leave, and not offended.
we leave warnock in the twos... i reckon he would ask to leave. he's already done it once.

 

[Claypigeon]

i'd be upset with hampson if he left. there is a lot of hype around him but clearly he's still learning the craft, and he may well be over-valuing himself if he decided to go get a game somewhere else. sure he would get a game, but he'd still be developing as with us, rather than at his peak.
jacobs leaving... he's been knocking around on the list for some time. would not be surprised if he asked to leave, and not offended.
we leave warnock in the twos... i reckon he would ask to leave. he's already done it once.

Hampson has been on our list longer than Jacob, only a year longer tho. .. I didn't think we were talking about giving them game time. .. They'd have to earn a game, like Jacob's has. .. Having said that I couldn't see any of them wanting to jump ship, even if Hammer and Warnock didn't get another senior game this year (doubtful). .. Like you said they are all still developing and Hammer has to get his body right. ..

 

[Cynic]

kruezer is suggested as a possible forward but his marking and goal-kicking don't really inspire me. in time maybe, sure. hampson looks more like a natural forward, but he's not out there playing right now.

While I don't watch you blokes as much as a supporter would from what I've seen of Kreuzer he'd be an excellent forward, the only issue is that he's an excellent ruck as well.

Definitely got greats hands from what I've seen

 

[Weiterbot23]

The better Jacobs plays the less we will have to give port to get boak

 

[Dennis]

It's not the Bay where you can elevate your opinion above others. If I didn't know better, I would think you are baiting. Surely not ...

you do know better...so you will respect the fact that when i post on the carlton board, all trolling is left behind

 

[blues4flag]

Hampson has been on our list longer than Jacob, only a year longer tho.

Both were recruited after the 06 season.

 

[Claypigeon]

Both were recruited after the 06 season.

What do you know. .. Didn't realise that we kept him on the rookie list so long. ..

 

[blueblood25]

I'm getting a little tired of some people here hoping that we can just develop our surplus ruckmen into forwards. Do we really wanna turn into North The thought of Hampson in the forward line bothers me an awful lot, if guys like Kreuzer can't even mark it as a forward should then what hope does he have? I saw more balls rebound off him last year than I've ever seen him mark. We should focus on developing our forwards into great forwards while we still have them.


*Adding to that - and i know this goes against my point - but Jacobs is magnificent in the forward line. Superb marking skills and as long as he can palm it off to a forward he serves his purpose while resting in the fwd line.

 

[Blue and Silver]

I'm getting a little tired of some people here hoping that we can just develop our surplus ruckmen into forwards. Do we really wanna turn into North The thought of Hampson in the forward line bothers me an awful lot, if guys like Kreuzer can't even mark it as a forward should then what hope does he have? I saw more balls rebound off him last year than I've ever seen him mark. We should focus on developing our forwards into great forwards while we still have them.


*Adding to that - and i know this goes against my point - but Jacobs is magnificent in the forward line. Superb marking skills and as long as he can palm it off to a forward he serves his purpose while resting in the fwd line.

Jacobs did NOT play basketball and CAN mark. Anyone else see a correlation?

 

[BlueSnake]

Doesn't change your point, but Hammer played soccer not basketball I'm pretty sure.

 

[Salaryman]

Hampson soccer, not basketball.

 

[Claypigeon]

*Adding to that - and i know this goes against my point - but Jacobs is magnificent in the forward line. Superb marking skills and as long as he can palm it off to a forward he serves his purpose while resting in the fwd line.

I like him resting in the forward line occasionally too although I get the impression he doesn't need to pass it off, he seems to have a penetrating kick and could probably slot a goal. ..

 

[Gouldy]

Really fantastic that we have multiple dimensions in the ruck, all competing for a place.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

you do know better...so you will respect the fact that when i post on the carlton board, all trolling is left behind

Well, if somebody says that repeating something designed to end all debate is unnecessary and dismissive and you respond by repeating it again, it gets cloudy for me.

By your logic, Hampson and Warnock might as well find another club because unless we have injuries they will never get a game.

Right at this moment, Kreuzer and Jacobs are our rucks. Hampson is returning from injury and once he is up and going, he gets a chance to show something different and try to take Jacobs' spot. If Warnock starts holding his marks around the ground, maybe he gets a chance to take the spot.

It is in Carlton's best interests and the interests of the four ruckmen themselves, that this debate is never over.

 

[Silvagnis]

Jacobs is good against the dinosaurs, but struggled against the athletic Naitanui.

Sauce is slow.

I'd have Hampson and Warnock ahead of Jacobs.

Hammer is better around the ground and a more dangerous option up forward.

Kreuzer and Hampson/Warnock running around at their peak would create more headaches for the opposition than Kreuzer and Jacobs.

 

[zeeCFC]

Sauce has really won me over, didn't figure him in my calculations past 2010 but he has definitely impressed! That's not to say Warnock and Hampson can't change my mind

 

[mac25]

Right now Jacobs is ahead of Hampson and Warnock, although the other two may look more athletic, Jacobs is smarter and more effective.
Not quite sure how or why Warnock is rated so highly by some, in his short career his reputation is clearly inflated by performances that are no better than either Jacobs or Hampson.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Jacobs is good against the dinosaurs, but struggled against the athletic Naitanui.

I'd have Hampson and Warnock ahead of Jacobs.

He struggled no more than Kreuzer did.

Jacobs was playing smart at ball-ups turning it into a more physical affair rather than trying to match Naita's leap and agility. It was good to see him use his brains rather than simply blindly 'back himself'.

That's the best thing about those who come up from the rookie list - they can't rely solely on raw talent and consequently appear to have more complete/all-round games than mid-range picks. They do the one percenters, they are (more often than not) footballers and, in Jacobs case, literally rarely do anything wrong.

He is always top of the D50 when the opposition are trying to pinpoint passes inside 50. Always on the wing for the long bailout - and has the best hands of any of our back-up ruckman. He's on the goal-line for long shots at goal, and he's smart enough not to get in any of our smaller blokes' paths.

I think he'll keep his place for a while yet, but with that said I'm not sure where the MC see his 'ceiling' as to how far he is capable of evolving.

I think the coaching staff will try to have two weapons in the ruck, as this is what the most dominant ruck duos have - take NN / Cox or the Ryder / Hille combinations. That's where Warnock's height and dominant pressure really comes to the fore / or Hampson's athleticism and leap.

Whilst Jacobs is a very good ruckman for us at the minute, he doesn't have that 'game-breaker' talent about him. (Let's hope they put him forward next week for 12 CMs and a return of 8.4)

 

[CarltonFan]

footballers >>>> athletes

Id rather have Sauce tapping it to Judd on grand final day than Hampson running really really fast.

 

[Kramer1]

Stupid thread, but if this turns into a discussion as to the relative merits of the four big guys, or rather the three vying for the second spot, well and good.

Sauce was quiet yesterday, but on the past weeks performances deserves a crack again next week. Still had a handful of tackles and a couple of clearances...you can see that he is trying hard to impose himself at the contests after ball-ups. I like that.

I expect Hampson will get a run when match-fit, and we will see Warnock again before the year is out. Good situation to be in.

 

[Silvagnis]

footballers >>>> athletes

Id rather have Sauce tapping it to Judd on grand final day than Hampson running really really fast.

Hampson was tapping it down Robinson's throat in his first game back in the VFL.

Hammer is a combination of Warnock's height, Kreuzer's mobility & versatility and Jacobs' tap work.

Hampson dropped back to spoil Bradshaw in the final, so I think we have short memories about his around the ground work.

For mine, Hampson and Kreuzer would be the better combination.

 

[Kramer1]

Hampson dropped back to spoil Bradshaw in the final, so I think we have short memories about his around the ground work.

You do have an irritating knack of taking one example as firm proof of a particular fact, despite considerable evidence to the contrary.

Hampson's positioning and around the ground work is the biggest thing holding him back.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Completely incorrect thread title. Should read "The ruck debate has only just started".

All our rucks are very young. It means nothing is set in stone for quite a bit as development/learning curves kick in at various time for each of the guys.

Above all, i can see us having 4 reasonable rucks meaning we can dish off one at some stage for a high draft pick. Who that is, dont know.

We're are in a good position come trade week now as quite a few teams will be deparate for a decent ruckman; Richmond, Port, Hawks, and GC with all their juicy picks. Surely they will be front and centre to trade for a 21/22 year old ruckman with AFL game experience.

I've already started praying to the GC gods to hand over some of those juicy picks.

Soz, going off topic again!

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

You do have an irritating knack of taking one example as firm proof of a particular fact, despite considerable evidence to the contrary.

Hampson's positioning and around the ground work is the biggest thing holding him back.

QFT.

Undeniably the most frustrating thing about The General's posts. Puts the odd good thing together then completely undoes it all with responses like "there was this one time, at band camp" type posts! And quotes one time as proof of the player's skills! When he does this, he reminds me of Milne, someone who really pisses people off with stupidity!

 

[Dennis]

Jocobs used his brain against Nic Nat

Forced body contact to mostly negate his leap