The war against renewable energy

[nut]

Well its pretty simple.

Lets say we have a 10m diameter , 30m tall block of steel on your skyscraper.
That's going to weigh 235 Tonnes. ( 7.8 tonnes/m3 ) So pretty heavy , will need significant infrastructure, probably the whole building would need to be stronger to accommodate it.

If the weight is able to be raised 150m , that will provide potential energy of mass x gravitational force (9.81m/s2) x height.
SI units are great, because 1 kg raised 1m gives 9.81 Joule of potential energy.
So 235000Kg raised 150m off the ground gives potential energy of 345802500 Joule.
Joule can be converted directly to Kwh by dividing by 3 600 000.
That gives you 96KWh

That's not very much.

So i hope you can understand why i suspect that you have no idea of the scale of what you are talking about.

Well it’s an idea getting seriously explored.

Colossal skyscrapers could harness height for gravity batteries

An ambitious new project wants to put giant weights inside superstructures to power turbines.

www.popsci.com

 

[nut]

There's an irony here

Increase electricity consumption with widespread EV's, CO2 spikes from manufacturing and base load power, refuse to walk through the heat those emission's created......hhhhhmmmmmm profit? I guess

Just mammal things

California now almost 100% renewables with batteries… and hydro.
So anything manufactured there has virtually zero CO2
Any EV charged there is also zero CO2.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

News from Victoria:

Burning gas emits around 0.24 kgCO2e/kwh vs 0.86 kg CO2e/kwh from the grid.
Yallourn power station by itself is probably on around 1.2Kg/kwh.

Temporarily replacing Yallourn with gas is a massive improvement.
The all or nothing approach is more religion than common sense.

No no cry the religious....gas is one of the evil ones, there is no greater or lesser evil...all must be cast asunder.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well it’s an idea getting seriously explored.

Colossal skyscrapers could harness height for gravity batteries

An ambitious new project wants to put giant weights inside superstructures to power turbines.

www.popsci.com

OMG ..... Hilarious stuff.


Excess energy generated by renewable energy or a nearby energy grid then raises the weight to the top of a superstructure—presumably the system generates more energy than is needed to do that.
Of course like any such battery or storage device, it will lose some energy along the way. Lifting and lowering weights would only have friction loss, so relatively small. But they really should stop that person from writing what are meant to be scientific articles.

I tend to agree with this comment from that page though.

As New Atlas notes, however, it’s probably a smart idea to treat this endeavor’s announcement with a bit of skepticism. Energy Vault has so far focused primarily on testing a much smaller, tangential systems capable of storing 25 MW/100 MWh of power. Then there’s all the countless logistical issues to consider such as building weight, overall efficiency, and day-to-day maintenance of a GESS design. A gravity-based generator will likely also need to be considerably large to be of any use to a 1km-tall superstructure—which could defeat its purpose if there’s little space left for actual people inside.

 

[peetoo]

EV's are the death roll(rattle?) of the car industry.

Moving 3 tonnes of metal to the shops to buy an avocado from Darwin isn't sustainable, just walk

EVs are 20 to 30 % heavier than not. Surely you mean e bike?

 

[nut]

OMG ..... Hilarious stuff.


Excess energy generated by renewable energy or a nearby energy grid then raises the weight to the top of a superstructure—presumably the system generates more energy than is needed to do that.
Of course like any such battery or storage device, it will lose some energy along the way. Lifting and lowering weights would only have friction loss, so relatively small. But they really should stop that person from writing what are meant to be scientific articles.

I tend to agree with this comment from that page though.

As New Atlas notes, however, it’s probably a smart idea to treat this endeavor’s announcement with a bit of skepticism. Energy Vault has so far focused primarily on testing a much smaller, tangential systems capable of storing 25 MW/100 MWh of power. Then there’s all the countless logistical issues to consider such as building weight, overall efficiency, and day-to-day maintenance of a GESS design. A gravity-based generator will likely also need to be considerably large to be of any use to a 1km-tall superstructure—which could defeat its purpose if there’s little space left for actual people inside.

Nor much different than pumped hydro

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Nor much different than pumped hydro

You're right.

The snowy dam holds something like 220 billion kg of water.
That's a lot of potential energy.

The difference between upper and lower reservoir is 700m, which is a lot taller than "most" skyskrapers.

So its like the skyscraper idea, only the skyscraper is around 5 acres in area, 700m high with nothing except water in it.

 

[peetoo]

World’s biggest solar farm goes is big enough to power an entire country

5GW facility is roughly the same area as New York City

www.independent.co.uk

Plus China enjoys maybe 3 hours more sunlight in a day across its borders than a lot of countries

Could there be a massive east west power transmission line across continental Asia/Europe ? With solar inputs and take offs?
Sun spends a quarter of the day passing overhead Beijing to Paris 6 hours
Would it be feasible?

 

[Rob R]

World’s biggest solar farm goes is big enough to power an entire country

5GW facility is roughly the same area as New York City

www.independent.co.uk

Plus China enjoys maybe 3 hours more sunlight in a day across its borders than a lot of countries

Could there be a massive east west power transmission line across continental Asia/Europe ? With solar inputs and take offs?
Sun spends a quarter of the day passing overhead Beijing to Paris 6 hours
Would it be feasible?

The more renewable power the better, but it would be even better if it didn't use imprisoned minority groups as labour.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[barreness]

World’s biggest solar farm goes is big enough to power an entire country

5GW facility is roughly the same area as New York City

www.independent.co.uk

Plus China enjoys maybe 3 hours more sunlight in a day across its borders than a lot of countries

Could there be a massive east west power transmission line across continental Asia/Europe ? With solar inputs and take offs?
Sun spends a quarter of the day passing overhead Beijing to Paris 6 hours
Would it be feasible?

It's a good idea, feasible in the engineering sense yes, with obvious loses. Not in the diplomatic sense though, need countries at logger heads to give up energy security

Should be done on a smaller scale in australia, west coast could cover a portion of the east coasts evening peak, particularly during summer. Maybe the reason WA refuses daylight savings lol, the grand plan

 

[barreness]

The more renewable power the better, but it would be even better if it didn't use imprisoned minority groups as labour.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I wonder which minority group fills our prisons? hmmmmmm
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/st...but-corporate-australia-wont-let-you-know-it/

Or that cheeky 13th amendment in the US, wouldn't find many minorities in their prisons I guess

 

[SaintsSeptember]

World’s biggest solar farm goes is big enough to power an entire country

5GW facility is roughly the same area as New York City

www.independent.co.uk

Plus China enjoys maybe 3 hours more sunlight in a day across its borders than a lot of countries

Could there be a massive east west power transmission line across continental Asia/Europe ? With solar inputs and take offs?
Sun spends a quarter of the day passing overhead Beijing to Paris 6 hours
Would it be feasible?

I think its kind of an unknown.
Normal AC power transmission, is a massive no.

There are lots of variables, but from what i can gather, there would be around 20% losses in a 7000km High voltage transmission.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's a good idea, feasible in the engineering sense yes, with obvious loses. Not in the diplomatic sense though, need countries at logger heads to give up energy security

Should be done on a smaller scale in australia, west coast could cover a portion of the east coasts evening peak, particularly during summer. Maybe the reason WA refuses daylight savings lol, the grand plan

W.A. refuse daylight savings because they are stupid.

 

[barreness]

W.A. refuse daylight savings because they are stupid.

Oi, I agree but it would work in advantage to change schedules for an intercontinental link. Still a fair bit of solar in perth at 4-5pm on a summers day, hit the 7-8pm peak on the east

 

[barreness]

I think its kind of an unknown.
Normal AC power transmission, is a massive no.

There are lots of variables, but from what i can gather, there would be around 20% losses in a 7000km High voltage transmission.

Not really unknown, ~3% loss per 1000km on high voltage dc. Say 15% loss Perth to Sydney, that's better than most batteries

China did one a while back that length, difficult but possible
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhvdc-transmission-project/

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not really unknown, ~3% loss per 1000km on high voltage dc. Say 15% loss Perth to Sydney, that's better than most batteries

China did one a while back that length, difficult but possible
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhvdc-transmission-project/

Its a variable, it depends on the size of the conductor and the voltage used.
Undersea ones work well because electrical conduction is better at low temperature.

 

[Sphynx]

Not really unknown, ~3% loss per 1000km on high voltage dc. Say 15% loss Perth to Sydney, that's better than most batteries

China did one a while back that length, difficult but possible
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhvdc-transmission-project/

I love how you even think a new high voltage transmission line from Perth to Sydney is a realistic option.

Other than every First Nations group along the way wanting to kill the project, it would cost $15-$20b before our unions even got their teeth into it.

With a labor Federal Government, the toilet cleaner would be on $250k per year after their site allowance, all their living away from home allowances etc came into effect for a project of that scale, with most of these payments scalable to the entire project end cost.

 

[Rob R]

I wonder which minority group fills our prisons? hmmmmmm
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/st...but-corporate-australia-wont-let-you-know-it/

Or that cheeky 13th amendment in the US, wouldn't find many minorities in their prisons I guess

I must have missed the concentration camps that we used for forced labour? Our indigenous brothers and sisters are over represented in jails but we admit it and are working on it, Xi denies it and continues to increase it just to make more money for the largest military build up in history because he is scared of the example free and democratic Taiwan sets.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[peetoo]

I must have missed the concentration camps that we used for forced labour? Our indigenous brothers and sisters are over represented in jails but we admit it and are working on it, Xi denies it and continues to increase it just to make more money for the largest military build up in history because he is scared of the example free and democratic Taiwan sets.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Can the environment afford to wait as long as it takes for china to become good guys?

 

[Rob R]

Can the environment afford to wait as long as it takes for china to become good guys?

No we can't wait for Xi to disappear, any progress is good just would be better if it happened ethically.

Note - China and the Chinese people are good, it is only Xi and his thugs that are the problem.

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[SaintsSeptember]

I love how you even think a new high voltage transmission line from Perth to Sydney is a realistic option.

Other than every First Nations group along the way wanting to kill the project, it would cost $15-$20b before our unions even got their teeth into it.

With a labor Federal Government, the toilet cleaner would be on $250k per year after their site allowance, all their living away from home allowances etc came into effect for a project of that scale, with most of these payments scalable to the entire project end cost.

Better to go underwater from Portland ( Where there is already a lot of AC infrastructure linking to Melbourne and NSW).
That shouldn't cause any first nations friction.
Have to be private industry. I really don't understand why government contracts are a license to print money.

It would be around 2000km long if they did that. That's at least a distance that's been done before.

But god knows the cost.

At the moment we probably don't have the renewable infrastructure to make use of such a beast.



I just read that new rooftop solar systems in Perth need to be able to lower their output on days when the grid can't handle it all.
So they have a glut of solar they can't use, but its a glut in a relatively small grid compared to the Eastern States.
The 2000km Chinese cable has a capacity of 8000MW.
The total capacity of Solar in W.A. is 3000MW so "sometimes" it would be useful, but for that sort of outlay you'd want to be using it all the time.

Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption

Electricity Maps is a live 24/7 visualization of where your electricity comes from and how much CO2 was emitted to produce it.

app.electricitymaps.com

They are currently ( right now) generating around 2.5GW using Coal and Gas with very little renewable.
( That includes all grids, the grids in W.A. are not interconnected ).

 

[nut]

No we can't wait for Xi to disappear, any progress is good just would be better if it happened ethically.

Note - China and the Chinese people are good, it is only Xi and his thugs that are the problem.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

How many countries has Xi and his thugs bombed lately?

 

[barreness]

I must have missed the concentration camps that we used for forced labour? Our indigenous brothers and sisters are over represented in jails but we admit it and are working on it, Xi denies it and continues to increase it just to make more money for the largest military build up in history because he is scared of the example free and democratic Taiwan sets.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I mean they look like re-education camps with slave labour, so closer to our prisons than nazi/british things imo. Still bad but you gain nothing by comparing them to the worst thing ever

You realise that Xinjiang has a separatist Muslim population that has committed a number of terror attacks?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict

I've been through "the largest build up" thing before, they spend less than us in GDP per capita. It's no where near the largest build up in history, you have to put in "at peacetime" before that even works on the stats

 

[barreness]

I love how you even think a new high voltage transmission line from Perth to Sydney is a realistic option.

Other than every First Nations group along the way wanting to kill the project, it would cost $15-$20b before our unions even got their teeth into it.

With a labor Federal Government, the toilet cleaner would be on $250k per year after their site allowance, all their living away from home allowances etc came into effect for a project of that scale, with most of these payments scalable to the entire project end cost.

Yeh lol, definitely the unions and first nations. I just said its possible not likely.

There's already road/rail that runs along it, property acquisition isn't the real problem. It's the state diplomacy and figuring out who pays what that is the issue, I don't think it'll happen because of this. Just pointing out it's possible, would be 20 billion though you're right, about a quarter of a submarine apparently

 

[nut]

The nearest charger to where i work is 4.4km away.
They charge 73c/KWh, which is pretty damn expensive in my book.

As far as i can work out, some hotels and restaurants have complimentary chargers, but normally the slower ( home type ) chargers.

Do you shop at Woolies? The have charging stations now .. some are free.