The war against renewable energy

[Sphynx]

It's almost like having an understanding of the split would be useful then


Wouldnt it

How would you understand it?

How many couriers in Australia drive vans?

How many electricians vs carpenters?

I really fail to see what you are trying to understand between vans and utes and why it even matters?


Australians like utes. If they don't have a ute, it might be a 4WD. Whats the problem?

It's unlikely to be a van, it's very unlikely to be an EV.

 

[Cap]

How would you understand it?

How many couriers in Australia drive vans?

How many electricians vs carpenters?

You could do it how ever you'd like.

Its almost like its something that is interesting

I really fail to see what you are trying to understand between vans and utes and why it even matters?

The conversation was about pavement princesses and their uselessness as actual tools of the trade.

Hence the question who is actually driving them.

Australians like utes. If they don't have a ute, it might be a 4WD. Whats the problem?

that wasnt even the intial question. No one is talking about 4wd, no one is talking about just utes.

It's unlikely to be a van, it's very unlikely to be an EV.

it is unbelievable that you are suggesting tradies don't use vans. Like you would have to almost live with your eyes closed not to see them.

When they arent using vans they are normally using normal utes with custom trays or just normal utes.

They arent usually using pavement princesses, hence the question, it would good to know who is.

 

[burge13]

Every tradie I know regrets buying a massive ute over a van and either switched back to one or will. Much neater, easier to unpack etc

Agree with posters the big oversized utes/trucks aren't tradies. more likely admin/projects etc for construction companies using them as a write off

 

[Mofra]

Every tradie I know regrets buying a massive ute over a van and either switched back to one or will. Much neater, easier to unpack etc

Agree with posters the big oversized utes/trucks aren't tradies. more likely admin/projects etc for construction companies using them as a write off

Actually was just talking to an accountant about this. The 4WDs doing school drop offs almost always being instant asset write off buys, tradie wives buying them.

 

[Sphynx]

You could do it how ever you'd like.

Its almost like its something that is interesting

The conversation was about pavement princesses and their uselessness as actual tools of the trade.

Hence the question who is actually driving them.

that wasnt even the intial question. No one is talking about 4wd, no one is talking about just utes.

it is unbelievable that you are suggesting tradies don't use vans. Like you would have to almost live with your eyes closed not to see them.

When they arent using vans they are normally using normal utes with custom trays or just normal utes.

They arent usually using pavement princesses, hence the question, it would good to know who is.

I didn't suggest tradies don't use vans.

I suggested the % is nowhere near comparable to places like Europe.

I'd hazard a guess over 80%+ of tradies in Aus would use utes, from experience.


"Pavement princess' aren't useless as tools of trade, where have you dredged this up?

They have a massively superior towing capacity, hugely superior wheelbase. The toolbox setups are enormous on them and have more than a few advantages (if you can afford them).

They are certainly impractical anywhere inner city to work out of or with, but so are large wheel base commercial vans. They don't fit in carparks either.

 

[Sphynx]

Actually was just talking to an accountant about this. The 4WDs doing school drop offs almost always being instant asset write off buys, tradie wives buying them.

Or basically any other privately owned company in Australia, no need to single out tradies.

Spouse company cars aren't exclusive to tradie wives.....

Pretty sure Tesla's aren't a job necessity for an accounting practice either.

 

[QuietB]

Every tradie I know regrets buying a massive ute over a van and either switched back to one or will. Much neater, easier to unpack etc

Agree with posters the big oversized utes/trucks aren't tradies. more likely admin/projects etc for construction companies using them as a write off

Massive utes are a joke. They are completely impractical. You need a ladder to reach the tray and you can’t fit anything in it anyway.

Completely useless as a tradie vehicle.

 

[QuietB]

Actually was just talking to an accountant about this. The 4WDs doing school drop offs almost always being instant asset write off buys, tradie wives buying them.

Those tradies wives were collecting JobKeeper as well - good times (as usual) for tradies.

They didn’t even stop working in CoVid

 

[Sphynx]

Massive utes are a joke. They are completely impractical. You need a ladder to reach the tray and you can’t fit anything in it anyway.

Completely useless as a tradie vehicle.

You might need a ladder to reach the tray if you are Caleb Daniel.

You realise you can buy them without the tub right?

 

[Sphynx]

Those tradies wives were collecting JobKeeper as well - good times (as usual) for tradies.

They didn’t even stop working in CoVid

Plenty of tradies stopped working during Covid.....

Only critical works were exempt for the 2 week shutdown, you know all those train stations, road upgrades, hospital upgrades etc that got completed during the shutdowns?

Or maybe you just didn't notice.

 

[QuietB]

You might need a ladder to reach the tray if you are Caleb Daniel.

You realise you can buy them without the tub right?

Haven’t seen many of them

 

[QuietB]

Plenty of tradies stopped working during Covid.....

Only critical works were exempt, you know all those train stations, road upgrades, hospital upgrades etc that got completed during the shutdowns?

Or maybe you just didn't notice.

The entire housing industry kept going

 

[Sphynx]

Haven’t seen many of them

I've seen plenty.

Do you have an issue with a Builder, Plumber, Sparky, Plasterer with a standard ute towing a tool trailer?

 

[burge13]

Massive utes are a joke. They are completely impractical. You need a ladder to reach the tray and you can’t fit anything in it anyway.

Completely useless as a tradie vehicle.

Brother's a painter and didn't take him long to go back to a van. Hated the big ute, Ranger I think (I'm not a car guy!)

 

[Mofra]

The entire housing industry kept going

Yep. Chippie mate of mine was doing 10+ hour days 6 days per week. Couldn't go out anyway and had just bought a house so he got a nice little leg up in paying off the mortgage. Place a had a garage and it was a decent man cave set up too by the end of it.

 

[Cap]

I didn't suggest tradies don't use vans.

I suggested the % is nowhere near comparable to places like Europe.

I'd hazard a guess over 80%+ of tradies in Aus would use utes, from experience.

so wouldn't it be great to know the actual numbers rather than us have a pissing contest.

"Pavement princess' aren't useless as tools of trade, where have you dredged this up?

becuase they generally are. They generally offer no more load capacity than smaller cars are twice the price and petrol use and what annoys everyone twice the size.

They have a massively superior towing capacity, hugely superior wheelbase. The toolbox setups are enormous on them and have more than a few advantages (if you can afford them).

sure, the have greater towing capacity for that carvan or jetski

They are certainly impractical anywhere inner city to work out of or with, but so are large wheel base commercial vans. They don't fit in carparks either.

exactly. Which it would be great to know who is actually driving them as to minimise the number of them needlessly driving around the inner city.

Its like you agree it would be good to know who is using them so we can plan appropriately

 

[Sphynx]

becuase they generally are. They generally offer no more load capacity than smaller cars are twice the price and petrol use and what annoys everyone twice the size.

They offer far more load capacity than smaller cars. Remember we are talking about a commercial vehicle in this instance and everyone getting their knickers in a knot about claiming them as a business expense.

If it's about pure wheelbase size? You better ban all trucks and trailers in the process.

sure, the have greater towing capacity for that carvan or jetski

Or for the 2t in timber and mesh you might put on your roof....

What's the issue if they are buying them for caravan towing? A lot of caravans require this towing capacity to be legally towed.

Unless you have an issue with regional tourism and the local manufacturing sector now?

exactly. Which it would be great to know who is actually driving them as to minimise the number of them needlessly driving around the inner city.

Its like you agree it would be good to know who is using them so we can plan appropriately

I don't generally like censoring peoples freedom of choice.

As I said, if you go down that rabbit hole, you better start banning all commercial vehicles of that size inner city, as well as trailers. Which they do in a quite a few European countries, which the population hate outside of the people who live there and then complain when they want any work done in there...

Caravans next as well I guess. A blight on our country enabling 10's of thousands to travel around it affordably, spend money regionally and enjoy the delights of the countries natural beauty. Damn pricks.

 

[Cap]

They offer far more load capacity than smaller cars. Remember we are talking about a commercial vehicle in this instance and everyone getting their knickers in a knot about claiming them as a business expense.

we aren't comparing them to smaller cars, just normal utes or vans.

If it's about pure wheelbase size? You better ban all trucks and trailers in the process.

No one was proposing anything. But they are regulated and can not go some places.

Or for the 2t in timber and mesh you might put on your roof....

Which will never happen on a regular basis.

I don't generally like censoring peoples freedom of choice.

No one is censoring people choice, merely wanting to know who is buying them and why.

As I said, if you go down that rabbit hole, you better start banning all commercial vehicles of that size inner city, as well as trailers. Which they do in a quite a few European countries, which the population hate outside of the people who live there and then complain when they want any work done in there...

No we really don't. That's just a silly rant.

I'm sorry if I've offended you because you have a pavement princess, that wasn't the point.

I just don't see the point subsidising an accountant from Toorak driving one to work each day. That has nothing to do with people who might legitimately use it for work purposes.

It's really that easy.

 

[Sphynx]

we aren't compsring them to smaller cars, just normal utes

I was comparing them to a normal ute. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Which will never happen.

Go to a Bowens/Mitre 10/Tradelink/Reece at 4:00pm in the afternoon and you might discover how most of these commercial vehicles are used.

I'm sorry if I've offended you because you have a pavement princess, that wasn't the point.

I just don't see the point subsidising an accountant from Toorak driving one to work each day. That has nothing to do with people who might legitimately use it for work purposes.

It's really that easy.

I don't own one. I own a 4WD.

I'm not too sure any accountants from Toorak are driving around in them claiming them as commercial work vehicle expense personally.

Secondly, the accountant from Toorak is subject to a whole different level of FBT given it would be used mostly for personal use, then there's different luxury car tax thresholds exposed to it for non-economic emission standards.

Then there's the cost to run them, insure them etc.

If a company want to pay all these taxes already imposed on them and claim them as an overhead (of which they only get a % return on it), who are you or I to tell someone how to run a business?


Do you get this worked up over the hundred of millions dollars cycled through company deductions for dinners, travel, flights, overseas accommodation that companies are willing to spend on face to face meetings when it could simply be done remotely?

How about the same applying to every company now opting to keep a physical office? Should we enforce that too? I mean it's an expense that could be spared and isn't absolutely necessary and is costing the federal government billions is lost taxes from company earnings...

What about a company spending $50m on their office fitout, should we cap spending on it as a % of revenue as it's unnecessary?

Just admit you are trying to sensor people for your own beliefs and personal preferences.

What you might deem as "unnecessary and ridiculous" might not be to someone else. The hilarious thing being people like yourself will be preaching inclusion from the rooftop in your very next breath.

Inclusion just doesn't apply to Bob the Brickie from Pakenham if it doesn't suit your political or environmental beliefs.


TLDR - People (or companies) should be able to drive whatever the hell they want to if they are willing to pay for it. Which is already ridiculously overtaxed already.

 

[Cap]

I was comparing them to a normal ute. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

honestly at this stage no one knows what you are talking about.

Go to a Bowens/Mitre 10/Tradelink/Reece at 4:00pm in the afternoon and you might discover how most of these commercial vehicles are used.

Yes, just left the local bunnings, lots of normal cars, normal utes, normal vans.

And a couple of pavement princesses, none of which had anything on their roof, in their tray or towing.

I don't own one. I own a 4WD.

I'm not too sure any accountants from Toorak are driving around in them claiming them as commercial work vehicles personally.

I think this conversation probably started because you aren't too sure to be honest.

Secondly, the accountant from Toorak is subject to a whole different level of FBT given it would be used mostly for personal use, then there's different luxury car tax thresholds exposed to it for non-economic emission standards.

Then there's the cost to run them, insure them etc.

Yes, no one is arguing any of that.

But thats a good point actually, they can afford to run them, rather than need them.

If a company want to pay all these taxes already imposed on them and claim them as an overhead (of which they only get a % return on it), who are you or I to tell someone how to run a business?

Thats not been the topic of this conversation , despite your best efforts.

Im not telling anyone anything.

Do you get this worked up over the hundred of millions dollars cycled through company deductions for dinners, travel, flights, overseas accommodation that companies are willing to spend on face to face meetings when it could simply be done remotely?

How about the same applying to every company now opting to keep a physical office? Should we enforce that too? I mean it's an expense that could be spared and isn't absolutely necessary and is costing the federal government billions is lost taxes from company earnings...

I'm not worked up. I merely made a pretty inoffensive question about wanting to know who buys them and you've turned it into some economic lesson from Temu

 

[Sphynx]

honestly at this stage no one knows what you are talking about.

Yes, just left the local bunnings, lots of normal cars, normal utes, normal vans.

And a couple of pavement princesses, none of which had anything on their roof, in their tray or towing.

I think this conversation probably started because you aren't too sure to be honest.

Yes, no one is arguing any of that.

But thats a good point actually, they can afford to run them, rather than need them.

Thats not been the topic of this conversation , despite your best efforts.

Im not telling anyone anything.

I'm not worked up. I merely made a pretty inoffensive question about wanting to know who buys them and you've turned it into some economic lesson from Temu

Bunnings

Nice one.

But thats a good point actually, they can afford to run them, rather than need them.

Who becomes the authority on any person or company needing something?

Again, you keep saying you aren't trying to tell or control people, it's plain as day the opposite.

 

[Cap]

Bunnings

Nice one.

Its the biggest in Adelaide to be fair.

Driving past multiple mitre 10s on the way home yielded no pavement princesses unfortunately.

Edit - i should say, I was in regional SA on the weekend, the only pavement princess was towing a boat......

Who becomes the authority on any person or company needing anything?

Again, you keep saying you aren't trying to tell or control people, it's plain as day the opposite.

So let me get this right.

Seeking to understand who buys pavement princesses is equal to telling people what to buy

you definitely get your arguments from Temu.

 

[Sphynx]

Its the biggest in Adelaide to be fair.

Driving past multiple mirre 10s on the way home yielded no pavement princesses unfortunately

So let me get this right.

Seeking to understand who buys pavement princesses is equal to telling people what to buy

you definitely get your arguments from Temu.

To be honest.

If someone wants to buy a truck, they can buy a truck.

If someone wants to buy a van, they should be able to buy a van.

IF someone wants a ute, buy a ute.

If someone wants a ram ute, buy a ram ute and pay the thousands and thousands in tax and benefit the government along the way.


You simply see them as an unnecessary extravagance with no practical value, with a 6.5L petrol engine under the hood (which is the real problem grinding you)

People criticizing them around their size and impracticality being the issue, but a Ranger with a 8x5 tool trailer on the back has a significantly longer wheel base and is significantly less practical in terms of maneuverability.

Guess what? It's still one of the most used setup's by tradespeople in the country.

Wait until the US style tool trailers hit the market here (basically twice the size of a horse float and the size of a small caravan), oh boy, the melts will be hilarious when they see one of them on the back of a Ram or Silverado.

 

[Cap]

To be honest.

If someone wants to buy a truck, they can buy a truck.

If someone wants to buy a van, they should be able to buy a van.

IF someone wants a ute, buy a ute.

If someone wants a ram ute, buy a ram ute and pay the thousands and thousands in tax and benefit the government along the way.


You simply see them as an unnecessary extravagance with no practical value, with a 6.5L petrol engine under the hood (which is the real problem you don't want to come clean on)

People criticizing them hide around their size and impracticality being the issue, but a Ranger with a 8x5 tool trailer on the back has a significantly longer wheel base and is significantly less practical in terms of maneuverability.

Guess what? It's still one of the most used setup's by tradespeople in the country.

Wait until the US style tool trailers hit the market here (basically twice the size of a horse float), oh boy, the melts will be hilarious when they see one of them on the back of a Ram or Silverado.

your fragile masculinity isnt my problem.

They can buy what they want i couldnt care less what people buy.

But my tax dollar doesnt need to be subsidising it, like it doesnt subsidise the guy that chooses a Ferarri over an Mazada 2.

 

[Sphynx]

your fragile masculinity isnt my problem

They can buy what they want i couldnt care less what people buy.

But my tax dollar doesnt need to be subsidising it, like it doesnt subsidise the guy that chooses a Ferarri over an Mazada 2.

It should and will remain whilst it's a viable commercial vehicle, which it is.






I don't like subsidising the sales rep that flies Qantas over Jetstar, or takes clients to Squires Loft over McDonalds, but here we are....