The war against renewable energy

[SaintsSeptember]

Cheaper better cars are coming.
Electric motors are cheaper and more reliable with less servicing.
The running costs, even with charging, are significantly cheaper over time than ICE cars.
A 10 year old ICE car is riddled with problems. EVs warranties are better.
The big issue was the initial upfront costs .. that has basically gone.
They are also safer… with experts saying that in the future seat belts might not even be needed…
I just lost a friend in a car accident where he was crashed by the petrol engine.

The people who say they might not need seatbelts in the future are at odds with the experts who say they will.
Explain how having an electric motor, instead of an internal combustion engine will stop your scull slamming into a windscreen? Are Volkswagon Beetles safer than front engined cars in an accident?

In the USA its mandatory to fit seatbelts in new cars, but not mandatory to wear them.
So instead of the supplementary restraint system we have here and in Europe, ( a system that assumes the occupant has a seatbelt on ), it has to use larger more aggressive airbags, they have to stop the occupant slipping under or around them, and they go off earlier. Because they have more volume, they need to have more explosive inflation.
There are far more injuries from the airbag deployment in the USA than Australia and Europe.

 

[Leeda]

As long as it doesn't disrupt my daily shave/haircut

 

[SaintsSeptember]

As long as it doesn't disrupt my daily shave/haircut

If they get the self driving thing working you might be able to take a shower on the way to work.

 

[Captivating]

You realise there isn’t an engine block or massive gear box.

If a car impacts something hard enough for an engine block to enter the cabin, it's a massive collision. If it was a EV, it would have most likely ruptured the battery cells and incinerated the occupants.

 

[peetoo]

The people who say they might not need seatbelts in the future are at odds with the experts who say they will.
Explain how having an electric motor, instead of an internal combustion engine will stop your scull slamming into a windscreen? Are Volkswagon Beetles safer than front engined cars in an accident?

In the USA its mandatory to fit seatbelts in new cars, but not mandatory to wear them.
So instead of the supplementary restraint system we have here and in Europe, ( a system that assumes the occupant has a seatbelt on ), it has to use larger more aggressive airbags, they have to stop the occupant slipping under or around them, and they go off earlier. Because they have more volume, they need to have more explosive inflation.
There are far more injuries from the airbag deployment in the USA than Australia and Europe.

We should have ugly cars resembling mobile mattresses if we were serious about safety.

After the basic transportation angle the status marketing is next. Some EVs pander to this

 

[Cap]

Pretty insane, the the comedy is as always, in the comments

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Pretty insane, the the comedy is as always, in the comments

I saw a cartoon on facebook, something about a fat guy on an e-bike charging it on coal.
The cartoonist and all the w***ers commenting missed the point entirely.

E=Bikes allow fat blokes to ride bikes, where they'd probably struggle on a regular bike.
Ie Fat blokes get fitter = good.

E-bikes with fat bloke on, probably weigh 120kg. SUV with fat bloke in it weighs 2000kg+ a bit more if its electric.
No matter how you charge it you are wasting less energy on the e-bike.

 

[Cap]

I saw a cartoon on facebook, something about a fat guy on an e-bike charging it on coal.
The cartoonist and all the w***ers commenting missed the point entirely.

E=Bikes allow fat blokes to ride bikes, where they'd probably struggle on a regular bike.
Ie Fat blokes get fitter = good.

E-bikes with fat bloke on, probably weigh 120kg. SUV with fat bloke in it weighs 2000kg+ a bit more if its electric.
No matter how you charge it you are wasting less energy on the e-bike.

The whole what are you charging it from argument is so incredibly frustrating.

hopefully it becomes a moot point sson enough

 

[barreness]

How many hundreds of teslas will this stuff surpass in terms of helping the environment

Forrest strikes $4 billion deal for electric trucks and dozers to eliminate fossil fuels at giant mines

Fortescue announces $4 billion deal for hundreds of electric trucks, dozers and excavators to help eliminate fossil fuels at its mines by the end of the decade.

reneweconomy.com.au

He'll abandon it much like his green hydrogen schemes.

Electrifying a mining set up is very difficult, batteries aren't the solution. Possible by putting everything on tracks and a third rail/overhead type set up. Would be way more in infrastructure costs and they'll probably power it off a gas turbine either way lol

Everyone uses batteries in their day to day life, they're ok for low power operations but degrade quickly. Energy density is the key and a battery (no matter how advanced) will be an order of magnitude less than a hydrocarbon product

 

[peetoo]

He'll abandon it much like his green hydrogen schemes.

Electrifying a mining set up is very difficult, batteries aren't the solution. Possible by putting everything on tracks and a third rail/overhead type set up. Would be way more in infrastructure costs and they'll probably power it off a gas turbine either way lol

Everyone uses batteries in their day to day life, they're ok for low power operations but degrade quickly. Energy density is the key and a battery (no matter how advanced) will be an order of magnitude less than a hydrocarbon product

Never the less. This technology applied in vehicles etc operating several hours a day is bettor for bottom line, environment than private cars which often aren’t even used 30 mins per day

 

[Cap]

He'll abandon it much like his green hydrogen schemes.

Electrifying a mining set up is very difficult, batteries aren't the solution. Possible by putting everything on tracks and a third rail/overhead type set up. Would be way more in infrastructure costs and they'll probably power it off a gas turbine either way lol

Everyone uses batteries in their day to day life, they're ok for low power operations but degrade quickly. Energy density is the key and a battery (no matter how advanced) will be an order of magnitude less than a hydrocarbon product

Full credit, saying batteries aren't the solution to mining, whilst quoting batteries being a solution in mining is very on brand.

 

[peetoo]

He'll abandon it much like his green hydrogen schemes.

Electrifying a mining set up is very difficult, batteries aren't the solution. Possible by putting everything on tracks and a third rail/overhead type set up. Would be way more in infrastructure costs and they'll probably power it off a gas turbine either way lol

Everyone uses batteries in their day to day life, they're ok for low power operations but degrade quickly. Energy density is the key and a battery (no matter how advanced) will be an order of magnitude less than a hydrocarbon product

All the coal mining diggers in Latrobe are electric, it’s just that that electric comes direct from dirty coal power

 

[nut]

He'll abandon it much like his green hydrogen schemes.

Electrifying a mining set up is very difficult, batteries aren't the solution. Possible by putting everything on tracks and a third rail/overhead type set up. Would be way more in infrastructure costs and they'll probably power it off a gas turbine either way lol

Everyone uses batteries in their day to day life, they're ok for low power operations but degrade quickly. Energy density is the key and a battery (no matter how advanced) will be an order of magnitude less than a hydrocarbon product

Yer and electric Ferries can charge 350kw of power in 6 minutes.

Where smart ferry charging begins with a smart grid

NORWAY: The Hareid-Sulesund ferry operations have reduced CO2 emissions by 7000 tonnes annually with the introduction of electric vessels. In transitioning ferries from diesel to pure electric power, powerful onshore support is essential, in the form of reliable infrastructure for rapid charging...

www.danfoss.com

 

[barreness]

Yer and electric Ferries can charge 350kw of power in 6 minutes.

Where smart ferry charging begins with a smart grid

NORWAY: The Hareid-Sulesund ferry operations have reduced CO2 emissions by 7000 tonnes annually with the introduction of electric vessels. In transitioning ferries from diesel to pure electric power, powerful onshore support is essential, in the form of reliable infrastructure for rapid charging...

www.danfoss.com

So they need onshore batteries to fast charge, otherwise you'd cook the grid. So doubling battery infrastructure as well as the extensive renewable build out. You can begin to see the problems that occur when convenience is attempted as well as a "green" transition

 

[barreness]

All the coal mining diggers in Latrobe are electric, it’s just that that electric comes direct from dirty coal power

Yeh when they can be mostly stationary this is easy, more the trucks I meant

 

[barreness]

Full credit, saying batteries aren't the solution to mining, whilst quoting batteries being a solution in mining is very on brand.

lol, how am I saying that?

Massive mining trucks will never be battery at scale, too expensive and this is a global commodity in a capitalist world. It's another Twiggy hair brain idea
Electrifying a mining set up is also expensive but semi feasible, it won't be using batteries except for lower powered niche areas.

Batteries as waste products would not be worth the environmental cost if we simply change every internal combustion engine into battery powered

 

[nut]

So they need onshore batteries to fast charge, otherwise you'd cook the grid. So doubling battery infrastructure as well as the extensive renewable build out. You can begin to see the problems that occur when convenience is attempted as well as a "green" transition

Some people see problems …. Others see solutions.
Technology is moving faster than anytime in history.

 

[Cap]

lol, how am I saying that?

Massive mining trucks will never be battery at scale, too expensive and this is a global commodity in a capitalist world. It's another Twiggy hair brain idea
Electrifying a mining set up is also expensive but semi feasible, it won't be using batteries except for lower powered niche areas.

Batteries as waste products would not be worth the environmental cost if we simply change every internal combustion engine into battery powered

Look I'm certainly not an expert in mining, but it seems mining companies are at least, testing this stuff out already.

I thought they'd go Hydrogen but it's a bold call to say batteries aren't the solution when quite clearly the industry seems to be investing in them

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Look I'm certainly not an expert in mining, but it seems mining companies are at least, testing this stuff out already.

I thought they'd go Hydrogen but it's a bold call to say batteries aren't the solution when quite clearly the industry seems to be investing in them

There are already some available , though these are for underground mining.

A lot of the larger mining trucks are already using electric drive trains, so its no engineering feat to use different systems to provide electricity to those drives.
Diesel Generator ( Currently most common )
Battery
Hydrogen - the tricky part is getting low cost green hydrogen. But its more feasible when you don't have to go far from the refuelling station. ( As opposed to long haul trucks that would need a national network ).

There are already some available , though these are for underground mining where zero emissions is a huge OHS benefit.

Electrification

www.rocktechnology.sandvik

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Saw a BYD bus near Dandenong this morning.
There is a big bus depot in the area so they might have been evaluation.

It stood out because it was so narrow it looked odd compared to other busses. Looked a bit like this one.

They have a lot of normal sized busses as well so i don't know why this one.
Maybe cheaper , because its a China domestic bus.
Maybe decided it makes sense to downsize a bit because the current huge busses never seem anywhere near full.

At least it didn't look like this one.

[Hot Item] China Manufacture 23 Passenger Mini Bus Electric Bus (ZH-L23)

Transmission Type: Automatic Fuel: Electric Seating Capacity: 23-35 Steering Position: LHD Maximum Speed: 50km/H Range: 100-500km

gzzhcar.en.made-in-china.com

 

[peetoo]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid029yVWWDH2v5i6k2oMNmT5EmPSKTa2PRDiQzFwETCMmGdpZzLheQdEczoADfsRrAPwl&id=100064828745189

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid029yVWWDH2v5i6k2oMNmT5EmPSKTa2PRDiQzFwETCMmGdpZzLheQdEczoADfsRrAPwl&id=100064828745189

Correct. England close their last coal mine with abot 6 times our population and Albanenese still arguing we need coal.
Abanese= Climate bastard.

 

[barreness]

Look I'm certainly not an expert in mining, but it seems mining companies are at least, testing this stuff out already.

I thought they'd go Hydrogen but it's a bold call to say batteries aren't the solution when quite clearly the industry seems to be investing in them

Neither am I, I'm a musician but I did a bit of engineering and love physics.

I could well be wrong......But; These kind of things seek to break thermodynamics and ignore many of the physical limits of the world.
It's green washing so he looks good. Which twiggy does all the time, see green hydrogen


Look I'll link a thing, but watch/read at your peril(and fact check). Australian scientist, Associate Professor of Geometallurgy at the Geological Survey of Finland





Edit: oh yeh soz, hydrogen is a menace to store or liquidise, gold lined tanks is the long term solution lol. if you can produce on site it is useful though

I think my main point is that we can't substitute oil, it's millions of years of stored solar energy, we must change the way we do things and accept that things won't be particularly easy in that process