The Way out? of this mess

[Plugger35]

We have one but they changed the system when we had a first round academy kid.

We always get screwed by the system.

It's before my time but I've heard we got screwed by the zone system.

Hawthorn got gifted our zone that generated their great players for their 80s premiership run.

We just got the lousy Ballarat zone which only paid dividends when we got the two great bookends Lockett and Frawley.

Then we lucked out as well by getting Winmar who the other big Victorian clubs passed over because he was too much trouble.

 

[akaifu]

The only way back is to hit the draft hard. Let Battle go for band 1 and either take 4&5 or take 4 in and split 5 for 2 teens picks.

Our draft haul should be Jagga + (pick 5 or 2 teens picks) + 2nd rounder + Cole + Peckett/Hofmann + Sandy rookie

Hopefully we can get one or two depth players with upside from other clubs - Peatling (potential midfield starter), Budarick (lockdown medium defender), Butts (full back) etc and then a ruckman such as Pittonet, Reidy, McAndrew, Bryan, Madden etc. Wouldn't mind a Luke Parker

26

Luke Parker

Age

31

Ht

183cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.2

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.8

5star

D

22.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

11.4

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

8.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

either if we can get him for a late 2nd at most. I feel like Sydney and Gold Coast could be gold mines for quality recycled players given all the talent they're being gifted - there'll be some good players either delisted or let go for cheap.

Clear out all the dead weight and be ruthless but not stupid; trade Paton for a late pick, let Membrey go, then delist Hayes, Allison, Hotton (I've given up on him, always had high hopes but he looks trash), Byrnes, Ross, Campbell, Jones. Bonner, Stocker (only bc it seems Ross loves Bonner over Stock), McLennan and JVE are borderline depending on other moves and the rest of the season.

Howard isn't worth anything to be trading, he's good backup while our kids develop. If someone offers a 2nd rounder then sure, but a 3rd isn't worth it imo given our current depth is Cordy and we're probably losing Battle

For the rest of this season, pump games into the kids but be calculated with it. Can't just bring everyone in and get thrashed every week. Heath needs a debut sometime over the next month - I'd target the Adelaide matchup vs O'Brien/Strachan to give Row a chopout after Grundy. We need to tank that game anyway for the pick. Dow and Clark were terrible today, Garcia and Phillipou need to take their spots at some point. I'd give Clark one more week, but Dow seems to need a longer rest with that ankle. Sharman needs to play the rest of the season as a permanent forward, no more fking around with his position, he needs continuity because he is our highest IQ and natural key forward. Keeler should get an opportunity, was good today in the VFL playing a mixture of roles

Other players need some role changes. Henry is not a full time mid, he is a burst mid to help us gain momentum. Should predominantly be a high half forward at least in the near future. Keep Max as the 2nd ruck to teach him about competitiveness, he has no clue atm. Mitchito needs a big pre-season learning midfield craft and should be at least a 40% mid next year. I still think Caminiti is a forward for now, just because we have no other options but we have several talls in defence who can play a role, but I do like him as a defender

Hypothetically:
In: Jagga Smith, pick 5 or split, 2nd rounder, Cole, Peckett/Hofmann, Sandy rookie; Peatling, Butts, ruckman, experienced player (Parker?)
Out: Paton, Membrey, Hayes, Allison, Hotton, Byrnes, Ross, Campbell, Jones, Bonner/Stocker/McLennan

This is ideal 22 by the end of next year:
Preferred 22:
FB: Wilkie, Butts, Keeler
HB: Nas, Caminiti, Sinc
C: Wood, Steele, Hill
HF: Henry, King, Owens
FP: Butler/Collard, Sharman, Marshall
F: Heath, Parker, Windhager
I/C: Arie, Higgins, Wilson, Jagga/Peatling
Depth: Pick 5, Clark, Stocker, Webster, Doug, Pittonet, 2nd rounder

Probably unrealistic: I'm hoping Keeler and Wilkie can manage a small and a 3rd tall between them depending on matchups. Otherwise Webster or Stocker in for Keeler. Butts lockdown, Caminiti CHB as a Lever type. Doug as backup on a cheap contract. Arie Nas Sinc as the rebounders - I don't want Arie to have a confusing role between having to lockdown and attack at the same time so early in his career. Owens and Henry to rotate through mids, Parker can rest forward at times. Heath/Pittonet primary ruck to let Marshall and King form hopefully a solid partnership up forward. King and Sharman rotate between deep forward and CHF - Marshall to roam. Collard ideally as the pressure forward, but Butler to fill the role if he isn't ready. Higgins and Wilson are a given. Jagga ideally is in our best 22 and is physical enough to play a half forward/midfield role, with Peatling able to replace him if needed.

 

[PandaG]

Battle has to go if pick 5 is on the table because we’d jump at that if any club offered it

Take 4 and 5 to the draft to get the best available mids

Ari plays the Battle role, Keeler hopefully develops enough to get some gametime

Pou comes back into the fold with another pre season

See if we can maybe get Will Brodie out of Freo just to win some midfield ball

Hopefully Dalrymple can pick a few gems to speed up the process

Ari is not ready to play the battle role
Would have to look at Tomlinson or Nick Hayes for a year

 

[PandaG]

The way out is to keep following the path we are on, just need more time.
Play the young guys, move the experienced ones on
Ross
Memebrey
Jones
Paton
Etc

and get the draft picks right.

It just takes time

 

[ScrappyDo]

It sounds like Battle is gone, Membrey, Ross are out. Paton and Dougal on the trade table. Crouch and Hayes probably medical retirements. A few of the fringe young guys might be in trouble too. Think we are looking at going backward next year. We are going to be very young and our only good line is going to be decimated.

I dunno, there's not much more backwards to be had. Of the players mentioned, none have had much contribution this year.
If next year Pou finds his feet and there's growth from the 2nd year players it'll be on par but I'm happy to see the old guard moved on at this point.
Actually, today we played without any of Ross, Jones, Membrey, Howard or Crouch. Have things already shifted without anyone noticing??

 

[ScrappyDo]

Need to stick fat imho!!

Losing battle and king isn’t going to help us. King needs to get better plain and simple. He’s the key moving forward.

We need midfielders. If we need to offer Bailey Smith and or Harley Reid an open cheque then do it.

Membrey might get u some currency in tye market and won’t hurt the current team if we lose him. that’s about it lbh.

we need better assistants around Ross. There is a disconnect with the current crop. The players aren’t on the same page on what’s required. Which they seemed last year.

16 of our current squad have played over 100 games of AFL footy. So the excuses are gone!!!

We'll get nothing for Membrey. End of 3rd round at best but odds on he retires if he doesn't stay.

 

[Sully111]

Assistants have to go.

Been saying this for ages

 

[ScrappyDo]

We keep trying to avoid it but a rebuild is the only way out. Early draft picks are our only hope plus a non shit gameplan.

Anyone over 27 who wants to go can go. Go full North Melbourne.

We've been soft rebuilding anyway.
King
Stocker
Henry
Sharman
Hammer
Byrnes
Nas
Windy
Chito
Pou
Wilson
Garcia
Schoonamonster
Heath
Keeler
JVE
Hotton*
Collard
Hastie
McLennan
Allison*
Irish
Hall

That's a lot of youth right there. Obviously we need more top end but you can't say they're not trying.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Been saying this for ages

I just can't see it happening. I think there's a big question mark over Lenny stepping back and what exactly BJ and Harvey are bringing to the table, but the real question is who can we get?
But is it the assistants or RTB? Or the players?

 

[hayes]

We have been rebuilding since 2011. Starting again is bullshit and a cowards way out. Most of us know what we need to be competitive next year. Midfield quality, an attacking game plan and some forward structure.

Losing quality players is the club trying to hide from their mistakes.

We’ve gone the top up route since the trading frenzy of 2019 until last year. I wouldn’t call trading out of pick 6 for Brad Hill part of a rebuild.

We can keep the stop gaps going like your suggestion and then when North go flying past us in the next year or two you’ll be wondering “gee how did this happen” and it’s because they’ve been loading up on pick 1’s and 2’s for years and actually giving themselves a shot at a flag instead of trying to scrap things together to almost make finals. Possibly making finals is the best case scenario of your plan.

 

[hayes]

We've been soft rebuilding anyway.
King
Stocker
Henry
Sharman
Hammer
Byrnes
Nas
Windy
Chito
Pou
Wilson
Garcia
Schoonamonster
Heath
Keeler
JVE
Hotton*
Collard
Hastie
McLennan
Allison*
Irish
Hall

That's a lot of youth right there. Obviously we need more top end but you can't say they're not trying.

We’ve done that but because we’ve brought in so many mature players over the years we’ve avoided the bottom of the ladder and the cream picks. There’s a lot to work with but none of it works without a midfield.

 

[cartwright]

The way out is to keep following the path we are on, just need more time.
Play the young guys, move the experienced ones on
Ross
Memebrey
Jones
Paton
Etc

and get the draft picks right.

It just takes time

This. Basically the next and last time we see any of these guys play should be round 24.

 

[gringo2011]

I dunno, there's not much more backwards to be had. Of the players mentioned, none have had much contribution this year.
If next year Pou finds his feet and there's growth from the 2nd year players it'll be on par but I'm happy to see the old guard moved on at this point.
Actually, today we played without any of Ross, Jones, Membrey, Howard or Crouch. Have things already shifted without anyone noticing??

And we're shit. I can't believe how many people just accept our fate. Lyon has gone backwards from where Ratts had us with better staff and a better list playing horrible footy.

Wilson and Shoenmaker were the only new kids. Caminiti, Owens, Henry and Windhager if we include under 22s. That isn't a young side.

 

[gringo2011]

We’ve gone the top up route since the trading frenzy of 2019 until last year. I wouldn’t call trading out of pick 6 for Brad Hill part of a rebuild.

We can keep the stop gaps going like your suggestion and then when North go flying past us in the next year or two you’ll be wondering “gee how did this happen” and it’s because they’ve been loading up on pick 1’s and 2’s for years and actually giving themselves a shot at a flag instead of trying to scrap things together to almost make finals. Possibly making finals is the best case scenario of your plan.

We will never catch North in a draft led rebuild, people have been shitting on me for saying the same thing for 10 years. This is the insanity. The old guys retire and Battle, King and Snags are the only decent mid 20s players we have. We will bottom out just at Tassie hits and takes all the draft capital. It's like we timed this to absolutely crash the club. The president being obsessed with draft concessions says that they think we are bottoming out IMO.

We have totally ****ed the timing so need to try to build around what we have. We already have a lot of youth, we need to keep adding high picks and finding existing cheap talent and hope we look good enough to attract quality FAs and trades.

 

[hayes]

We will never catch North in a draft led rebuild, people have been shitting on me for saying the same thing for 10 years. This is the insanity. The old guys retire and Battle, King and Snags are the only decent mid 20s players we have. We will bottom out just at Tassie hits and takes all the draft capital. It's like we timed this to absolutely crash the club. The president being obsessed with draft concessions says that they think we are bottoming out IMO.

We have totally ****ed the timing so need to try to build around what we have. We already have a lot of youth, we need to keep adding high picks and finding existing cheap talent and hope we look good enough to attract quality FAs and trades.

There’s plenty of time to load up on early picks before Tassie come and either way I don’t think we have a choice. We need our Brayshaw/Serong/Young, Petracca/Oliver/Viney etc. and history shows you can’t buy them. The real worry is our best and most important player by far is Sinclair and he turns 30 next year. If we’re bad now wait until he starts dropping off.

We need as many picks as possible both for kids and the odd trade. Living in denial with any other option IMO.

 

[BrutThough]

And we're shit. I can't believe how many people just accept our fate. Lyon has gone backwards from where Ratts had us with better staff and a better list playing horrible footy.

Wilson and Shoenmaker were the only new kids. Caminiti, Owens, Henry and Windhager if we include under 22s. That isn't a young side.

Is the staff better? Or did the new people just play for us?

 

[The Punter]

Accept responsibility for success

 

[gringo2011]

There’s plenty of time to load up on early picks before Tassie come and either way I don’t think we have a choice. We need our Brayshaw/Serong/Young, Petracca/Oliver/Viney etc. and history shows you can’t buy them. The real worry is our best and most important player by far is Sinclair and he turns 30 next year. If we’re bad now wait until he starts dropping off.

We need as many picks as possible both for kids and the odd trade. Living in denial with any other option IMO.

This draft just doesn’t have them. Throw a huge offer to Callaghan or Brayshaw and shake one loose. Draft with your high picks. Bottom out will take another 7 to 10 years to pay dividends and be commercially horrendous

 

[Imtellingya]

I dunno, there's not much more backwards to be had. Of the players mentioned, none have had much contribution this year.
If next year Pou finds his feet and there's growth from the 2nd year players it'll be on par but I'm happy to see the old guard moved on at this point.
Actually, today we played without any of Ross, Jones, Membrey, Howard or Crouch. Have things already shifted without anyone noticing??

Battle can probably see the fun, rascal environment over at the Hawks. Our captain and best first year player are both serious introverts. We need some serious laughter around the place whilst still maintaining high standards

 

[Sully111]

Until our coaching improves, it's impossible to judge the list.

We are a poorly coached football team.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

We've been shafted on the Father Son picks too, we should have the Harvey brothers passing to the Lockett and Loewe brothers.

All we got was Bailey Rice who we had to fight Carlton with to get and then we delisted him.

You're being a bit selective there Plugger35.


























We also had Chad Davis who got his knackers chewed off at VFL level

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We have one but they changed the system when we had a first round academy kid.

Also i think our academy zone is the carpark of Coles Sandringham.

 

[ScrappyDo]

And we're shit. I can't believe how many people just accept our fate. Lyon has gone backwards from where Ratts had us with better staff and a better list playing horrible footy.

Wilson and Shoenmaker were the only new kids. Caminiti, Owens, Henry and Windhager if we include under 22s. That isn't a young side.

But they told us this would happen. That's why people accept it. Because they said it would happen.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Agree with everything except Smith and Reid. We probably need to chase an elite inside mid. Reid is a waste of time. He's not coming to a bottom side and Smith is too outside. Probably draft mids and chase some like Brodie, Parker, Macrae types for a bridge until they come on.

I'd see if you could do something like get Macrae and Caleb Daniel and take over their contracts for minimal outlay. Pretty sure they gave them long contracts and aren't getting games.

Rory Atkins, Charlie Lazzaro, Fin Macrae. Even Joel Trudgeon. He's never got a go but looks good as a big inside mid to me. I'd seriously get Goober in on the list and get him fit. He's a step above VFL.

Harvey Hooper from Port Melb.

 

[gringo2011]

Harvey Hooper from Port Melb.

How old is he? Seems to have been around for ever. He's a handy player though.