List Mgmt. Tim Kelly remains a Cat for 2019

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Your understanding of kelly is wrong. Geelong wasnt the only one willing to give him a try this year. He would of gone to a heap of clubs if we didnt take him at the high pick we did. He stared in the wafl last year after doing very little before. There is zero chance he would not be playing afl if geelong didnt take him. And geelong refused to punt om him earlier in his career as well. Lets not pretend we tried to help him out. We took him only when we were certain he would contribute.

There is a big difference between danger and kelly. Kelly has 3 infant kids and at the time danger had none.

WCE and Freo both had 2 picks before Geelong in last years draft as well as any other number of clubs.

The big difference between Danger and Kelly is the service that Danger gave Adelaide. Kelly knew there was a very large risk of having to leave WA, kids or no kids.

 

[iameviljez]

WCE and Freo both had 2 picks before Geelong in last years draft as well as any other number of clubs.

The big difference between Danger and Kelly is the service that Danger gave Adelaide. Kelly knew there was a very large risk of having to leave WA, kids or no kids.

Yeah, I think that's very different to the reality of actually going through with moving interstate. His partner and how she might feel about uprooting her life to Geelong is also a factor.

Being drafted at 17 as a schoolboy is also very, very different to being drafted at 23 with a family. You're right in that previous service to the club is a factor, but so is the fact that they are at totally different life stages.

Freo had picks 2 and 5 - Kelly is good, but not THAT good. I reckon Freo's pretty happy with Cerra and Brayshaw for those picks. West Coast will be kicking themselves for not taking him at 21, though.

 

[Sticksman]

The only part I agree with in your first sentence is yes, get the max out of any trade.

As for Williams, yes, it wouldn't have cost much more for the club, who were basically broke at the time, to keep him and they should have done more to scrape the extra $5K or whatever it was together and kept him, but after really taking a punt on him after he was twice rejected by Carlton, it was pretty disappointing when he left. Quite a few of the other senior players at the time obviously felt so too at the time if reports of punch ups in bottle shops at The Lord of The Isles and other altercations were true.

Yeah the club was a shambles at that time. Probably another factor that drove Williams away.

 

[Sticksman]

If Tim isn't prepared to agree to an extension by September this year then it may force our hand. So long as both parties show respect for the other side's needs then it doesn't have to result in bitterness.

There haven't been many players who have wanted to leave Geelong in the last 10 years. GAJ got the deal of a lifetime and it was understandable he took it. AC basically got the flick and we pushed one or two into retirement against their wishes. I can't recall if there was a player we desperately wanted to keep who still chose to leave. I'm still not sure about Caddy's departure. It looks like we wanted to keep him but Richmond got into his ear. Maybe I'm missing someone obvious?

 

[Spazz Cat]

If we have to let him go then I'd want two second round picks.
Yes he only cost one second round pick.

But he's already worth a heap more now.

And I can't see anyone releasing a first rounder.

Seems a very reasonable trade with a good drafting coming up.

 

[Pack Specialist]

I have no issue if Kelly wants to leave.

He's a good player but being a father should come first.

Anyone with kids should have a secure network of friends and family to provide stability and support.

WA is where he and his partner have the most support.

Kelly for Cerra makes a lot of sense IMO.

Kelly would play 100-150 quality games for them and they know it.

Cerra is the type of prospect we need.

Would be a coup IMO.

 

[BORIS332]

I have no issue if Kelly wants to leave.

He's a good player but being a father should come first.

Anyone with kids should have a secure network of friends and family to provide stability and support.

WA is where he and his partner have the most support.

Kelly for Cerra makes a lot of sense IMO.

Kelly would play 100-150 quality games for them and they know it.

Cerra is the type of prospect we need.

Would be a coup IMO.

Absolutely kidding yourself if you think we’re getting Cerra.

 

[Pack Specialist]

Absolutely kidding yourself if you think we’re getting Cerra.

Perhaps but you're kidding yourself if you don't think we'll at least try.

Ross wants to win now and Kelly will help them to do so.

Cerra wants to come home are the rumours.

Kelly might not be a top 5 pick but he's a top 5 talent from this draft IMO.

 

[BORIS332]

Perhaps but you're kidding yourself if you don't think we'll at least try.

Ross wants to win now and Kelly will help them to do so.

Cerra wants to come home are the rumours.

Kelly might not be a top 5 pick but he's a top 5 talent from this draft IMO.

Where are you getting the idea that Ross wants to win now? He hasn’t blooded Brayshaw, Cerra, Giro, Crowden, Tucker, Langdon, etc etc this season for immediate success. I think you’re trying to convince yourself that we’ll get rewarded handsomely for Kelly, when really we’re on the wrong side of the ledger and we’ll likely get a second round pick at best.

 

[Pack Specialist]

Where are you getting the idea that Ross wants to win now? He hasn’t blooded Brayshaw, Cerra, Giro, Crowden, Tucker, Langdon, etc etc this season for immediate success. I think you’re trying to convince yourself that we’ll get rewarded handsomely for Kelly, when really we’re on the wrong side of the ledger and we’ll likely get a second round pick at best.

Well I'd say Ross Lyon's whole career would show he wants to and knows how to win.

Yes they've been blooding kids for a few season's now, I'd say he wants to make finals sooner than later (this season is even a possibility)

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything.

Tim Kelly has value, especially whilst contracted, it would seem that you are trying to convince yourself otherwise.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

If Tim isn't prepared to agree to an extension by September this year then it may force our hand. So long as both parties show respect for the other side's needs then it doesn't have to result in bitterness.

There haven't been many players who have wanted to leave Geelong in the last 10 years. GAJ got the deal of a lifetime and it was understandable he took it. AC basically got the flick and we pushed one or two into retirement against their wishes. I can't recall if there was a player we desperately wanted to keep who still chose to leave. I'm still not sure about Caddy's departure. It looks like we wanted to keep him but Richmond got into his ear. Maybe I'm missing someone obvious?

With caddy it was Prestia who swayed him.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Perhaps but you're kidding yourself if you don't think we'll at least try.

Ross wants to win now and Kelly will help them to do so.

Cerra wants to come home are the rumours.

Kelly might not be a top 5 pick but he's a top 5 talent from this draft IMO.

What’s so special about this Cerra? I know nothing about him but hear him mentioned quite a bit.

 

[Pack Specialist]

What’s so special about this Cerra? I know nothing about him but hear him mentioned quite a bit.

He was pick 5 last draft to Fremantle.

Could have been #1 but had a lot of injuries as a junior.

He's a 6'1 midfielder

He's played 4 games(?) this season so far.

Murmurings have him keen to head back to Vic.

 

[Down at K Park]

That's effectively draft tampering, it assumes that he knew that it would be this difficult, and it assumes that he told us that all would be rosy and fine. My understanding is that Geelong didn't actually speak to him before the draft?

That’s not what i recall. Im sure he said himself that we spoke to him and told him we were interested.

 

[Turbocat]

The only part I agree with in your first sentence is yes, get the max out of any trade.

As for Williams, yes, it wouldn't have cost much more for the club, who were basically broke at the time, to keep him and they should have done more to scrape the extra $5K or whatever it was together and kept him, but after really taking a punt on him after he was twice rejected by Carlton, it was pretty disappointing when he left. Quite a few of the other senior players at the time obviously felt so too at the time if reports of punch ups in bottle shops at The Lord of The Isles and other altercations were true.

As I understand it it was not about the 5G ..its was what they would get as a transfer.. From memory 60 G or there abouts. The club was threadbare. Its was just before the arrival of the new VFL , when it expanded to 14 clubs and about 6 out the 12 clubs were hands out and newspaper in the shoes.

 

[Turbocat]

That's effectively draft tampering, it assumes that he knew that it would be this difficult, and it assumes that he told us that all would be rosy and fine. My understanding is that Geelong didn't actually speak to him before the draft?

Id suggest he would have to say Im quite willing to play any where to get drafted. And as he said it he probably meant it.. but how long is anything like that good for.. whats the divorce rate in Australia.

If clubs want to stop early go homes then introduce the ability for them to choose at draft time..just like Father Sons and Academy players. Imagine if Geelong could pre-sign a couple of players each year.. my guess is mostly we would focus on locals if they are good enough.If we did sign a player from out of state then we would really know they want to be here.

Are we really saying TK would have chosen us in front of a WA club if he had an academy like choice? Cousins barracked for us all his life and chose to stay home. A big test this year will be Bailey Scott.. does he stay home or choose to come south. The majority of players would not be pre-offered a spot pre draft.. usually players R2 or later would be just happy to be in the system. TK is different because he is 23 , family etc.

If we make or do not make the finals may play a part as well. If fall short it may change our empathy for being too social at the trade table.

 

[Turbocat]

WCE and Freo both had 2 picks before Geelong in last years draft as well as any other number of clubs.

The big difference between Danger and Kelly is the service that Danger gave Adelaide. Kelly knew there was a very large risk of having to leave WA, kids or no kids.

I agree 8 to 1 years of service...

There is little doubt that WC were going to draft Kelly with P26. We jumped in front of them. I think they gambled that he would be there at 26 and they could draft Ryan at 32. Now one might say they were a little too smart.. as it was known we were into Kelly..perhaps they didn't think we would go that early for him. 24 for a WAFL player is early..has anyone WAFL player been drafted that early? In our pre draft guesses on here I certainly avoided him for that reason.. but the clubs felt confident enough to draft him before WC got him.

 

[Turbocat]

....
Freo had picks 2 and 5 - Kelly is good, but not THAT good. I reckon Freo's pretty happy with Cerra and Brayshaw for those picks. West Coast will be kicking themselves for not taking him at 21, though.

Well maybe. thats depends on whether they get Kelly and what they pay. Allen has been injured ..and a Larke medalist.

 

[Turbocat]

What’s so special about this Cerra? I know nothing about him but hear him mentioned quite a bit.

 

[Sticksman]

With caddy it was Prestia who swayed him.

That was a factor for sure.

As I understand it it was not about the 5G ..its was what they would get as a transfer.. From memory 60 G or there abouts. The club was threadbare. Its was just before the arrival of the new VFL , when it expanded to 14 clubs and about 6 out the 12 clubs were hands out and newspaper in the shoes.

Thanks for that Turbocat. I bet most posters here don't know what newspaper in the shoes means. It takes me back a long way.

 

[iameviljez]

If clubs want to stop early go homes then introduce the ability for them to choose at draft time..just like Father Sons and Academy players.

The AFL and the northern states would never acquiesce to that, nobody of worth would ever want to move to Brisbane or the expansion clubs.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Kelly's first 10 games have not only been far better than those of Caddy and Christensen, they have been in a completely different class.

You'd hope so. Kelly is nearly 24 years old. Christensen and Caddy were playing their first games of AFL as 18 year olds. If you compare where they are at the point where they were/will be traded, which has them at a similar age, then their output is fairly similar. Kelly likely has little improvement left, so he is very much in the same sort of category as those 2, and he will therefore be only viewed by opposition clubs as worthy of a similar price. Had Geelong pushed for more from those earlier deals, WCE may have felt they would need to cough up more but it's clear that they won't.

 

[Strange Cat]

A lot of hysteria over nothing

Mark my words he won’t leave

 

[Turbocat]

The AFL and the northern states would never acquiesce to that, nobody of worth would ever want to move to Brisbane or the expansion clubs.

Thats the reality of the situation. They really dont want to go. Most of them anyway. You are forcing players against their natural wants and desires. One can make the argument..that if one joins the army you could serve anywhere but we are not the army.. and talented sportsmen are more like employes than that. For the good of the comp..players have agreed to put aside the rights ..for a period of time.. but on occasionally we will see these outliers ..like Buckley , Boyd that very quickly move to a personal choice.

I have long been an advocate for giving all afl clubs access to an expanded academies so more and more kids are available .. Id love to have access to all the Falcons but Im not really advocating that unless they remove FSon.. Im talking non afl background. We must continue to be proactive ..have a look at what happened to the socceroos ... and Id say they will be coming for indginious talent soon. Where is their Eddie Betts or Riolli or Motlop or Narkle..
If Geelong or Collingwood can have an academy that secures a kid from Soccer or Cricket or Basketball or where ever ..it still means more AFL kids.. and part of that , imo , the northern clubs should be able to list guys from their academies..without having to draft them..while they are not finals sides.

Anyway I divert the thread. Id not be overly peeved at him for wanting to move..but the clubs should be hard at the draft table while he is in contract IF he wants to move. I hope he stays...a second year would enamour him more to me ..to being a little more social to get him him.

 

[Cezz The Catter]

At this point I reckon this would be a fair deal.

In:
Freos pick 6
Sean Darcy

Out:
Geelong pick 10
Tim Kelly