Time to scrap all Vic clubs and create 3-4 mega Vic franchises

[Coolangatta]

Send St Kilda, North Melbourne, Gold Coast and GWS back to the VFL. Add the Tasmania team to the VFL. Take the Reserves teams out of all the State Leagues.

14 AFL teams with "Reserves" that have top up players under 19. A proper elite competition - 26 Rounds home and away.

Create stronger VFL, SANFL and WAFL competitions with higher salary caps and better marketing.

So Tasmania never gets to play in the AFL? Or is there a relegation and promotion system?

26 rounds is too many for H&A. Players association would boycott. Wouldn’t be able to complete a finals series in September either, probably not until late October.

 

[Underarm]

So Tasmania never gets to play in the AFL? Or is there a relegation and promotion system?

26 rounds is too many for H&A. Players association would boycott. Wouldn’t be able to complete a finals series in September either, probably not until late October.

They're always going to be smaller than North and saints so if you're kicking them out you can't really have Tasmania.

 

[Coolangatta]

They're always going to be smaller than North and saints so if you're kicking them out you can't really have Tasmania.

You can, you just decide to have the struggling club from a new market that grows the talent pool and TV rights instead of the clubs from a chock full market that will still be strong without a couple of clubs.

Like how losing Fitzroy and South Melbourne didn’t destroy the AFL. They absolutely can decide who to support and drop.

Or we don’t kick anyone out unless the AFL finds itself being in the uncomfortable position of being unable to support struggling clubs?

If we ever get beyond 24 teams we’ll have to go to conferences, which people won’t like but it’s the only way.

Keep non-Vic teams from the same state together, rotate the Victorian teams, and rotate the pairings of interstate teams and Tassie/ACT/NT. Weighted degree of difficulty can be factored in.

 

[Hallstrom]

There are some obvious senior/junior and geographical pairs that would make most sense for mergers.

Carlton/North: new name North Melbourne Blues. New strip is same as Carlton but in Royal Blue. Keep the CCF monogram.

Richmond/Melbourne: new name Melbourne Tigers. New strip is the Melbourne design in Richmond colours.

Hawthorn/St Kilda: New name Monash Hawks. New strip is saints tri-colours but with black and white replaced with gold and brown.

Essendon/Bulldogs: new name West Melbourne Bulldogs. New strip keep the red sash but change black to royal blue.

Leave Collingwood (always banging on about how they are the biggest club) and Geelong (not in Melbourne) as is.

 

[AndyD]

You can, you just decide to have the struggling club from a new market that grows the talent pool and TV rights instead of the clubs from a chock full market that will still be strong without a couple of clubs.

Like how losing Fitzroy and South Melbourne didn’t destroy the AFL. They absolutely can decide who to support and drop.

Or we don’t kick anyone out unless the AFL finds itself being in the uncomfortable position of being unable to support struggling clubs?

If we ever get beyond 24 teams we’ll have to go to conferences, which people won’t like but it’s the only way.

Keep non-Vic teams from the same state together, rotate the Victorian teams, and rotate the pairings of interstate teams and Tassie/ACT/NT. Weighted degree of difficulty can be factored in.

Please explain how a “new market” helps grow the TV rights? Sydney couldn’t crack 60k in a grand final season after 40 years in the largest media market in the country. What untapped market exists that a TV or Streaming company is going to be paying a premium for to help with development, with absolutely zero certainty they will even be broadcasting football when any possible return on that investment is realised?

The only thing that will grow the TV rights will be the addition of new teams, regardless of where they are located, because 2 new teams equals more TV inventory at roughly the same average viewers as the existing 9 games does, even if it drops the average a bit.

Replacing existing teams with new teams or merging existing teams to create new teams is about the worst idea possible, as that’s really the only thing that would turn off existing supporters en masse. Losing the 50-100k combined or so who would watch/rock up to a South/Fitzroy game in 81/96 is a lot different to losing a large portion of the 800k combined TV/attendance average that Melbourne or the Bulldogs drew in 2022.


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[Coolangatta]

Please explain how a “new market” helps grow the TV rights? Sydney couldn’t crack 60k in a grand final season after 40 years in the largest media market in the country. What untapped market exists that a TV or Streaming company is going to be paying a premium for to help with development, with absolutely zero certainty they will even be broadcasting football when any possible return on that investment is realised?

The only thing that will grow the TV rights will be the addition of new teams, regardless of where they are located, because 2 new teams equals more TV inventory at roughly the same average viewers as the existing 9 games does, even if it drops the average a bit.

Replacing existing teams with new teams or merging existing teams to create new teams is about the worst idea possible, as that’s really the only thing that would turn off existing supporters en masse. Losing the 50-100k combined or so who would watch/rock up to a South/Fitzroy game in 81/96 is a lot different to losing a large portion of the 800k combined TV/attendance average that Melbourne or the Bulldogs drew in 2022.


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I'm not so sure. I'd love to know how many people per capita in the Gold Coast and Western Sydney are watching footy and taking up interest in footy now compared to before they had teams. Location matters. Yes, you could possibly have new TV viewers in Albury/Wodonga but as many as Gold Coast? I don't think so. An increase in average viewers is more likely to happen in bigger markets that don't have teams than existing ones or ones with considerable overlap. Those extra viewers surely increase the value.

Now, I'd rather not see anyone fold, merge, or relocate, but I do share concerns about quality if we keep expanding teams. Also, how the hell are you supposed to fixture a season that has more than 24 teams without conferences which no one wants? I don't want new markets to miss out because of relic Victorian teams, but I understand what you're saying and if I were a betting man I don't think the AFL has a limit on how many teams they can have as long as it's financially viable and doesn't mess up the talent pool. If they do keep adding teams, I think it'll be in 20-25 year cycles.

As is, the AFL would be silly not to look at all of these as potential expansion options in the future:

• Newcastle/Hunter
• Canberra
• Sunshine Coast
• Wollongong/Illawarra
• Northern Territory
• North Queensland
• South-West WA
• New Zealand
• 3rd Adelaide team

That's 28 teams. If they were to all become a worthwhile investment, why should any of them miss out? Because 27 rounds is too many. Yes, it is, so that leaves you with three options:

1. Don't ever expand to that many teams.
2. Cull a few Victorian teams (not saying they should do this but if they think some of these options are viable and are concerned about competition size, don't be surprised if it happens).
3. Expand to 28 teams, possibly beyond, and split the competition into two conferences that rotate teams around.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I have a better suggestion. Get rid of north melbourne and western bulldogs. Problem solved

 

[Outtatym]

I have a better suggestion. Get rid of north melbourne and western bulldogs. Problem solved

What is 'the problem' exactly?

 

[seasonedsainter]

I think the time is right for the AFL to scrap all 10 existing Vic clubs and create 3-4 mega franchised Vic clubs. The existing Vic clubs are a massive drain on the system - several only survive by selling home games (Haw, NM, Rich and Melb). Cricket benefited enormously from abolishing the state T20 teams and franchising, and I think the AFL could benefit in the same way.

I think the following works:

• a Central/North Melbourne team.
• a South/East Melbourne team.
• a West Melbourne team

Maybe split Central and North to make four Vic teams?

I think the time is right for you to stop posting.

 

[eastfreo75]

Victoria has twice the population of wa and sa combined. So shouldnt it have twice the clubs. 4*2 = 8.

Maths isn't your strong point.

Victorian population 6.6m, WA 2.8m and SA 1.8m

 

[eastfreo75]

So besides the bottom two clubs...

Half of the bottom 6 is still interstate...

North and the Dogs are debt free. The Saints are fast on their way to being debt free as well. Why should we dump 100k+ supporters completely for what sake...?

I don't get these arguments...

Thanks to hand outs by the AFL.

 

[Blackas87]

Victorian clubs had 8 of the top 10 membership bases for 2022, the league would have to raise the salary cap so these clubs could all the money they generate.

 

[eastfreo75]

Rename them West Horsham, I reckon.

West Coast and Fremantle to merge and be called Greater Western Kaniva.

Rather eat poo, with a red hot poker in the eyes, and cattle prod on the old fellow.

 

[TheBigHorne]

Thanks to hand outs by the AFL.

Brisbane, GWS and Gold Coast also receive massive handouts by the AFL that are either equal to or greater than the small Melbourne teams.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I have a better suggestion. Get rid of north melbourne and western bulldogs. Problem solved

Didnt Oakley try to do that already?

 

[LoungeLizard]

I think the OP is right, it's time to scrap all Vic clubs, send them all back to the state league.

 

[Dazb86]

The Dogs are now bulletproof sorry guys.

Should have killed us off in the 90's

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Victorian clubs had 8 of the top 10 membership bases for 2022, the league would have to raise the salary cap so these clubs could all the money they generate.

What's more relevant are the clubs with the lowest membership bases...

Imo, the AFL ideally would return to a 16 team competition, with a proper home & away.

Proper reserves competition & bigger squads.

 

[eastfreo75]

Brisbane, GWS and Gold Coast also receive massive handouts by the AFL that are either equal to or greater than the small Melbourne teams.

I expect clubs with over 100 years of history to support themselves.

 

[My_Username]

Rather eat poo, with a red hot poker in the eyes, and cattle prod on the old fellow.

So a regular Friday night in Perth then...

 

[eastfreo75]

So a regular Friday night in Perth then...

Main reason I moved to Melbourne.

My old fellow couldn't take it anymore.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

What is 'the problem' exactly?

Too many welfare teams cant pay their own way.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Those are just estimates.

Also yes they are old, they are figures for the 2021 season.

Oh so it includes the prizemoney we got for winning the flag. This year Melbourne and Sydney will receive the same distribution (as will Port and the Bulldogs). As much as you might wish it to happen we are going nowhere and neither are any other Vic clubs.

 

[My_Username]

Too many welfare teams cant pay their own way.

and we need to balance out the variables such as ground deals, AFL's revenue slice from club operations and club situations (growth markets?) etc. before we can determine which they are.

 

[Blackhawk42]

What is 'the problem' exactly?

Amazing that he landed on the Bulldogs before St.Kilda as well.