Top 15 players 07 - 09 Drafts

[Barnzy]

Hill is the better player at this point in time might change in the future (imo it won't) but at this stage he has Cotchin well and truly covered

No he isn't and no he doesn't.

Gets more of the ball

Before you go stating things as fact you might want to look it up first. Hill averages 17.4 touches, Cotchin 19.5. Hill doesn't "get more of the ball".

uses the ball better than Cotchin.

I agree that he has higher hurt factor because of his penetration in his kicking, Cotchin is still an elite kick and decision maker.

Because Cotchin has had a bad run with injuries and has only just had his first full preseason, Hill has actually played more games than him despite being in the system for a year less. They're different players too. Hill is an outside, running player skirting the packs looking for the handball receive. Cotchin is inside the packs, dodging and weaving and scooping it out, dominating the contested ball and clearances (Was in the top 20 in the AFL on average per game for both IIRC).

While I rate Hill highly I obviously rate him behind Cotchin. Will be interesting to see how their careers pan out.

 

[Azzleberry]

I was highlighting the fact he ran around Cotchin and slotted a goal from 40. The rest of the video wasn't the point. If i wanted to pick a game where Freo dominated Richmond i would have used the game earlier in the year. Not sure Cotchin even played in that game.

If i wanted a highlight reel for Hill, i would have highlighted his game against Brisbane last year.

Hitting the post after roving a pack and missing a set shot are hardly low lights. From a kid in his 2nd year the fact he nearly dragged us back into that game is exceptional. If you look at the set shot, he was blowing so hard from working himself into that position his set shot suffered as a result.

You use stats to state Cotchin is better than Hill which is absolutely ridiculous. Stats are relatively useless. Then you also state Hill has limited upside which is even crazier.

If you look through this thread Hill is commonly included in the top 15 youngsters. Thats from all fans from all different teams. Not many people have included a top 15 without him.

So its not just Freo fans getting excited about him. If you don't rate him you haven't seen him enough.

To state any player under 25 has reached their peak is stupid. To use upside to make a case for Cotchin being a better player than Hill in the long term is strange to say the least.

Geez, I hope you were pissed when you wrote this!!
Firstly, the player Hill runs around is Deledio (not Cotchin)
Secondly, nowhere have I stated statistics or used potential improvement as a rating indicator

I stated in my previous post that I rated Hill and just thought the Freo supporters should calm down a wee tad.. Judging by this response, I think that was fair enough

 

[rgauci]

Cotchin has got Hill covered in every stat bar goals, I know it's not always an indicator, but flashy goals at pace seem to gain more recognition. Hills been good but he can't improve much more, he does what he does well, Cotchin can improve a shit load, and recognising that after 3 years is a reason to pick Cotchin at number 1. I'm not biased either.............much.

I thought Azzleberry posted the above.

Just realised Azzleberry only replied to my video post and didn't make this first outlandish post.

You can see this guy is arguing that Cotchin > Hill due to stats and potential for improvement.

 

[jonoman89]

A few points:

- Sidebottom is an absolute jet, and well in the top 5. But to say he's the best out of 3 drafts is way too much. Pies supporters have too often rated their kids way higher than other teams purely because of a premiership medallion...

- Cotchin has shown nowhere near enough in his very limited game total to suggest he's worthy of top 10 status. He has enormous promise, but that's it.

- Kreuzer is an absolute gun, and to have him outside the top 3 is a damning assessment of your footy knowledge.

- Where the hell is Barlow? Easily top 5.

 

[Patch Adams]

I'll say it once more, Nathan Grima.. any list without him is wrong

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

get over it, some people don't rate him

and it's pretty easy to see why

 

[smiddaz123]

- Kreuzer is an absolute gun, and to have him outside the top 3 is a damning assessment of your footy knowledge.

Unknown how he'll come back from his knee at the moment. If he comes back fine, I agree.

 

[nikolasmia]

A few points:

- Sidebottom is an absolute jet, and well in the top 5. But to say he's the best out of 3 drafts is way too much. Pies supporters have too often rated their kids way higher than other teams purely because of a premiership medallion...

- Cotchin has shown nowhere near enough in his very limited game total to suggest he's worthy of top 10 status. He has enormous promise, but that's it.

- Kreuzer is an absolute gun, and to have him outside the top 3 is a damning assessment of your footy knowledge.

- Where the hell is Barlow? Easily top 5.

A knee reco for a 20 YR old ruckman means Kruezer doesnt make the top 20 IMHO. Too many question marks. Is he good enough to make it as a power forward, I have my doubts

 

[BigFella82]

Before you go stating things as fact you might want to look it up first. Hill averages 17.4 touches, Cotchin 19.5. Hill doesn't "get more of the ball".

Yeah your right. I was wrong on that one. I still stand by everything else I posted though. You don't agree fair enough, each to their own.
On Cotchins disposal it's not elite yet, in 2010 he had around 62 DE%. It will get better no doubt but it's not even close to elite.

 

[Barnzy]

Yeah your right. I was wrong on that one. I still stand by everything else I posted though. You don't agree fair enough, each to their own.
On Cotchins disposal it's not elite yet, in 2010 he had around 62 DE%. It will get better no doubt but it's not even close to elite.

So? He's an inside mid under packs and under constant pressure. Most inside mids are lowish. DE % is a dumb stat. Doesn't take into account many variables. I've seen players with ordinary kicks from our team have better DE than some of our elite kicks. Means nothing. Cotchin is an elite decision maker and kick off both feet. Watch him more.

 

[Patch Adams]

get over it, some people don't rate him

and it's pretty easy to see why

haha, what reason is that..

 

[FishCreekBandit]

First off Nic Nat is no where near top 20 nor is he even the best ruckman taken in these drafts.

Cal Ward will fly up in peoples ratings having overcome OP. For mine number 1 has to be Harry Taylor but he was taken as a 21 year old. The best player out of these 3 drafts when its all done and dusted will be Kreuzer or Skully

 

[DivideandMultiply]

First off Nic Nat is no where near top 20 nor is he even the best ruckman taken in these drafts.

Cal Ward will fly up in peoples ratings having overcome OP. For mine number 1 has to be Harry Taylor but he was taken as a 21 year old. The best player out of these 3 drafts when its all done and dusted will be Kreuzer or Skully

What is a "Skully"?

I would suggest that in terms of rucking ability Nic Nat is the best from these drafts.

As far as statistical output "around the ground" goes, Kruezer has him covered but not by much. Then again Kruezer was unsusually AFL ready for a big man and was definitely one of the best performed before his injury.

As for who will be the best 3, impossible to tell.

Kruezer has a huge injury cloud and maybe not the same scope for physical development as others. Scully is a talented acumulator but may be pipped by others such as Hill or Cotchin, one of whom has great physical scope for improvement and some unbelievably damaging assets and the other who could be a class above if he continues to develop without further injury setbacks.

My sure bets at the moment would be:

Rioli
Sidebottom
Hannebery
Taylor
Grimes
Beams

All proven performers.

Players I would consider highly likely:

Kruezer (due to injury)
Scully
Ballantyne (does have an injury cloud though)
Martin
Hill
Pears
Hurley

Now these aren't necessarilly who I think will make up the top 15, but so far seem the most likely to be solid performers based on current output (no doubt I have missed a couple and Hurly's addition may be contentious).

Guys like Cotchin, Naitanui or Fyfe have all shown glimpses of brilliance but are not yet consistent performers or in Cotchin's case dispelled fears about lack of durability.

Who knows what will happen though, some of the AFL's best have been late bloomers and no doubt this year we will see a few surprise names from the last few drafts elevate themseleves to the status of potential stars.

 

[Silvagnis]

My sure bets at the moment would be:

Rioli
Sidebottom
Hannebery
Taylor
Grimes
Beams

All proven performers.

Who knows what will happen though, some of the AFL's best have been late bloomers and no doubt this year we will see a few surprise names from the last few drafts elevate themseleves to the status of potential stars.

Rich's ceiling mightn't be all that high, but he should be one of your sure bets. The players you named have been proven performers, but even Murphy had a quieter second year like Rich due to playing for a bottom side. Rich's left foot has more hurt than most of the players you named. His passes still cut through the air like a knife to break zones and hit the mark over distance.

Yarran will run down most of these players. We haven't seen him in the centre square, but he can play everywhere else to hurt sides with his legspeed, tackling, decision making and disposal. Built like a brick shithouse.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Rich's ceiling mightn't be all that high, but he should be one of your sure bets. The players you named have been proven performers, but even Murphy had a quieter second year like Rich due to playing for a bottom side. Rich's left foot has more hurt than most of the players you named. His passes still cut through the air like a knife to break zones and hit the mark over distance.

Yarran will run down most of these players. We haven't seen him in the centre square, but he can play everywhere else to hurt sides with his legspeed, tackling, decision making and disposal. Built like a brick shithouse.

Agreed on both.

Also why I said that I am sure I forgot some, though two big ommisions.

Would definitely put Rich in the top bracket.

As for Yarran I don't know (maybe in the awesomely talented but still needs time basket). I want him to succeed and he has all the tools, but it may be a slow build over this season before it shines through consistently.

One player though who looks primed to take the next step is Gartlett. He just seems hungry and may not have the pure talent of Yarran but at the moment seems to have found his feet a little quicker.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

haha, what reason is that..

suspect by foot, not even that good a stopper from the games i have seen of him

 

[E Shed]

First off Nic Nat is no where near top 20 nor is he even the best ruckman taken in these drafts.

Cal Ward will fly up in peoples ratings having overcome OP. For mine number 1 has to be Harry Taylor but he was taken as a 21 year old. The best player out of these 3 drafts when its all done and dusted will be Kreuzer or Skully

Ward was impressive yesterday in the scratchy. Looks a real likely type.

I wouldn't, however surprise me to see Nic Nat become the best pure tap ruck. Seems to have a real talent at it despite other perceived shortcomings as a pure footballer.

 

[Patch Adams]

suspect by foot, not even that good a stopper from the games i have seen of him

Grima had the highest Kicking efficiency at our club, and not once did somebody kick more than three on him...

EDIT: turns out actually he has the best Kicking efficiency in the whole AFL... Suspect by foot, what a joke, typical melbourne supporter

 

[Claude Balls]

Grima had the highest Kicking efficiency at our club, and not once did somebody kick more than three on him...

EDIT: turns out actually he has the best Kicking efficiency in the whole AFL... Suspect by foot, what a joke, typical melbourne supporter

Kicking efficiency stat means nothing. Non-rebounding defenders always top this list because they kick sideways and to un-checked teammates. I.e. they abolutely have to hit a target, or everyone will know about it. Their sample is comparatively small as well, perhaps 5-10 kicks for the match.

Compare this to a midfielder who has 15-20 kicks in a match, half of which are to contests in the forward half.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Grima had the highest Kicking efficiency at our club, and not once did somebody kick more than three on him...

EDIT: turns out actually he has the best Kicking efficiency in the whole AFL... Suspect by foot, what a joke, typical melbourne supporter

EDIT: what Claude Balls said

he knows he has an average kick so he doesn't try anything ambitious, which is sensible

he is primarily a stopper, and as i said i don't think he's that good at it

and that's not because of the whole melbourne vs north thing either

north's defence looks a whole lot better if they give aaron black an opportunity up forward, and play hansen at CHB

 

[WCE_phil]

Grima had the highest Kicking efficiency at our club, and not once did somebody kick more than three on him...

EDIT: turns out actually he has the best Kicking efficiency in the whole AFL... Suspect by foot, what a joke, typical melbourne supporter

Darren glass had the highest kicking and disposal efficiency at our club. I can also tell you he's one of the 3 worst kicks at the club and in the top 10 worst kicks in the afl.

 

[BrownPearHookers]

Hurley top 5.

 

[Chief Crow]

Taylor Walker is probably the best performed forward from all these dafts, so how is he not rated in many peoples top 15?

 

[Barnzy]

Taylor Walker is probably the best performed forward from all these dafts, so how is he not rated in many peoples top 15?

Yes, I rate him very highly.

Will have a very good year IMO. Then he can kick 50+ goals.

 

[Powerade 08]

Mids:
1. Hartlett/Martin
2. Trengove/Hill/Sidebottom
3. Scully/Hannebury/Dangerfield/Morabito, etc.

Hartlett is a freak... Buckey-esque. He and Martin are on a level above the rest.

People seem to have very differernt opinions on Trengove. Some say he'll be better than Scully, others don't rate him very highly at all.

Plays a lot like Bartel and he was taken at pick 2... I think everyone will be disappointed if he doesn't become a good player/