Top 15 players 07 - 09 Drafts

[Patch Adams]

Mate. Big game player.

You want big game players in your side.

Not blokes who fall off the pace in the important ones.

Let's just say.... Jack Trengrove for example was drafted by St Kilda instead of Melbourne and played in both grand finals... If Jack was to play horribly in those Grand Finals, then you could definitely make the case Steele is better than Trengrove and you would be correct... However to hold Sidebottoms Grand Final performance over youngsters who are yet to play in a final is rediculous

 

[ringo200]

Let's just say.... Jack Trengrove for example was drafted by St Kilda instead of Melbourne and played in both grand finals... If Jack was to play horribly in those Grand Finals, then you could definitely make the case Steele is better than Trengrove and you would be correct... However to hold Sidebottoms Grand Final performance over youngsters who are yet to play in a final is rediculous

That doesn't mean that you just ignore Sidebottom's performances in those games. He should be rated higher having performed in those games, it shouldn't be the be all and end all when comparing him to other players his age though.

 

[sTeeL]

Mate. Big game player.

You want big game players in your side.

Not blokes who fall off the pace in the important ones.

Like Leon "The Invisible Man" Davis?

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

This thread needs more Beams.

Beams > Sidebottom/Rich/Pears

I understand you can pick Sidebottom and Pears ahead of him on potential but i don't understand the Rich call. Beams has been a better player thus far and they both came into the league as big big boys who were physically ready, if anything Rich was more physically ready. Therefore i don't understand the logic that Rich will "flower more." Apart from his kicking, I think Rich is pretty on dimensional, I reckon Rockliff will be a better player to be honest.

I think Beams is already better than Rich and has more scope for improvement over a player who came into the league as "the best young player in the game", won the rising star and seems to have stagnated since. They were both playing against men as kids but Rich was playing against better footballers in SA than Beams was in QL. Mind you, Rich is a very good player, Beams is just better.


Also, to have Barlow out of this list is ridiculous. He was Top 10 in the league before his injury. Even if these 15 players become the best 15 players in the comp you still can't fit 15 into 10. Insane call to leave out Barlow, the guy is elite.

 

[NYJetsfor2029]

Rich will always be a better player than beams due to his better sense of the play and his lethal boot. There are plenty of players in the league with a long penetrating kick that can't use it like Rich can because they don't have his footy smarts. I dont think Beams has the growth in him to match this.



.....plus beams has all that hideous crap down his arm

Although after all that i think the 08 draft will have about 10 of the 15 best players from these drafts, including both Rich and Beams

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Lol.

Finals footy is where it matters most, you must be mentally strong to perform well in finals game, finals footy is at a different level.

Being a good finals player means everything.

Tony Evans is a WCE legend, because he played his best footy in finals, particularly grand finals.

Steele Sidebottom has shown this as well from junior footy to senior AFL footy, thats the ability to step up when it counts most.

Finals football is important, but it gets way too highly rated.

Ted Hopkins also played his best football in finals, and it was pretty much the only good football he played.

For instance Matthew Richardson might have been the best finals player of all time but we'll never know because of poor caliber of the teams he played in, so it is completely unfair to use another players finals achievements in comparison.

Ted Hopkins or Richo, I know who's career I'd rather have. It an extreme but I'd take overall consistency over a slight performance boost come finals.

 

[The Bomb]

Finals football is important, but it gets way too highly rated.

Ted Hopkins also played his best football in finals, and it was pretty much the only good football he played.

For instance Matthew Richardson might have been the best finals player of all time but we'll never know because of poor caliber of the teams he played in, so it is completely unfair to use another players finals achievements in comparison.

Ted Hopkins or Richo, I know who's career I'd rather have. It an extreme but I'd take overall consistency over a slight performance boost come finals.

This hit the nail on the head.

 

[Sublime]

There's no way Barlow wouldn't be in the top 10 IMHO. I'm sure he'd be smashing all of those guys for BL votes, and IMHO that's a very fair representation of the (huge) impact he had.

How many people think Cotchin will get that good; let alone surpass him??

BL votes?

Broken Leg votes is a bit insensitive don't you think mate?

I think the OP did a pretty decent job, its very hard to rank players especially when some have had 3 years in the system while some only 1.

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

This thread needs more Beams.

Beams > Sidebottom/Rich/Pears

I understand you can pick Sidebottom and Pears ahead of him on potential but i don't understand the Rich call. Beams has been a better player thus far and they both came into the league as big big boys who were physically ready, if anything Rich was more physically ready. Therefore i don't understand the logic that Rich will "flower more." Apart from his kicking, I think Rich is pretty on dimensional, I reckon Rockliff will be a better player to be honest.

I think Beams is already better than Rich and has more scope for improvement over a player who came into the league as "the best young player in the game", won the rising star and seems to have stagnated since. They were both playing against men as kids but Rich was playing against better footballers in SA than Beams was in QL. Mind you, Rich is a very good player, Beams is just better.

Also, to have Barlow out of this list is ridiculous. He was Top 10 in the league before his injury. Even if these 15 players become the best 15 players in the comp you still can't fit 15 into 10. Insane call to leave out Barlow, the guy is elite.

In hindsight, I may have placed Pears a little high, although if he can put his injuries behind him I believe he will be one of the best defenders in the league.

Also, in hindsight I was harsh on Barlow. He deserves to be right up there. I, like many others, had fallen for the 'all top draftees with big hype around them will become superstars'. But really, if you look at Sidebottom, Scully, Trengove, Rich, Beams, Martin, Cotchin, Dangerfield, Hannebery etc, probably only 2 or 3 of these will become genuine stars, with others good, solid, or disappointments.

Also, I wanted Essendon to draft Rockliff, shattered they didn't.

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

top 15 players i would pick to have in my team from these drafts. (best players im trying to ignore positional needs)

1. Martin - rate best young mid in the comp (excluding swallow damn he's good)
2. Scully - rate great young mid
3. Hill - so much to improve on still. thats whats scary coz he's already pretty good. similiar to nic nat in this regard.
4. Trengrove - a little vanilla for my liking but a very promising prospect
5. Cotchin - injury has held him back otherwise would be a proven gun already great pace and disposal
6. Rioli - has already proven himself to be very damaging but an occasionally inconsistant player
7. Dangerfield - reminds me a bit of ricciuito
8. Hurley - great kpp potential already shown a bit.
9. Morabito - injury is bad but still very promising if he recovers fully.
10. Taylor - proven kpb. only reason he aint higher is he has already fulfilled his potential and kpb's are not as important as mids or forwards to a team
11. Rich - good player may not have much more potential though
12. Watts - really has shown little at afl but does have some pretty serious talent
13. Kreuzer - i have never rated him particuliarly high but is undoubtebly a very good young ruck. The knee could be a bit of a concern though depending how well he recovers.

With Naitanui and Shuey to round out the 15. i didnt rank these 2 due to possible bias but i would have them both in the top ten. To all the shuey haters get over it i rate him more than nic nat you dont just coz he hasnt been on the park and you havent seen him. You may see what all us eagles supporters see eventually. all he needs to do is get on the park and his class will be evident.
And to all you collingwood supporters im sorry i just dont rate sidebottom and beams they are not that great and will not be that great in my oppinion. very good maybe but these are players who are worthy of top 5 picks only and it is just opinion and there are many unlucky players in lists like this cunnington, fyfe, jetta, rohan, hanneberry blah blah blah list goes on.

People seem to have very differernt opinions on Trengove. Some say he'll be better than Scully, others don't rate him very highly at all. Can't wait to see how he turns out.

Would it be fair to say he was picked over Martin due to concerns about Martin's character/attitude?

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

Hurley to high @ Op

Maybe, maybe not. We will see. His best has been very exciting, as good or better than any other player in this thread. He just needs to produce this regularly, whether this happens or not we will see. I am confident however.

Many say Hurley is a natural backman, and should play there. I call bull****, because as a forward he could become one of the best players in the league IMO. As a backman, he could become very important, but I can't see him become as influential and dominant there. IMO he could be the best of this group through to 15th best, but regardless the boy will be a very good contributor as worst.

 

[Patron]

People seem to have very differernt opinions on Trengove. Some say he'll be better than Scully, others don't rate him very highly at all. Can't wait to see how he turns out.

Would it be fair to say he was picked over Martin due to concerns about Martin's character/attitude?

Scully will be better way more x factor. Trengrove was picked ahead of martin because he was the better performed junior. He'll be a very good solid player but is too vanilla for my liking. Will never tear a team apart like scully will. No X. reminds me a lot of a Gibbs or a murphy type. Will be good will rack up possesions be very solid but for some reason will never make star status.

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

He just doesn't have it mate. It is glaringly obvious.

EDIT: Trengove will be interesting, but this guy will be fascinating - I am not sure whether there has been a player that has caused such division in terms of expectation. Some saying he'll be the best, others saying he's a dud. My opinion is he will make it, but won't be a Riewoldt/Pavlich level, but rather somewhere between J.Westhoff and C.Mooney level. Again, just a prediction. Only time will tell.

I admit this man has been discussed too much!

 

[Greggy]

Cotchin has got Hill covered in every stat bar goals, I know it's not always an indicator, but flashy goals at pace seem to gain more recognition. Hills been good but he can't improve much more, he does what he does well, Cotchin can improve a shit load, and recognising that after 3 years is a reason to pick Cotchin at number 1. I'm not biased either.............much.

 

[Davey36]

How everyone on this forum doesn't have Grimes in their top 15 is beyond me!

 

[Patron]

How everyone on this forum doesn't have Grimes in their top 15 is beyond me!

Probably due to his lack of X. Just a very good solid player.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Probably due to his lack of X. Just a very good solid player.

couldn't disagree more. Grimes has plenty of "x factor", and IMHO will be one of the leagues best midfielders in a few years time. Clean & skillful ball winner, just a star in waiting.

One of my fav non-Essendon players in fact. Love the Grimey!

 

[Spluff]

People seem to have very differernt opinions on Trengove. Some say he'll be better than Scully, others don't rate him very highly at all. Can't wait to see how he turns out.

Would it be fair to say he was picked over Martin due to concerns about Martin's character/attitude?

Martin was just a really late developer. He wasn't in very high pick calculations until the end of the season, and even then Trengove was playing better I would have said, considering his SANFL performances, but Martin was improving at a rapid rate. Martin's main ability - his freakish strength - was probably also very hard to gauge watching him play against other u18s from the stands. It wasn't until he got into a system with seasoned AFL players and started pushing them around that it became obvious, because many players who can bust open packs in the u18s just don't have the strength to do it to AFL players.

Trengove was probably the best performed player of the whole year and could have easily gone at #1, especially to an interstate club. His carnival was superior to Scully's (though Scully was limited in the role that he had to play) and he has a much more rounded game, with good to very good overhead marking and better kicking - not to mention very very strong senior performances.

 

[Hangover]

From the 2007 - 2009 drafts, who will become the best 15 players, in order. I have listed players who have done fairly well, from national, pre-seasons and rookie drafts. I have left out the recent draft as we haven't seen them yet. Very very hard. The hardest one for me was Watts, I find him impossible to judgle, so I left him out, not saying he is not in the 15, I just haven't seen enough yet.

My attempt:
1. S. Hill
2. M Kreuzer
3. M. Hurley
4. D. Martin
5 S. Sidebottom
6. C. Rioli
7. T. Cotchin
8. N. Natanui
9. T. Pears
10. P. Dangerfield
11. D. Rich
12. J. Ziebell
13. H. Taylor
14. T. Scully
15. J. Trengove (Dees)
Apologies: Morabito, Fyfe, Bastinac, Barlow, Grant, Hannebery.

2009 Draft
Scully
Trengove (Dees)
Martin
Morabito
Cunnington
Rohan
Sheppard
Butcher
Moore
Melksham
Gysberts
Lucas
Talia
Jetta
Bastinac
Fyfe
Stratton
Colyer
M.Barlow

2008 Draft
Watts
Natanui
Hill
Hartlett
Hurley
Yarran
Rich
Vickery
Ziebell
Davis
Sidebottom
Johnstone
Cordy
Shoenmakers
Ballantyne
Trengove (Port)
Shuey
Swift
Zaharakis
Suban
Beams
Hannebery
J. Garlett

2007 Draft
Kreuzer
Cotchin
Masten
Morton
Grant
Myers
Palmer
Henderson
McEvoy
Dangerfield
Vespremi
Rioli
Ebert
Grimes
H.Taylor
C.Ward
Pears
Hooker

Theres a few out of the OP's list that i wouldnt have there on exposed form. Hurley maybe but i would have H.Taylor, Hannebery, and Barlow ahead of him Nic Nat and Pears.

 

[rgauci]

Cotchin has got Hill covered in every stat bar goals, I know it's not always an indicator, but flashy goals at pace seem to gain more recognition. Hills been good but he can't improve much more, he does what he does well, Cotchin can improve a shit load, and recognising that after 3 years is a reason to pick Cotchin at number 1. I'm not biased either.............much.

I nearly choked. If it wasn't for the last sentence i would think you were serious. I love this bit.

'Hill can't improve much'

Yeah i mean the skinny kid has got limited upside. Shit he must be nearly 21 already. Definitely the end of the road for him. 1-2 seasons from retirement.

Stats are just that, Stats. I'd take 15 Hill possessions over 25 from 95% of the league.

In saying that I like Cotchin. He'd defintely be in my first 15 picks out of those under 23. He's good in traffic and has a bit of the Ablett hunch.

You might have forgotten what Hill is capable of;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3hbLEBtOyI

3 mins 50 seconds. You might go a funny shade of purple when you realise who he side steps.

 

[Azzleberry]

I nearly choked. If it wasn't for the last sentence i would think you were serious. I love this bit.

'Hill can't improve much'

Yeah i mean the skinny kid has got limited upside. Shit he must be nearly 21 already. Definitely the end of the road for him. 1-2 seasons from retirement.

Stats are just that, Stats. I'd take 15 Hill possessions over 25 from 95% of the league.

In saying that I like Cotchin. He'd defintely be in my first 15 picks out of those under 23. He's good in traffic and has a bit of the Ablett hunch.

You might have forgotten what Hill is capable of;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3hbLEBtOyI

3 mins 50 seconds. You might go a funny shade of purple when you realise who he side steps.

Quoted for the Lulz... What Hill is capable of eh? You mean like @2.02 when he runs too far and the ball gets smothered? Or 3.20 when he picks ball up in the pocket and trys to do a fancy snap and hits the post? or at 4.20 when he shanks a set shot from 40m out straight in front... The only times he featured in the "Highlights" apart from the 3.50. F*** Me, the highlights make Kepler Bradley look like a decent player. Oh, by the way, good game you picked! Not so good for the dockers though eh?

Back on topic, Hill is an exciting player but I think Freo fans need to calm themselves down over him....And maybe pick better highlight packages in future...

 

[folester41]

1. hill
2. cotchin
3. trengove
4. rioli
5. hurley
6. martin
7. grimes
8. scully
9. kreuzer
10. hannebery
11. fyfe
12. sidebottom
13. melksham
14. dangerfield
15. taylor

 

[Patron]

I nearly choked. If it wasn't for the last sentence i would think you were serious. I love this bit.

'Hill can't improve much'

Yeah i mean the skinny kid has got limited upside. Shit he must be nearly 21 already. Definitely the end of the road for him. 1-2 seasons from retirement.

Stats are just that, Stats. I'd take 15 Hill possessions over 25 from 95% of the league.

In saying that I like Cotchin. He'd defintely be in my first 15 picks out of those under 23. He's good in traffic and has a bit of the Ablett hunch.

You might have forgotten what Hill is capable of;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3hbLEBtOyI

3 mins 50 seconds. You might go a funny shade of purple when you realise who he side steps.

He can't. And neither can Nic Nat. Both have very little potential, upside and scope for improvement.

 

[rgauci]

Quoted for the Lulz... What Hill is capable of eh? You mean like @2.02 when he runs too far and the ball gets smothered? Or 3.20 when he picks ball up in the pocket and trys to do a fancy snap and hits the post? or at 4.20 when he shanks a set shot from 40m out straight in front... The only times he featured in the "Highlights" apart from the 3.50. F*** Me, the highlights make Kepler Bradley look like a decent player. Oh, by the way, good game you picked! Not so good for the dockers though eh?

Back on topic, Hill is an exciting player but I think Freo fans need to calm themselves down over him....And maybe pick better highlight packages in future...

I was highlighting the fact he ran around Cotchin and slotted a goal from 40. The rest of the video wasn't the point. If i wanted to pick a game where Freo dominated Richmond i would have used the game earlier in the year. Not sure Cotchin even played in that game.

If i wanted a highlight reel for Hill, i would have highlighted his game against Brisbane last year.

Hitting the post after roving a pack and missing a set shot are hardly low lights. From a kid in his 2nd year the fact he nearly dragged us back into that game is exceptional. If you look at the set shot, he was blowing so hard from working himself into that position his set shot suffered as a result.

You use stats to state Cotchin is better than Hill which is absolutely ridiculous. Stats are relatively useless. Then you also state Hill has limited upside which is even crazier.

If you look through this thread Hill is commonly included in the top 15 youngsters. Thats from all fans from all different teams. Not many people have included a top 15 without him.

So its not just Freo fans getting excited about him. If you don't rate him you haven't seen him enough.

To state any player under 25 has reached their peak is stupid. To use upside to make a case for Cotchin being a better player than Hill in the long term is strange to say the least.

 

[BigFella82]

Quoted for the Lulz... What Hill is capable of eh? You mean like @2.02 when he runs too far and the ball gets smothered? Or 3.20 when he picks ball up in the pocket and trys to do a fancy snap and hits the post? or at 4.20 when he shanks a set shot from 40m out straight in front... The only times he featured in the "Highlights" apart from the 3.50. F*** Me, the highlights make Kepler Bradley look like a decent player. Oh, by the way, good game you picked! Not so good for the dockers though eh?

Back on topic, Hill is an exciting player but I think Freo fans need to calm themselves down over him....And maybe pick better highlight packages in future...

Much like Richmond fans need to calm down about Cotchin. Hill is the better player at this point in time, might change in the future (imo it won't) but at this stage he has Cotchin well and truly covered. Gets more of the ball, contributes more goals and uses the ball better than Cotchin. Hill has just as much scope for improvement as Cotchin. To suggest otherwise is utter crap.