Top 15 players 07 - 09 Drafts

[eDPS]

I'm not going to rank them all, but I'd definitley have Cotchin ahead of Martin.

Also Pears doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the list.

Richmond would kill for pears, was unfortunate last year with injury but will show why he came close to rising star.

 

[Neville Bartos]

Gotta love the "scope for improvement" tag.

Just a cop out really, considering Sidebottom is still a teenager.

Good point. This probably explains why Mark McGough was a much better footballer than Dean Cox back in 2002.

And why did you guys pick Ben Reid? He was a terrible footballer in his first 2 years?

 

[TownleyTime]

Ben Reid wasn't in the best 10 performed kids in his draft year. But 3 or 4 years down the track, you can see exactly why many thought he'd be a good pick at that sort of range.

Sorry, but that is incorrect. Reid was a dominant player at the Bushrangers at CHB in his draft year. He was quite up there as performances at that stage go.

 

[TownleyTime]

And why did you guys pick Ben Reid? He was a terrible footballer in his first 2 years?

I think "terrible" is quite wrong. He came in as replacement when we were decimated by injuries, his first game, which was against Hawthorn, was an impressive debut by Reid.

Was competing as a forward against Rocca, Medhurst & Cloke. He dominated Jarrod Waite the next year, then broke his leg & missed the entire year. Terrible is troll worthy.

 

[Neville Bartos]

I think "terrible" is quite wrong. He came in as replacement when we were decimated by injuries, his first game, which was against Hawthorn, was an impressive debut by Reid.

Was competing as a forward against Rocca, Medhurst & Cloke. He dominated Jarrod Waite the next year, then broke his leg & missed the entire year. Terrible is troll worthy.

Yeah but let's face it, he was no Sidebottom.

 

[HFF]

Good point. This probably explains why Mark McGough was a much better footballer than Dean Cox back in 2002.

And why did you guys pick Ben Reid? He was a terrible footballer in his first 2 years?

I understand what you are trying to say somewhat but your logic is flawed.

Using your "scope for improvement" tag, then it is fair to expect Shae McNamara to overtake somebody like Steele Sidebottom considering how rapid his progress and improvement has been and how much larger his scope to improve is.

Again, Sidebottom is still a teenager.

 

[TownleyTime]

Yeah but let's face it, he was no Sidebottom.

Of course. A smaller player will adapt to the nature of AFL quicker than a KPP, who was undersized to combat the CHF & CHB's of the league.

It doesn't mean though b/c Sidebottom adapted quicker to the scene that he has less scope for growth than Reid. Sidebottom still has the scope/ability to become a prime midfielder (i.e. Pendlebury class) where week in week out, he'll get 30 disposals instead of being a flanker.

 

[Nightwolf]

Quite laughable seeing people explain why certain players are ranked ahead of Rioli.

Blind freddie can see he is a clear number 1 for output at this point.

 

[Slattery_20]

Sorry, but that is incorrect. Reid was a dominant player at the Bushrangers at CHB in his draft year. He was quite up there as performances at that stage go.

Maybe. They only had 1 player drafted in his year tho, and he didn't make the AA U18 side; so I think I'm pretty comfortable with what I said.
I can't claim to know/remember absolutely everything. I onyl remember - and even that could be wrong - that Hansen, Tom Hawkins & the Browns were the big performers in the state champs, from the Vic talls.

 

[Slattery_20]

I understand what you are trying to say somewhat but your logic is flawed.

Using your "scope for improvement" tag, then it is fair to expect Shae McNamara to overtake somebody like Steele Sidebottom considering how rapid his progress and improvement has been and how much larger his scope to improve is.

That's exactly what he said was it???

Taking it to a complete extreme doesn't prove anything either way.

 

[TownleyTime]

Maybe. They only had 1 player drafted in his year tho, and he didn't make the AA U18 side; so I think I'm pretty comfortable with what I said.
I can't claim to know/remember absolutely everything. I onyl remember - and even that could be wrong - that Hansen, Tom Hawkins & the Browns were the big performers in the state champs, from the Vic talls.

Reid was 17 in his draft year, he was the youngest player taken in the 06' draft. I'm not even sure he played for Vic Country that year but he was a dominant player at the TAC Cup level.

 

[finn]

The fifteen I'd pick first are
1 - taylor
2 - rioli
3 - barlow
4 - hannebery
4 - hill
6 - martin
7 - davis
8 - stratton
9 - jurrah
10 -sidebottom
11 - grimes j
12 - dangerfield
13 - rich
14 - kreuzer
15 - walker

would like to have fitted in
trengove and beams (i wish he'd get off my goat) but 17 into 15 don't go

withBastinac, Sloane, Otten, Ward, Cotchin, Palmer, Redden (Lions), Ziebell, Hurley, Watts, Morabito, Naitanui, Scully, Hartlett, Cotchin, Mumford, Garlett J forming another pretty handy squad. All have good cases for being included but I've based mine on whom I'd pick if I had the first 15.

Incidentally townley, you're not claiming with your signature that blair is a better player than selwood, j are you?

 

[Slattery_20]

Reid was 17 in his draft year, he was the youngest player taken in the 06' draft. I'm not even sure he played for Vic Country that year but he was a dominant player at the TAC Cup level.

I'm sure one of the draft nerd types will know.

 

[Monkey King]

That's exactly what he said was it???

Taking it to a complete extreme doesn't prove anything either way.

Exactly. If you want to understand someone's logic, don't bend it all out of shape.

The Collingwood boys in this thread have gone a long way to showing why they've acquired this overrate your flag reputation.

 

[TownleyTime]

The Collingwood boys in this thread have gone a long way to showing why they've acquired this overrate your flag reputation.

How do you exactly overrate a flag reputation?

 

[Monkey King]

How do you exactly overrate a flag reputation?

Not really sure what you're asking here. Do you mean; how did you acquire this reputation; or are you unsure as to how a flag may result in supporters overrating their players? Or did you just misread the comment?

A brief review of your posting history will answer the first two questions anyway.

 

[HFF]

Not really sure what you're asking here. Do you mean; how did you acquire this reputation; or are you unsure as to how a flag may result in supporters overrating their players? Or did you just misread the comment?

A brief review of your posting history will answer the first two questions anyway.

Of course reputations are enhanced after a flag- particularly when a player performs and delivers on the big stage.

Players are always judged on their efforts on the big stage- see Leon Davis.

In this instance, Sidebottom's performances fantastic and equal to that of BOG.

 

[TownleyTime]

or are you unsure as to how a flag may result in supporters overrating their players?

So in your opinion, is Sidebottom overrated? Yay or Nay.

 

[KeilorUnder9s]

Trent Cotchin is so so overrated.

Totally because he doesn't even play for Carlton. Cotch is trash delist ASAP!

 

[Monkey King]

Of course reputations are enhanced after a flag- particularly when a player performs and delivers on the big stage.

Yes and it's fair enough, although Andrew Embley is still just Andrew Embley and Shaun Hart didn't suddenly become Micheal Voss. Most people temper this recognition with a broader reasoning; something Collingwood posters seem unable to do atm. Instead, they're simply derailing threads with their hero whack-off.

 

[Monkey King]

So in your opinion, is Sidebottom overrated? Yay or Nay.

By you ... Yay!

Undoubtedly so.

 

[TownleyTime]

By you ... Yay!

Undoubtedly so.

I didn't ask that. I asked if Sidebottom was overrated or not.

As for your examples.

Andrew Embley was 25 in 2006.
Shaun Hart was 23 in 2001.

Rather strange.

 

[Monkey King]

I didn't ask that. I asked if Sidebottom was overrated or not.

By others? Couldn't say for sure; but definitely by you and a few other Pies posters.

Not all Magpie fans are like it mind you; just those super-excited ones who've probably never seen a flag before.

As for your examples.

Andrew Embley was 25 in 2006.
Shaun Hart was 23 in 2001.

Rather strange.

Why? The post I was replying to was talking about finals performance recognition.

You seem to want to use Sidebottom's age to create some kind of niche where only Steele could possibly have achieved what he has. I suggest you move the other way and broaden your viewpoint, not narrow it.

 

[TownleyTime]

Why? The post I was replying to was talking about finals performance recognition.

It was also a snipe stating that 2 players that weren't at a respective upswing & age at their careers were never going to reach the level of 2 infinitely more talented players.

You seem to want to use Sidebottom's age to create some kind of niche where only Steele could possibly have achieved what he has

Can you tell me how many 19 year olds in the last 20 years have performed to such a level in a Grand Final. It's not that only Sidebottom had the ability to influence such a game at such an early age, you could probably count on less than 1 hand youngsters that have the composure & touch to influence such a game.

 

[Monkey King]

It was also a snipe stating that 2 players that weren't at a respective upswing & age at their careers were never going to reach the level of 2 infinitely more talented players.

Nope. I think you just missed the point. But anyway; so upswing is important now? IMO and many others, there are a few better performed young players with more upswing than Sidebottom; yet whenever this is pointed out, you revert to babbling on about Grand Finals.

Can you tell me how many 19 year olds in the last 20 years have performed to such a level in a Grand Final.

So it's true ... you are simply looking to create a niche.

Well, from the first GF there's probably a few, but I'll just head straight for the second GF and Mark Mercuri's 23 touches and 3 goals at 19yo in the 1993 GF.

Did it make Mercuri a better player than Kouta who didn't even make the cut; or Buckley who didn't play a final; or a host of other young players from the era? Of course it didn't.

History clearly shows that in the greater scheme of things, playing well in a Grand Final doesn't automatically make you a better player.