Top 15 players 07 - 09 Drafts

[TownleyTime]

are a few better performed young players with more upswing than Sidebottom

Who are these better performed youngsters? By performance, you can produce their respective stats.

Well, from the first GF there's probably a few, but I'll just head straight for the second GF and Mark Mercuri's 23 touches and 3 goals at 19yo in the 1993 GF.

Such as? Mercuri is a good example.

Did it make Mercuri a better player than Kouta who didn't even make the cut; or Buckley who didn't play a final; or a host of other young players from the era? Of course it didn't.

Mercuri & Kouta were borderline. As much as Carlton fans rave on about Kouta in 00', Mercuri in 99' had him pegged.

As for Buckley, I doubt any youngsters at present had his output in his first season. Is there a Kouta or a Buckley in the present youngsters?

History clearly shows that in the greater scheme of things, playing well in a Grand Final doesn't automatically make you a better player.

No one is saying that b/c Sidebottom played well in a GF, it automatically makes him a better player. It's a sum of what he has showed up to that & including that seperates him.

The GF was validation.

 

[Monkey King]

Who are these better performed youngsters? By performance, you can produce their respective stats.

Off the top of my head, 21 & Under - Martin, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Davis, Hurley, Pears, Rioli, Hill, Garlett. Younger guys like Fyfe, Scully and Trengove go okay too.

If you're interested in their stats, no one's stopping you from chasing them up.

Mercuri & Kouta were borderline. As much as Carlton fans rave on about Kouta in 00', Mercuri in 99' had him pegged.

Kouta was another class of player; not a good promotion of your talent meter.

It's a sum of what he has showed up to that & including that seperates him.

Ok then. What about not including that? Would you still think he's shown more than all the other young guys in the league?

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

Pears infront of Harry Taylor? I LOL'd.

Taylor in front to date, but I honestly think Pears has more talent and will become the better player, bias aside.

 

[the distributer]

Off the top of my head, 21 & Under - Martin, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Davis, Hurley, Pears, Rioli, Hill, Garlett. Younger guys like Fyfe, Scully and Trengove go okay too.

If you're interested in their stats, no one's stopping you from chasing them up.



Kouta was another class of player; not a good promotion of your talent meter.



Ok then. What about not including that? Would you still think he's shown more than all the other young guys in the league?

maybe you should just watch a few of sidebottoms games mate, pie fans arnt the only ones who rated him very highly prior to the finals, id say most if not all fans had him in the top 10 for the 08 draft (very very strong draft IMO), i rated him higher than beams prior to the finals and obviously his finals efforts enhanced my opinion of him.

I love how you whinge about pie fans overrating their own players but what opinion do you have of blues fans raving about yarran?, lets face it mate, if you guys had a decent recruiter and picked sidebottom instead of yarran sidebottom would be a hall of famer in your eyes right now.

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

Update:

I have done a tally to show what has been voted as the best 15. Players voted # 1 receive 15 points, # 2 get 14. # 3 get 13, through to # 15 which get 1 vote. I have only added the ones where people have chosen their full top 15. I left Luke Ball out because the in the opening post it says 'who will be the best player', Ball's not an up-and-comer. I'll update this if more come up, but currently this is BigFootys opinion:

1. Hill: 91
2. Rioli: 84
3. Kreuzer: 78
4. Sidebottom & Taylor: 59
6. Barlow: 52
7. Hurley: 50
8. Natanui: 48
9. Martin 47
10. Scully 34
11. Rich: 27
12. Dangerfield: 25
13. Hannebery: 24
14. Cotchin: 22
15. Watts & Trengove: 15

17. Morabito: 12
18. Ward: 11
19. Beams: 10
20. Davis: 9
21. Pears: 8
22. Hartlett: 6
23. Ziebell: 5
24. Fyfe: 5
25. Shuey: 3

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

Not much love for Ziebell. I think he might suprise a few, guys a gun.

 

[Monkey King]

id say most if not all fans had him in the top 10 for the 08 draft (very very strong draft IMO), i rated him higher than beams prior to the finals and obviously his finals efforts enhanced my opinion of him.

Personally I would have had Beams just ahead of him. I reckon Beams is a ripper. But seriously, how many times do posters have to satiate you guys with reiterations that we rate Sidebottom and think he's a great talent who performed impressively on the big stage? No one is bagging the kid; in fact he's well rated.

That some rate a handful of other youngsters more highly is perfectly alright. You guys are just going to have to deal with the fact that as much as you love your premiership heroes, there might be betters players out there.

As for Yarran, give examples please. You see, we're in a thread where Yarran's name should have been put forward by Blues posters plenty of times if this really is the case. But it just hasn't happened.

Perhaps you're getting confused with Carlton supporters response to claims Yarran is a spud; similar to you lame troll about "if you guys had a decent recruiter". But the D&T isn't the right board for that.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Off the top of my head, 21 & Under - Martin, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Davis, Hurley, Pears, Rioli, Hill, Garlett. Younger guys like Fyfe, Scully and Trengove go okay too.

If you're interested in their stats, no one's stopping you from chasing them up.



Kouta was another class of player; not a good promotion of your talent meter.



Ok then. What about not including that? Would you still think he's shown more than all the other young guys in the league?

forgot grimes

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

i don't buy this sidebottom > due to finals performance...

how many highly rated youngsters have had the opportunity to one, play in a final and two, play in a very good finals team???

the answer?

sidebottom ... and beams

 

[Bestbird]

i don't buy this sidebottom > due to finals performance...

how many highly rated youngsters have had the opportunity to one, play in a final and two, play in a very good finals team???

the answer?

sidebottom ... and beams

B Waters had 26 Possesions in the 2006 GF including a crucial mark late in the last quarter as another example

 

[coryne]

B Waters had 26 Possesions in the 2006 GF including a crucial mark late in the last quarter as another example

And he is only seen as a good, solid player ATM not a superstar despite having a good 2006 grand final ............

 

[Bestbird]

And he is only seen as a good, solid player ATM not a superstar despite having a good 2006 grand final ............

Sam Butler also had 30 possesions in the Semi that year

Unfortunatley both these players have had horrific injury runs since

The point is though is that in very good sides young players can look better than those in sides lower down the ladder, you also fund that in struggling teams those young players can be given greater tasks throughout a season

 

[TownleyTime]

The point is though is that in very good sides young players can look better than those in sides lower down the ladder, you also fund that in struggling teams those young players can be given greater tasks throughout a season

Butler has practically had a career ending injury post the 06' GF. He has rarely played in a struggling side as he has been injured/not even close to 100% fitness.

He's not the best example to use.

 

[Bestbird]

Butler has practically had a career ending injury post the 06' GF. He has rarely played in a struggling side as he has been injured/not even close to 100% fitness.

He's not the best example to use.

The example was more the fact that it is not uncommon for young players to play very well in finals.

 

[TownleyTime]

And he is only seen as a good, solid player ATM not a superstar despite having a good 2006 grand final ............

Like with Butler, not a great example.

WC's success in the 06' GF was all about it's midfield, Judd, Cousins, Embley & Kerr. I rate Waters but it's hard to judge a defender who had such a midfield protecting him.

Sidebottom had claims to being Collingwood's best midfielder on GF day. He led the GF in clearances & with Ball, he was the one who got the ball out of the middle. Like so many opposition fans try to tell us, Maxwell gets/got easy disposals in the backhalf, a bit like Waters did there.

 

[smiddaz123]

i don't buy this sidebottom > due to finals performance...

how many highly rated youngsters have had the opportunity to one, play in a final and two, play in a very good finals team???

the answer?

sidebottom ... and beams

Absolutely rubbish argument if you watch his game against Adelaide.

 

[yaco55]

Like with Butler, not a great example.

WC's success in the 06' GF was all about it's midfield, Judd, Cousins, Embley & Kerr. I rate Waters but it's hard to judge a defender who had such a midfield protecting him.

Sidebottom had claims to being Collingwood's best midfielder on GF day. He led the GF in clearances & with Ball, he was the one who got the ball out of the middle. Like so many opposition fans try to tell us, Maxwell gets/got easy disposals in the backhalf, a bit like Waters did there.

Where did Sidemottom finish in the B and F ?

 

[Hannabal]

Update:

I have done a tally to show what has been voted as the best 15. Players voted # 1 receive 15 points, # 2 get 14. # 3 get 13, through to # 15 which get 1 vote. I have only added the ones where people have chosen their full top 15. I left Luke Ball out because the in the opening post it says 'who will be the best player', Ball's not an up-and-comer. I'll update this if more come up, but currently this is BigFootys opinion:

1. Hill: 91
2. Rioli: 84
3. Kreuzer: 78
4. Sidebottom & Taylor: 59
6. Barlow: 52
7. Hurley: 50
8. Natanui: 48
9. Martin 47
10. Scully 34
11. Rich: 27
12. Dangerfield: 25
13. Hannebery: 24
14. Cotchin: 22
15. Watts & Trengove: 15

17. Morabito: 12
18. Ward: 11
19. Beams: 10
20. Davis: 9
21. Pears: 8
22. Hartlett: 6
23. Ziebell: 5
24. Fyfe: 5
25. Shuey: 3

It's still too early to do lists such as these as most footy followers have zero vision and are besotted by the here and now. You're asking them to predict the future when they can't see past their own nose.

Take Hannebery as an example. I like Hannebery as a footballer and watched his state games closely in 08. My nephew is one of his best mates and I have a natural bias towards Old Xavs, but anyone that thinks he'll end up a better footballer than Trengove and Cotchin have rocks in their heads. Trengove's first year was light years ahead of Hannebery's (yes, I know he was still at school) and he does every football skill better. He's more balanced, he's a better kick, a better mark, he's bigger, he's got as good an engine, he's as tough, and he makes as good/better decisions on a field.

Yet the prediction is that Hannebery will have the better career.

No wonder bookies make a fortune.

 

[MAAAATTDAAAAMON]

It's still too early to do lists such as these as most footy followers have zero vision and are besotted by the here and now. You're asking them to predict the future when they can't see past their own nose.

Take Hannebery as an example. I like Hannebery as a footballer and watched his state games closely in 08. My nephew is one of his best mates and I have a natural bias towards Old Xavs, but anyone that thinks he'll end up a better footballer than Trengove and Cotchin have rocks in their heads. Trengove's first year was light years ahead of Hannebery's (yes, I know he was still at school) and he does every football skill better. He's more balanced, he's a better kick, a better mark, he's bigger, he's got as good an engine, he's as tough, and he makes as good/better decisions on a field.

Yet the prediction is that Hannebery will have the better career.

No wonder bookies make a fortune.

Agreed that most of us have little idea on who will turn out better out of Player A and Player B, but I think its interesting if people place their top 15, and therefore making an overall Top 15, that we can look back on in a few years to see who surprises us. Most likely there will be somebody barely mentioned who turns out one of ther better players, while some picked to be one of the best players may turn out to be a dud.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Where did Sidemottom finish in the B and F ?

Eighth, with 41 votes. Swan won with 67.

 

[Andy_Mac]

1. J. Watts
2. S. Hill
3. M Kreuzer
4. T. Scully
5. D. Martin
6. M. Barlow
7. N Natanui
8. S. Sidebottom
9. C. Rioli
10. T. Cotchin
11. H. Taylor
12. M. Hurley
13. J Grimes
14. P. Dangerfield
15. D. Hannebery

Call it bias or call it blind faith but IMO Watts will still be the best player to come out of the recent drafts.

 

[richoatthedisco]

1. J. Watts
2. S. Hill
3. M Kreuzer
4. T. Scully
5. D. Martin
6. M. Barlow
7. N Natanui
8. S. Sidebottom
9. C. Rioli
10. T. Cotchin
11. H. Taylor
12. M. Hurley
13. J Grimes
14. P. Dangerfield
15. D. Hannebery

Call it bias or call it blind faith but IMO Watts will still be the best player to come out of the recent drafts.

It's one or both. Watts has ability, but he has played 18 games for 12 goals. At the exact same age Matthew Richardson had played 33 games for 87 goals. People argue that KPP take longer but the best ones shine almost immediately. Look at Brereton - five goals on debut - in a final - at 17. Longmire kicked 98 and won a Coleman at 19. Dermie, Royce Hart and Jon Brown were premiership CHFs as teenagers. Watts is a lovely kick who makes good decisions with ball in hand but he'll need more than that. A pack mark would be a good start.

Practically everyone is putting their own player at number one so far be it from me to buck the trend:

1. Cotchin
2. Rioli
3. Hill
4. Martin
5. Kreuzer
6. Trengove
7. Jurrah
8. Fyfe
9. Morabito
10. Hurley
11. Scully
12. Sidebottom
13. Hartlett
14. Dangerfield
15. Naitanui

But as has been said, we're all guessing. And realistically there will be a handful above the rest, then a blanket over 30 or more.

 

[WCE_phil]

Watts reminds me a lot of andrew mcdougall. He's faster with slightly better skills but to me he looks like a 6'4 midfielder trying to play as a KPF.

 

[Hawkinspired]

So much bias in this thread... Can someone please explain the hype associated with Cotchin?? From my perspective, Martin is a much more accomplished player. He has played exactly half the football of Cotchin, a year younger and far more valuable to Richmond.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Watts reminds me a lot of andrew mcdougall. He's faster with slightly better skills but to me he looks like a 6'4 midfielder trying to play as a KPF.

Yeah. We know he has a strong basketball background - I suspect as a guard - and I reckon his strength is when he has the ball "at the top of the key", if you like. He is a very good distributor but he will be judged on whether he can play the post.

So much bias in this thread... Can someone please explain the hype associated with Cotchin?? From my perspective, Martin is a much more accomplished player. He has played exactly half the football of Cotchin, a year younger and far more valuable to Richmond.

Am I biased as a Richmond supporter for rating Cotchin above Martin? In 30 years of watching the Tigers only Maurice Rioli has matched Cotchin's talent. He's been half-fit so far; when/if he gets right I believe he can be the best player in the league. It's his quickness of mind, surety of hands (he never fumbles), skills and footy brain. At the moment he's lacking the burst in the first five metres he had as a kid, as well as the fitness to run out games. When he gets those, look out.