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Do you think it's a bit hypocritical for you to pot Ziebell after complaining about people daring to criticise one of Melbourne's players?
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Top 15 players 07 - 09 Drafts
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Do you think it's a bit hypocritical for you to pot Ziebell after complaining about people daring to criticise one of Melbourne's players?
- May 6, 2007
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Bias (towards me) I know, but I still think this is the best list in this thread!
Think about it, will go through each player if you would like a reasoning why they are their, I will go through it.
Ask away?
The Bomb
Norm Smith Medallist
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Colyer or Howlett will be the ones who nobody rates now, and will think where the hell did they come from, they are the 2 most under rated players who have been drafted in 09, Colyer could well end up top 5 drafted players for 09. maybe I will be way off, just what I have seen Colyer best is better then most of these players every1 raves on about.
Patch Adams
Team Captain
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Any of these lists without Nathan Grima are wrong.....
did you all forget about him????
do you not have Foxtel????
nobody listed him....
did you all forget about him????
do you not have Foxtel????
nobody listed him....
Patch Adams
Team Captain
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No, fair point...
Had him in Super Coach to
EDIT: did say in the originial list, I would probably have forgot some players.
Yeah, he said it on radio after one of our matches earlier this year, think it was after the West Coast match.
On his other attributes, I know his repeat sprint was the same as Stephen Hill's, so it was pretty impressive, not to mention the fact that his 20m time was better than Hill's. His endurance is still a question mark, though, but luckily it isn't one of those abilities that you either have or haven't got, he can work on it over time and should become more than capable in that area.
He can also look slow on the field, and I think that's to do with the fact that he has been able to cruise through the juniors and dominate with little effort, and as such, he needs to come to terms with the pace of AFL football to a greater degree and realise that his intensity needs to be a lot higher than it was at times last season.
Like I said, he has everything required to succeed, he just needs to improve on some very improvable facets of his game and he should become a very good footballer.
I have no real problem with criticising players, I have a problem with a bottom-aged draftee who was horribly under-sized in his first couple of seasons copping it from all angles. He just didn't deserve all of the negative attention placed upon him, and Melbourne's handling of him in the first year didn't help him in that regard.
Moreover, it's quite clear to me that Watts has a number of elite attributes, but the same can't be said about Ziebell. His hardness is second-to-none, but aside from that, I don't really see anything that stands out to an excessive degree. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a very good player, but I'm not sure he'll reach the heights than many North supporters are expecting him to reach.
All of this is just my opinion, and you're free to either agree, disagree or feel indifferent about it.
As I said in my previous post regarding SC points, it is a midfielders game, thus why 28 mids averaged 100+ while only 1 ruckman, 4 Defenders (x2 of which were MPP playing midfiled aswell) and 5 Forwards (again x3 MPP) scored over 100 last year.........
IF you want to use SC points then standardise them against say the top 5 players in each position (maybe 3 for Ruckman considering they are a minor group of players) and then come back with a list
If it's a midfielder's game; and there's more midfielders who've done anything, why would you want to exclude a bigger chunk of them purely to include more rucks or tall forward etc - none of whom have done much???
SC, not AFL, is purely a midfielders game. As Essendon supporters will tell you, Hurley a KPP is more valuable than most midfielders recruited in this period, yet won't score ANYWHERE near as much in SC because he is a KPP.
Also the thread is about a players career, not their ability to rack up posessions in the first couple of years in the AFL. Most KPP/Ruckmen won't play much football during the beginning of their career, let alone score well in SC, let alone be able to compete with SC midfielders scores.
As I said, x6 more midfielders score +100 points/game last year than defenders, and half those defenders were MPP midfielders.
Harry Taylor was AA CHB last year, yet only scored 87.10 points/game. That would put him in at the 64th best scoring mids
. That puts the AA CHB behind great mids of the game such as Winderlich, Staker and Travis Johnson (you know, the guy who was just delisted from the Lions).Last year Hurley averaged 69.42 points (#84 for defenders), Kreuzer averaged 82.00 (#7 for Ruck and it would have put him in at equal #37 for defenders), and that includes his 6 point game where he did his knee early on (1st qtr iirc)
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
For those saying Hartlett in this thread - though I agree with your sentiments - looks like the poor bastard won't fulfil his talent
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gwood-in-round-1/story-e6frf9jf-1225993706965
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...gwood-in-round-1/story-e6frf9jf-1225993706965
- May 6, 2007
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The point I was making was that, SuperCoach points are actually quite a good guide on where players rank.
Of course they are weighted heavily towards midfielders, but then again, they are always in the game.
You look at the top 10 scorers of last year (Total Points):
Dane Swan 2,791
Brendon Goddard 2,735
Gary Ablett 2,727
Leigh Montagna 2,526
Daniel Cross 2,507
Joel Selwood 2,474
Luke Hodge 2,446
Scott Pendlebury 2,432
Nick Dal Santo 2,362
Probably wouldnt argue with that.
However, you look at it for Points Per Game and it gets really interesting.
Brendon Goddard 130.24
Gary Ablett 129.86
Dane Swan 126.86
Chris Judd 118.53
Joel Selwood 117.81
Luke Hodge 116.48
Paul Chapman 116.43
Michael Barlow 116.00
Leigh Montagna 114.82
Aaron Sandilands 114.00
Pretty happy with that as a list of ranked players. Guys like Daniel Cross (11), Scott Pendlebury (14), Nick Riewoldt (15), Lance Franklin 17) and even the premier defender Brian Lake (21) out of the top 10 for points per game, really showing how much you have to work to be regarded as elite.
Of course they are weighted heavily towards midfielders, but then again, they are always in the game.
You look at the top 10 scorers of last year (Total Points):
Dane Swan 2,791
Brendon Goddard 2,735
Gary Ablett 2,727
Leigh Montagna 2,526
Daniel Cross 2,507
Joel Selwood 2,474
Luke Hodge 2,446
Scott Pendlebury 2,432
Nick Dal Santo 2,362
Probably wouldnt argue with that.
However, you look at it for Points Per Game and it gets really interesting.
Brendon Goddard 130.24
Gary Ablett 129.86
Dane Swan 126.86
Chris Judd 118.53
Joel Selwood 117.81
Luke Hodge 116.48
Paul Chapman 116.43
Michael Barlow 116.00
Leigh Montagna 114.82
Aaron Sandilands 114.00
Pretty happy with that as a list of ranked players. Guys like Daniel Cross (11), Scott Pendlebury (14), Nick Riewoldt (15), Lance Franklin 17) and even the premier defender Brian Lake (21) out of the top 10 for points per game, really showing how much you have to work to be regarded as elite.
Exactly.
It's not easy to rank impact. But I can't see any way to really bump up the ratings on guys who just aren't in the play as much.
Hurley's scores would've been hurt by his quieter games. He had a couple.
Always a danger rating the kids in a premiership team higher than actually deserved.
Same happened with the Essendon side of 2000 where every player was an absolute superstar, until....
top 15 players i would pick to have in my team from these drafts. (best players im trying to ignore positional needs)
1. Martin - rate best young mid in the comp (excluding swallow damn he's good)
2. Scully - rate great young mid
3. Hill - so much to improve on still. thats whats scary coz he's already pretty good. similiar to nic nat in this regard.
4. Trengrove - a little vanilla for my liking but a very promising prospect
5. Cotchin - injury has held him back otherwise would be a proven gun already great pace and disposal
6. Rioli - has already proven himself to be very damaging but an occasionally inconsistant player
7. Dangerfield - reminds me a bit of ricciuito
8. Hurley - great kpp potential already shown a bit.
9. Morabito - injury is bad but still very promising if he recovers fully.
10. Taylor - proven kpb. only reason he aint higher is he has already fulfilled his potential and kpb's are not as important as mids or forwards to a team
11. Rich - good player may not have much more potential though
12. Watts - really has shown little at afl but does have some pretty serious talent
13. Kreuzer - i have never rated him particuliarly high but is undoubtebly a very good young ruck. The knee could be a bit of a concern though depending how well he recovers.
With Naitanui and Shuey to round out the 15. i didnt rank these 2 due to possible bias but i would have them both in the top ten. To all the shuey haters get over it i rate him more than nic nat you dont just coz he hasnt been on the park and you havent seen him. You may see what all us eagles supporters see eventually. all he needs to do is get on the park and his class will be evident.
And to all you collingwood supporters im sorry i just dont rate sidebottom and beams they are not that great and will not be that great in my oppinion. very good maybe but these are players who are worthy of top 5 picks only and it is just opinion and there are many unlucky players in lists like this cunnington, fyfe, jetta, rohan, hanneberry blah blah blah list goes on.
1. Martin - rate best young mid in the comp (excluding swallow damn he's good)
2. Scully - rate great young mid
3. Hill - so much to improve on still. thats whats scary coz he's already pretty good. similiar to nic nat in this regard.
4. Trengrove - a little vanilla for my liking but a very promising prospect
5. Cotchin - injury has held him back otherwise would be a proven gun already great pace and disposal
6. Rioli - has already proven himself to be very damaging but an occasionally inconsistant player
7. Dangerfield - reminds me a bit of ricciuito
8. Hurley - great kpp potential already shown a bit.
9. Morabito - injury is bad but still very promising if he recovers fully.
10. Taylor - proven kpb. only reason he aint higher is he has already fulfilled his potential and kpb's are not as important as mids or forwards to a team
11. Rich - good player may not have much more potential though
12. Watts - really has shown little at afl but does have some pretty serious talent
13. Kreuzer - i have never rated him particuliarly high but is undoubtebly a very good young ruck. The knee could be a bit of a concern though depending how well he recovers.
With Naitanui and Shuey to round out the 15. i didnt rank these 2 due to possible bias but i would have them both in the top ten. To all the shuey haters get over it i rate him more than nic nat you dont just coz he hasnt been on the park and you havent seen him. You may see what all us eagles supporters see eventually. all he needs to do is get on the park and his class will be evident.
And to all you collingwood supporters im sorry i just dont rate sidebottom and beams they are not that great and will not be that great in my oppinion. very good maybe but these are players who are worthy of top 5 picks only and it is just opinion and there are many unlucky players in lists like this cunnington, fyfe, jetta, rohan, hanneberry blah blah blah list goes on.
Taylor Walker anyone? Has outperformed, or equalled, the output of players such as Brown, Riewoldt, Pav etc at the same point in their career's. And we got him dirt cheap! (thanks NSW Scholarship system)
Also talked about on here and in the media as part of the best up and coming fowardline duo (with Tippett of course).
It seems this thread is just comparing the first round players, when many decent players were taken well after that.
) Also talked about on here and in the media as part of the best up and coming fowardline duo (with Tippett of course).
It seems this thread is just comparing the first round players, when many decent players were taken well after that.
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Hurley to high @ Op
Taylor Walker anyone? Has outperformed, or equalled, the output of players such as Brown, Riewoldt, Pav etc at the same point in their career's. And we got him dirt cheap! (thanks NSW Scholarship system
Also talked about on here and in the media as part of the best up and coming fowardline duo (with Tippett of course).
It seems this thread is just comparing the first round players, when many decent players were taken well after that.
Might make a top 30. but defs not a 15. he aint anything spesh. and he has definetely not outperformed either riewoldt at the same age. cant speak for the other two i cant really remember there first few years.
How? It's his opinion. Do you think you can tell him his opinion?
He was just a little bit older, but Mcleod says hello. Sidebottom will be lucky to get close to a quarter of the career Macca had.
Sidebottom will be a good player, but he is also quite pedestrian. And what I mean by that, is that he'll never go down as a great or whatever, just remembered as a solid player.
He actually has outperformed Riewoldt, but hey, whatever suits your arguement.
This is a look at their first 3 year's (including the others I've mentioned):
Riewoldt: 50 games, 727 disposals, 374 marks, 53.37
Pavlich: 61 games, 918 disposals, 316 marks, 52.36
Brown: 47 games, 700 dispoals, 301 marks, 57.38
Walker: 32 games, 323 disposals, 141 marks, 58.47
Has also kicked more goals than Buddy in his first 2 seasons playing, and can have far more impact on a game, with fewer disposals, than the other 3 players. Never been an overly high possession foward (as yet, may well turn this around). Kicked 4 on Scarlett last year too, which isn't a bad achievement for such a young player.
At least have some evidence before such a baseless arguement.
Walker is clearly the best KP prospect of those drafts, but never seems to be brought up as he wasn't a high profile pick. At least the media are starting to recognise his talent, and GWS certainly know how good this guy will be.
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