List Mgmt. Trade and F/A 2020 Cont’d

[Bramax]

Given the club was contacted for comment and declined i'm going to say there is some truth to the rumour.
I know the club doesn't have to come out and refute every trade rumour involving us (lets face it, we are linked to everyone usually), but alot of what has been written has been from Treloar's perspective, so clearly he has fielded some questions from the media. I would think the club would want to publicly knock that on the head, yet they haven't.

I understand your rationale however I believe the club shouldn’t say anything. Less said the better so nothing comes back to bite us.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

The concerning thing with Schahe is that in his 56 game career he has some shocking contested marks stats.

1 game - 5 contested marks
1 game - 3 contested marks
4 games - 2 contested marks
21 games - 1 contested marks
29 games - 0 contested marks

For a big bloke they’re not very impressive stats.

 

[Bramax]

Ridiculous if we give a 28 year old Mihocheck a 4 year deal.

3 take it or leave it buddy

I agree. A fair compromise would be a 3 year deal with a trigger for a fourth. Set KPI’s that if met, we’d gladly keep him on for the 4th year.

 

[Bramax]

The concerning thing with Schahe is that in his 56 game career he has some shocking contested marks stats.

1 game - 5 contested marks
1 game - 3 contested marks
4 games - 2 contested marks
21 games - 1 contested marks
29 games - 0 contested marks

For a big bloke they’re not very impressive stats.

At 199cms, you’d expect better.

 

[LarryKinn]

I'd be happy to go to $1.7-1.8m over 4 years. From memory, the AFL average is about $380k and I think he's above average and deserving of being remunerated as such.

I think $450 per is getting the loyalty discount, Freemantle offering at least $500

 

[Bay Pie]

It was a genuine question. I'm not in Melbourne and don't listen to SEN. Probably wouldn't bother even if I could. The notion that a back-ended contract is 3 years @ $900k is bizarre to say the least, especially when historically he's always reportedly been accepting of lower end contracts. I could understand a final year @ $900k if he was taking less in years 1-3.

I've been biting my tongue but FFS, do people really believe Sam Edmund? He's a carlton supporter. All his suggested deals favour carlton and anything we're involved in favour our trading partner. Andy Maher does similar things. He might have some facts correct but is quite loose in how he's delivering it.

When we signed Treloar in 2015. He got a 6 year deal for $4M. I.e. approx $670k p.a. The last year of that deal is next year. It was fairly common knowledge and reported by some of the guys from the Age, who don't have the bias. We gave him a 4 year extension last year, tying him to the club until 2025. Edmund is indicating that he is due $900k next year. That is the last year of his initial deal. That's possible.

Do people really think we extended him for 4 years and gave him more money and that new deal is backended?? Why the hell would we need to backend his extension?
Grundy is contracted to 2027
Treloar to 2025
Tay Adams to 2024
Crispy to 2023
We have a handful on 2 year deals, the rest one year to go.
Beams and Langdons deals gone in a year or 2 or earlier.

If he is/was due $900k next year, wouldn't it be logical to smooth that over the extension, hence the reason for the extension at that time?? Wouldn't it also be more likely that the extension was at a lower salary, offset by the extra guaranteed years? No mention whatsoever about Collingwood possibly having concerns about him needing time off next year to be with his family, as Rendall stated? Do people remember what happened with Sidey this year? Nah, it's all a salary dump. This gets clicks.

With it more likely is on around say, $600k p.a. until 2025, not bad for an elite ball winner. But that won't get you clicks. Thinking logically as opposed to melting based on some journo's (proven to have a dislike for Collingwood) opinion is crazy stuff.

 

[jonmacTrag]

I've been biting my tongue but FFS, do people really believe Sam Edmund? He's a carlton supporter. All his suggested deals favour carlton and anything we're involved in favour our trading partner. Andy Maher does similar things. He might have some facts correct but is quite loose in how he's delivering it.

When we signed Treloar in 2015. He got a 6 year deal for $4M. I.e. approx $670k p.a. The last year of that deal is next year. It was fairly common knowledge and reported by some of the guys from the Age, who don't have the bias. We gave him a 4 year extension last year, tying him to the club until 2025. Edmund is indicating that he is due $900k next year. That is the last year of his initial deal. That's possible.

Do people really think we extended him for 4 years and gave him more money and that new deal is backended?? Why the hell would we need to backend his extension?
Grundy is contracted to 2027
Treloar to 2025
Tay Adams to 2024
Crispy to 2023
We have a handful on 2 year deals, the rest one year to go.
Beams and Langdons deals gone in a year or 2 or earlier.

If he is/was due $900k next year, wouldn't it be logical to smooth that over the extension, hence the reason for the extension at that time?? Wouldn't it also be more likely that the extension was at a lower salary, offset by the extra guaranteed years? No mention whatsoever about Collingwood possibly having concerns about him needing time off next year to be with his family, as Rendall stated? Do people remember what happened with Sidey this year? Nah, it's all a salary dump. This gets clicks.

With it more likely is on around say, $600k p.a. until 2025, not bad for an elite ball winner. But that won't get you clicks. Thinking logically as opposed to melting based on some journo's (proven to have a dislike for Collingwood) opinion is crazy stuff.

This is BF - it's what they do.

 

[Mukesh]

To be honest I'm not too bothered by us holding firm on Mihocek. He's a nice player and good clubman, but as Jack Dyer said, he's a "good ordinary footballer". 3rd tall forward utility type who will probably never kick over 40 in a year

Righto.....which just lately would mean he'd lead our goal kicking by a country mile.... yeah nah cos we just have so many 40 goal a year players...

 

[Markfs]

do we start new threads on the same subject, so we can rehash the same stuff again?

 

[Bramax]

Because if we were making that trade to land McDonald, I'd be genuinely concerned by the high failure rate of key forwards drafted at the pointy end (particularly those touted as "the best KPP prospect since...."). I'd rather go in with picks 5 & 12 and take 'best available', bolster our young midfield talent (of which we don't really have much), and then endeavour to develop Will Kelly

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and trade in another.

If we landed A-grade midfield talent with picks 5 & 12, and then also got McInnes & Daicos, our future midfield would hopefully be set up for prolonged success post-Pendlebury/Treloar/Sidebottom. I know that wouldn't address the key position void, but as I said, I feel that's more speculative and I don't think that we can afford another year of either no or unrealised first-round talent.

McDonald couldn’t have been more impressive this year in the WAFL.
If ever a KPF was worth an early pick it’s him.
I understand your reservations but based on that reasoning, the club would resist drafting KPF talent forever. Yes it comes with risk but no more than other early picks (Scharenberg and Freeman).
How many years have we wished for a big KPF? Clearly what we are doing with stop gap players and rejects is not serving us well.
I’m sick of sitting around trying to land a free agent once every every 4 years when we know it’s bloody difficult (for Collingwood nigh on impossible), it’s expensive re cap space and usually involves a trade of two first round picks when the incumbent club matches the offer.
When are we going to recruit and develop our own KPF?

 

[Bramax]

Yep its our lower level players that don't rate as well so if we can bring in some decent role players to plug holes look out.

Don’t they say you are as good as your bottom 6.

 

[DaVe86]

McDonald couldn’t have been more impressive this year in the WAFL.
If ever a KPF was worth an early pick it’s him.
I understand your reservations but based on that reasoning, the club would resist drafting KPF talent forever. Yes it comes with risk but no more than other early picks (Scharenberg and Freeman).
How many years have we wished for a big KPF? Clearly what we are doing with stop gap players and rejects is not serving us well.
I’m sick of sitting around trying to land a free agent once every every 4 years when we know it’s bloody difficult (for Collingwood nigh on impossible), it’s expensive re cap space and usually involves a trade of two first round picks when the incumbent club matches the offer.
When are we going to recruit and develop our own KPF?

I'd be happy to make the move to trade out Treloar to try and get higher up the order to land McDonald. However, we also would want to have a plan for the salary cap space.

Ie, if we can attract Gunston + get McDonald for the cost of Treloar, then it is well worth it. We'd also probably get a decent player from GC, ie Sexton, Wright, Brodie or Fiorini.

I would be just making the move if it is McDonald in, Treloar out. We are in a premiership window, and you don't trade out one of your frontline players for a rookie kid unless you are in a rebuilding phase.

It would be a pretty good deal if it turned out to be:

In: Gunston, McDonald, Wright (that pretty much cements our forward line for the next 5-10 years)
Out: Treloar, Pick 12 (which we get in a pick exchange with the Dogs)

 

[Markfs]

Update on Mihocek from Mitch Cleary.

We've offered 3 years.
He wants 4 years and the money is a fair way apart.

4+ year deals are reserved for stars and Chris Mayne.

This is what happens when you introduce the poison of long term deals. I'd prefer to pay more for a shorter time frame and not lump future list managers with huge salaries spent on players at the end of their careers. Would sydney opt out of their buddy payments now if it could? Would adelaide have loved to opt out of its Gibbs contract this year if it could?

These long term contracts look like ageeing to pay off a car with a 10 year loan and finding out at the end that you've paid $30K on a 10 year old Holden Camira...

 

[LarryKinn]

AFL contracts are confidential.
All these reported contract figures, for whichever player. has anyone produced factual evidence ?
They report on each others suppositions, validating each other ffs
They man the phones, talk to whoever they can get ahold of and float whispers, rumours & feelings
a few truths sprinkled in
It all feeds the frenzy

 

[jatsad]

With Sydney desperately requiring a ruckman/forward, would a straight swap of Mason Cox

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1.2

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6.0

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3.0

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2.3

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9.0

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for Allir Allir be a win-win for everyone.
May also require some pick swaps.
He seems to be gettable.
Roughhead is getting on and apart from Keane who is still learning, we don't have a ready made big-bodied defender to assist Moore.

 

[Anzacday]

With Sydney desperately requiring a ruckman/forward, would a straight swap of Mason Cox

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Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

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8.7

2star

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5.2

2star

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3.5

3star

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4.0

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1.6

4star

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1.2

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6.0

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3.0

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3.0

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2.3

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1.0

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9.0

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5.4

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3.6

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2.6

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2.4

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1.8

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for Allir Allir be a win-win for everyone.

I’d prefer they took Max Lynch.

 

[Bramax]

Can someone just clarify...didn't


I'd be happy to make the move to trade out Treloar to try and get higher up the order to land McDonald. However, we also would want to have a plan for the salary cap space.

Ie, if we can attract Gunston + get McDonald for the cost of Treloar, then it is well worth it. We'd also probably get a decent player from GC, ie Sexton, Wright, Brodie or Fiorini.

I would be just making the move if it is McDonald in, Treloar out. We are in a premiership window, and you don't trade out one of your frontline players for a rookie kid unless you are in a rebuilding phase.

It would be a pretty good deal if it turned out to be:

In: Gunston, McDonald, Wright (that pretty much cements our forward line for the next 5-10 years)
Out: Treloar, Pick 12 (which we get in a pick exchange with the Dogs)

It seems Hawks are happy to retain Gunston unless offered an overs trade. Given he won’t be in their next GF team, it seems odd to me. He is a player that could secure a decent pick as part of their rebuild.
Treloar to GC for pick 5 and Wright (with an exchange of picks is feasible).
We would still need to trade up for McDonald though. This would involve moving players on and trading picks. Nothing is impossible though. We just need to be prepared to pay the price.

 

[loki04]

Richmond have 2 very good KPF's and Saturday it's likely only Rohan, Rioli, and Vlastuin had less impact across the 1st 3 quarters of the game Saturday night. Even in the last quarter when they got the majority of their possessions it's arguable whether they were up to their normal standards. I understand what you're saying and I'd certainly love a gun CHF and/or FF, but I think they aren't that dissimilar to how you describe rucks. The A-grade F50 talent doesn't necessarily have to be the 2x KPF's.

I'd argue it was Reiwoldt stepping up in the 2nd half along with Martin that got Richmond going in a couple pivotal fwd thrusts. Lynch also played a vital structural role and just dropped a few marks inside 50.

These players also help you actually win HnA games to get into a position to win flags. They also have stood up in PFs' and other finals.

I disagree on not needing A grade tall fwds unless all you are after is pinching a flag instead of sustained success.

 

[jatsad]

I’d prefer they took Max Lynch.

That would surely be asking too much.
1 token game in 4 years - just not up to it.

 

[LarryKinn]

With Sydney desperately requiring a ruckman/forward, would a straight swap of Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

for Allir Allir be a win-win for everyone.
May also require some pick swaps.
He seems to be gettable.
Roughhead is getting on and apart from Keane who is still learning, we don't have a ready made big-bodied defender to assist Moore.

whispers they sniffed around Sier, throw him in as a sweetener ?

 

[jatsad]

whispers they sniffed around Sier, throw him in as a sweetener ?

Maybe, but we would then also need something coming back.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

Surely Max Lynch will be off the list next year, Cameron passed him as second ruck.

The fact that the clubs won’t know the list sizes next year going into free agency and the trade period is simply a farce. How are teams supposed to manage salary caps when they don’t know what the cap will be or how many people will be on it next year.

 

[manicpie]

The concerning thing with Schahe is that in his 56 game career he has some shocking contested marks stats.

1 game - 5 contested marks
1 game - 3 contested marks
4 games - 2 contested marks
21 games - 1 contested marks
29 games - 0 contested marks

For a big bloke they’re not very impressive stats.

Took a few contested marks against us last year I think, has he been playing purely as a FF, I think they have him all the forward line, maybe he just needs a club to tell him the FF position is his if he wants it. As a junior he kicked over 20 goals a game on many occasions so he has some ability

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Took a few contested marks against us last year I think, has he been playing purely as a FF, I think they have him all the forward line, maybe he just needs a club to tell him the FF position is his if he wants it. As a junior he kicked over 20 goals a game on many occasions so he has some ability

Over 20 goals a game?

 

[sr36]

If Wright has 2 more years on good coin I’d hope we would take that contract on over 3 years. The saving between that and Treloars money gives us a bit more flexibility again.

Why would Wright agree? That'd involve him playing year 3 for free.