List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Scodog10]

So clubs try to build an ‘all for one and one for all’ mentality and you want to ship off a great servant of the club.

If someone comes for him and he wants to go fine, but forcing him out would do more harm than the limited reward you would get for him at this stage in his career.

He’d be in our top 3 highest paid players next year! When GW speaks of continuing issues with our salary cap this is what he’s talking about because another top 5 B&F result has probably only made things worse for our salary cap.

I expect he’ll get a contract extension to smooth his money out (it’s an extension that won’t be announced publicly ala Treloar being signed on until 2025…), but what he’s owed makes him a viable trading option when weighted against his abysmal leadership since early 2020.

A practical example would be that because of the Beams deal we pushed his money from the contract post that top 3 Brownlow result back and he’s owed $700-800k next year. With the AFL yet to announce the 2022 salary cap we might need to move his money around to safely get under and a way to do that without trading him is to extend his contract by an extra year at $150k. Let’s say the club weren’t complete numpties and he only has 2022 remaining then he’s owed let’s say $900k (across the two years) which we split 50/50 bringing our 2022 obligation down to $450k. I doubt we want to carry $450k toward Sidebottom in 2023 so I’m sure the club will massage those numbers to better suit instead of my very plain example.

 

[jonbe54]

He’d be in our top 3 highest paid players next year! When GW speaks of continuing issues with our salary cap this is what he’s talking about because another top 5 B&F result has probably only made things worse for our salary cap.

I expect he’ll get a contract extension to smooth his money out, but what he’s owed makes him a viable trading option when weighted against his abysmal leadership since early 2020.

Yes it's all very well to have enduring champions but there hasn't been much succession for some time now.

 

[LarryKinn]

Carlton reportedly offering $450,000 for Hewitt !!
what do we expect our offers are to Lipinsky and Krueger ?
Krueger $275,000 with incentives ? Lipinsky $ 350,000 with incentives ?
Overs ? Unders ? Trust in GW

 

[whiskeytown]

Carlton reportedly offering $450,000 for Hewitt !!
what do we expect our offers are to Lipinsky and Krueger ?
Krueger $275,000 with incentives ? Lipinsky $ 350,000 with incentives ?
Overs ? Unders ? Trust in GW

Krueger 2 year on 125-150k with incentives?
Lipinski 3 year deal on 150-180k with incentives?

I think neither have requested to leave their clubs because of money. So I think their deals will be much more moderate than than what you’ve proposed. Both would’ve been on minimal coin at their current clubs and are leaving for opportunity- that should be the selling point

 

[Scodog10]

I'd like to see your breakdown of the differences.

Please don’t! After the absolute garbage they came out with toward McRae the last thing we need is their “insight”…

 

[Scodog10]

Krueger 2 year on 125-150k with incentives?
Lipinski 3 year deal on 150-180k with incentives?

I think neither have requested to leave their clubs because of money. So I think their deals will be much more moderate than than what you’ve proposed. Both would’ve been on minimal coin at their current clubs and are leaving for opportunity- that should be the selling point

The average AFL wage is in the vicinity of $350k and both are moving for opportunity so it’s unlikely that their base will be anything less than $300k pa, IMO.

FWIW I hope you’re in the ball park because if we’re attracting guys that are going to come in and get senior minutes at that price that’s the biggest win the clubs ever had at the trade table. Massive value!

 

[LarryKinn]

He’d be in our top 3 highest paid players next year! When GW speaks of continuing issues with our salary cap this is what he’s talking about because another top 5 B&F result has probably only made things worse for our salary cap.

I expect he’ll get a contract extension to smooth his money out (it’s an extension that won’t be announced publicly ala Treloar being signed on until 2025…), but what he’s owed makes him a viable trading option when weighted against his abysmal leadership since early 2020.

I'm hoping for change in the leadership under McRae.
Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe and Roughy to mentorship roles.
Moore as Captain with Grundy and Adams as Vice Captains. A shift to youth
McRae talked about Grundy connecting with the group. I think there's an expectation that his contract demands more from him in many capacities.
I think the challenge will raise his game on and off field. I hope he replaces Mayne representing Collingwood at the Starlight Foundation at Children's Hospital

 

[WinstonWolfe]

So clubs try to build an ‘all for one and one for all’ mentality and you want to ship off a great servant of the club.

If someone comes for him and he wants to go fine, but forcing him out would do more harm than the limited reward you would get for him at this stage in his career.

What if we ‘find’ a tweet of him supporting the bombers?
Or footage of him stealing a loaf of bread from an old pensioner?
Or him starring in a sextape?

Would that make it easier to trade him?

 

[LarryKinn]

Krueger 2 year on 125-150k with incentives?
Lipinski 3 year deal on 150-180k with incentives?

I think neither have requested to leave their clubs because of money. So I think their deals will be much more moderate than than what you’ve proposed. Both would’ve been on minimal coin at their current clubs and are leaving for opportunity- that should be the selling point

Thought reports were 3 year offers for both Players
No way contracts are below $200,000

 

[jonbe54]

I'm hoping for change in the leadership under McRae.
Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe and Roughy to mentorship roles.
Moore as Captain with Grundy and Adams as Vice Captains. A shift to youth
McRae talked about Grundy connecting with the group. I think there's an expectation that his contract demands more from him in many capacities.
I think the challenge will raise his game on and off field. I hope he replaces Mayne representing Collingwood at the Starlight Foundation at Children's Hospital

Moore as captain I'm ambivalent about as he strikes me as more a private than group person.

Grundy is another matter, as a player he has been underperforming for 2 seasons and the coaching group really need to get it through his head that he needs to invest in the group and that football isn't just something he will do until he wants to move on.

 

[jatsad]

There's a lot of conjecture here about trading Sidebottom. I don't agree or disagree, however his backended contract may make this a difficult option.
If he stays, and I've been banging on about this for a while now, is to move him to a permanent forward role. I still believe he is our smartest crumber and deadly around goal. This also removes him from travelling around in the backline where his kicking sometimes lets him down and causes goals.

His time in the midfield is up, it's time for the youngsters to step up. Lipinski in there will help somewhat.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Like WHE, trading Sidebottom is just Bigfooty speculation, or more likely Bigfooty wishful thinking.

I’m sure offers from other clubs will be considered but there is zero evidence that there are any clubs sniffing around. Both will stay. They might both be part of the conversation in a years time I& we need to free cap to land a big fish.

 

[gouki88]

Please don’t! After the absolute garbage they came out with toward McRae the last thing we need is their “insight”…

Touche. Asking for a post that isn't just a drive-by pot of the club from this poster is certainly asking too much.

 

[Quicky]

I was more disappointed in his tackling than anything else. It was his worst tackling season on record.

Sidebottom will need to lift his tackling pressure under McRae who has already identified that as a focus for the 2nd year kids. Can't ask that of them and have a vet not pull his weight in that area.

 

[Everybody Panic]

Steele hasn’t been all for one and one for all for some time. Clubs in contention pay overs for players like him, we could get a second round pick which can equate to a lot!

Clarkson did it at hawthorn, if it’s good for him it’s good for us.

In what way can you say he hasn't been in? It's the thing as Grundy. Players have a bad year and all of a sudden the criticism comes and calls for trade. Maybe, just maybe having a premiership player, guy who has played in 3 grand finals and 2 losing prelims is more benefit to our young side than a 2nd rounder.

 

[Everybody Panic]

I'm hoping for change in the leadership under McRae.
Pendles, Sidebottom, Howe and Roughy to mentorship roles.
Moore as Captain with Grundy and Adams as Vice Captains. A shift to youth
McRae talked about Grundy connecting with the group. I think there's an expectation that his contract demands more from him in many capacities.
I think the challenge will raise his game on and off field. I hope he replaces Mayne representing Collingwood at the Starlight Foundation at Children's Hospital

Agree about change of leadership. I want Grundy or Maynard as captain though. Both have the ability to inspire by ripping a contest open.

 

[Quicky]

There's a lot of conjecture here about trading Sidebottom. I don't agree or disagree, however his backended contract may make this a difficult option.
If he stays, and I've been banging on about this for a while now, is to move him to a permanent forward role. I still believe he is our smartest crumber and deadly around goal. This also removes him from travelling around in the backline where his kicking sometimes lets him down and causes goals.

His time in the midfield is up, it's time for the youngsters to step up. Lipinski in there will help somewhat.

I agree Sidebottom is our best crumber. But any small forward we play needs to be able to bring tackling pressure. That doesn't come naturally for Sidebottom and that's compounded by his middling leg speed. I'm in two-minds about the idea but I like the outside-the-box thinking.

 

[Scodog10]

Moore as captain I'm ambivalent about as he strikes me as more a private than group person.

Grundy is another matter, as a player he has been underperforming for 2 seasons and the coaching group really need to get it through his head that he needs to invest in the group and that football isn't just something he will do until he wants to move on.

Do you think those frank conversations were being had with him in 20 & 21? Also do you think the previous coaching group knew how to best utilise him? My feel is that they were leaving him to his own devices too much essentially because he’d delivered on his potential and not helping to develop the next layer (leadership and stoppage craft). This isn’t to pot Buckley and co, but rather to highlight how McRae and co can help him improve.

FWIW I have no idea on the next in line for captaincy. I’ve always promoted Crisp because he seems to engage with everyone on the list, is very giving (look at him hosting Poulter and Briskey), is clearly an important member of the best 22 and is reliable in the sense that he fronts up every week. I also can’t see either of Grundy or Moore coming into the captaincy from outside the current leadership group. It’s odds on to be Adams, but he just strikes me as a budget Selwood and his body seems too fragile. A left field option Pendles stays on and Quaynor comes into the leadership group along with Moore and Grundy with the next captain to come from that group in 2023?

 

[Seedsfan]

Krueger 2 year on 125-150k with incentives?
Lipinski 3 year deal on 150-180k with incentives?

I think neither have requested to leave their clubs because of money. So I think their deals will be much more moderate than than what you’ve proposed. Both would’ve been on minimal coin at their current clubs and are leaving for opportunity- that should be the selling point

Lol you won’t get Lipinski for less that 250k. He will be expecting to play ever game next year and will be expecting to be paid the AFL average

 

[LarryKinn]

Do you think those frank conversations were being had with him in 20 & 21? Also do you think the previous coaching group knew how to best utilise him? My feel is that they were leaving him to his own devices too much essentially because he’d delivered on his potential and not helping to develop the next layer (leadership and stoppage craft). This isn’t to pot Buckley and co, but rather to highlight how McRae and co can help him improve.

FWIW I have no idea on the next in line for captaincy. I’ve always promoted Crisp because he seems to engage with everyone on the list, is very giving (look at him hosting Poulter and Briskey), is clearly an important member of the best 22 and is reliable in the sense that he fronts up every week. I also can’t see either of Grundy or Moore coming into the captaincy from outside the current leadership group. It’s odds on to be Adams, but he just strikes me as a budget Selwood and his body seems too fragile. A left field option Pendles stays on and Quaynor comes into the leadership group along with Moore and Grundy with the next captain to come from that group in 2023?

Grundy and Moore are both in the youth leadership group
I thought about including Crisp. but as far as I know he is not in any leadership group. Happy to include him
This not a slight against Pendles or the rest of the senior leadership group
I hope it grows Grundy and Moore as more complete players
It's also a sneaky way to approach salary negotiations with them, loyalty with a discount, fingers crossed

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Grundy and Moore are both in the youth leadership group
I thought about including Crisp. but as far as I know he is not in any leadership group. Happy to include him
This not a slight against Pendles or the rest of the senior leadership group
I hope it grows Grundy and Moore as more complete players
It's also a sneaky way to approach salary negotiations with them, loyalty with a discount, fingers crossed

Grundy and Moore were both in the official leadership group this year.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[partypie]

Carlton reportedly offering $450,000 for Hewitt !!
what do we expect our offers are to Lipinsky and Krueger ?
Krueger $275,000 with incentives ? Lipinsky $ 350,000 with incentives ?
Overs ? Unders ? Trust in GW

Sounds about right for both - incentives to get Kreuger up to $350k-ish, Lipinski up to $450k-ish.

 

[Forethought]

Alright yeah may not be that straight forward.

So

Pick #1

FOR

Jordan de Goey and 2022 first rounder

OR

Brodie Grundy and 2x second round draft selections over next two years.

OR

Sidebottom will need to lift his tackling pressure under McRae who has already identified that as a focus for the 2nd year kids. Can't ask that of them and have a vet not pull his weight in that area.

Didn’t Sidebottom just win the Gavin Brown award for best pressure player ?

 

[partypie]

I think we’ll be fun shy on moving our 2022 first for picks again but I don’t think there’s anything stopping us given we took 3 1st rounds last year.

I’m in favor of trading our future 2nd if we have one draft night though so that we get another pick after Daicos is settled. I think we should only do that for a tall though such as Van Rooyen or Bazzo if they are there though.


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Yep said exactly the same thing myself, if Van Rooyen or Bazzo are there by the time the Suns pick 22 (will be 24-25 after bid matches) comes around then we pull the trigger now with a draft day trade for our future 2nd and get them in.

 

[snagbreac]

I’m not sure what the rules are, but I hope the club looks to trade out our first round draft pick in 2022 for a selection of lower picks this year.
It will take care of our Daicos points and allow us to draft some more talent. Another draft like last year and we’ll be well placed. We can then look for FA talent in 2023.
As for guys out of contract like Cox, Sier and Thomas, they have no trade value. If a club comes for Cox, great, trade him. Same for Sier and Thomas. If not, we wait until after the draft to make a call on their future.

Someone showing a bit of logic. You can't just delist three players and then go 'you can't pick him up for free, you need to trade for him'. If Cox, Sier and Thomas are still available and there's no obvious replacement for them, then is it smart to let them go? Is it logical to just drop three of your players who could play at AFL level (I'm not saying they'd be stars) and are depth? No. Tyson Stengle is probably our replacement for Thomas, Coxy is likely to go for Kreuger. But Coxy wants to ruck more, not play forward. GW said so. If he wants to ruck more, does that mean Grundy can be utilised at HF or can he play as that 7th midfielder? Cox is a natural tap ruckman and we've been playing him F/R. Maybe it's time for dual R/F?