Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

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Mofra said:
Cheers.
Someone a while ago mentioned his VO2 Max scores were quite high which menas he should eventually be able to cover a lot of ground, but he seems way behind other options who are outside the 22 (Webb and Bailey Dale) while Bailey Williams looks fantastic and we're likely to go with a runner with at least one of our first two selections so competition for spots gets even harder in the next year.
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At seasons end, I don't think Hamilton's too far behind Bailey Dale, if at all. Bailey D played some cracking games but then goes missing for the next few. They have also moved him around in different positions a bit, could have had an effect, he is also selfish at times trying to 'get noticed', doesn't do him any favours when you consider how the firsts play, it's all about the team.

Like Williams, but like Webb more at the moment, love that long left foot from the guts to the forward line (Frankston game got us over the line). All these guys are still developing and maturing. Wouldn't want to ditch anyone this year, they all have potential to develop. Reassess end 2017.
 
This is only somewhat list management related but what is Steve Grace like? Any info about his coaching style etc.?
 
go you pups said:
I don't get why Carlton constantly gives kids the arse after only 2 years in the system. Surely DVR is capable, would hope he gets rookied somewhere.


They've wasted a shitload of 2nd/3rd rounders since the Ratten era doing this regularly, surely it's a development problem, nothing to do if a kid will make it or not. Imo these types of decisions have attributed to their decline.

Thoughts Mezzoculo?
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On DVR, this sums it up well:
Dannnnnnnnnn said:
Can't find the ball even at junior/VFL level, doesn't have the tank to get up the field, not a threatening goal kicker and offers very little defensively.
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The consensus is that the club's list management has been a shambles for a long while, primarily due to inadequacies in both structures and personnel in the list management team. Consequently, Carlton went through a very long period where it drafted with little longterm strategy, developed those players poorly and paid established players well above their actual on- and off-field output.

This explains why there was so much celebration when SOS et al came onboard - there is a genuine sense from the fanbase that the club has finally recognised its flaws and is actively addressing them, rather than the unelected powerbrokers putting their collective hands in their pockets and trying to buy their way out of trouble.
 
go you pups said:
I don't get why Carlton constantly gives kids the arse after only 2 years in the system. Surely DVR is capable, would hope he gets rookied somewhere.


They've wasted a shitload of 2nd/3rd rounders since the Ratten era doing this regularly, surely it's a development problem, nothing to do if a kid will make it or not. Imo these types of decisions have attributed to their decline.

Thoughts Mezzoculo?
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Carlton are the opposite of the Dogs when it comes to drafting. SOS is a dud when it comes to talent identification. 2014 GWS draft case in point.

PS Good luck to Tutty and Andrejs. Played the game at the highest level and started that journey at our club.
 

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VitalDread said:
One of the reasons why dogs hated the alignment with Williamstown
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We are not squeaky clean in getting the alignment right either. We were aligned with Werribee when James Podsiadly was there and we had no forwards and our attitude every year was "nothing to see here" and then with Williamstown they had to pay us to take Picken! Thankfully our talent spotting and drafting has improved markedly since those days.
 
Gollo said:
I've just been thinking about delistings, and I'd like to bring Hugh Beasley up again. Just look at his attributes:
191cm, 86kg
2.86sec 20m sprint
Very good one-on-one
Can play on medium forwards and genuine KPFs

Sound familiar? I reckon he'd be a good mature-age rookie option to replace Hamling. A really good option. Victorian too. Was harshly delisted by Brisbane after the season, injury issues have kept him out of the AFL team. Was rated highly by Brisbane posters.
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Just don't say he is Simon's boy.:oops::oops::oops::oops::thumbsdown::fire:
 
Alongapoke said:
Hey Fossie, there's been a few posts suggesting Cloke might get a guernsey in the backline. Essentially 'I think they're dreamin'. I have however, been wrong before. When I forget that I have been wrong before I have my greivance collector, AKA, my wife to remind me!:oops:
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Spooky I have one of those too! How does that fit in with jousting sticks?
 
SCRAY72 said:
Carlton are the opposite of the Dogs when it comes to drafting. SOS is a dud when it comes to talent identification. 2014 GWS draft case in point.

PS Good luck to Tutty and Andrejs. Played the game at the highest level and started that journey at our club.
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Exactly right. He can negotiate well, however his talent ID is poor. If you look back at his record at GWS, even before 2014, he wasted picks on way too many mediocre players. Here are some first-rounders under his watch, most of them top-10:

2011: Hoskin-Elliott, Buntine, Sumner
2012: O'Rourke, Plowman, Jaksch, Corr
2013: Toyd (a bit of a wasted no. 1 pick for them)
2014: Marchbank, Ahern, Pickett
 
Gollo said:
Exactly right. He can negotiate well, however his talent ID is poor. If you look back at his record at GWS, even before 2014, he wasted picks on way too many mediocre players. Here are some first-rounders under his watch, most of them top-10:

2011: Hoskin-Elliott, Buntine, Sumner
2012: O'Rourke, Plowman, Jaksch, Corr
2013: Toyd (a bit of a wasted no. 1 pick for them)
2014: Marchbank, Ahern, Pickett
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Yet look at their list now. He has managed to start by getting so many good young kids and many have been used as currency. Looking at their list one might suggest it's now fairly formidable . Maybe not such a fool after all.
 
Barking Mad said:
Yet look at their list now. He has managed to start by getting so many good young kids and many have been used as currency. Looking at their list one might suggest it's now fairly formidable . Maybe not such a fool after all.
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Looks like he got more wrong than right. AFL gave them plenty of early picks,he was bound to get some right. Imagine if Wells or Dalrymple had those picks.
 
Barking Mad said:
Yet look at their list now. He has managed to start by getting so many good young kids and many have been used as currency. Looking at their list one might suggest it's now fairly formidable . Maybe not such a fool after all.
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With all the concessions they had, anyone could've built a fairly formidable list just by reading phantom drafts off bigfooty. It's hardly an achievement.
 
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