Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[House_of_Dahl]

Meh Dunkley isn't as good a player anymore

 

[Struggle]

.

Westy to number 7? And Darcy then to 14?

Lobb is going to have to fight Roarke for 37

 

[Doggy]

Any DFA for us?

Stocker would be good for some depth.

Probably grab Rowe though

 

[gangsta deluxe]

I’m getting really annoyed by the superficial acrimonious comments in here about losing premiership players and best and fairest players.

You need to take context into account when viewing the departures.

Cordy wasn’t any good at all. Saints are only getting him because he is better than Darragh Joyce

41

Darragh Joyce

Age

27

Ht

195cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

3star

MG

207.6

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

4star

MG

207.6

4star

ffs and they had more need for him than us. If we wanted to match the contract offer we could have. We didn’t.

Hunter was literal cultural cancer that needed to be removed for the players to concentrate. His actions had caused damage to the self belief and motivation of the team and continued presence would mean that would fester. The fact that he was once a better player doesn’t change what he has become now (and may again with a fresh start).

Schache didn’t get a sustained run at it due to his actual on field failures that occurred time and again and were more significant than that of other players. He had the potential to suddenly be a liability. If we are to compete we cannot tolerate that, and this is more significant than carrying consistent players with a lower ceiling.

Dunkley is the only major loss and given he was out of contract I’d say we have been pretty well compensated all things considered.

We’ve done well here to get compensated for the above and better than other teams would have I’m certain. And none of them are a massive loss to the competency of our list. How do you think Collingwood or GCS would have managed all the above?

 

[Dexter6]

I reckon there's got to he a massive plan in the works for 2023. They've just cleared off Dunkley (650k) who they were trying to keep alongside Lobb and Hunter (600k). Josh Bruce

17

Josh Bruce

Age

32

Ht

198cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

90.4

1star

D

8.9

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

90.4

2star

D

11.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

will also be in the final year of a deal on significant money around that mark too.

So let's say $1.5M spare, with a slight increase with cap space in 2022. Have 2 first rounders and a* second rounder to play with too. Could be interesting

*edited

 

[TommyD13]

Not sure if the rules have changed recently but you used to only be able to spend three years on the rookie list after being drafted. From that point you either had to be upgraded or delisted. Roarke, for example, had to be delisted a couple of seasons ago and the redrafted onto the rookie list.

Correct. And both Khamis and Sweet have deals for next season already, meaning they won’t be delisted and re-drafted. Have to be promoted is my understanding. Unless the AFL introduces another rule to the already ridiculously complex rookie list situation.

 

[TommyD13]

Would definitely take Stocker over a late 60s pick that we have. Unless we can manoeuvre into 4 good picks this draft, just use the three and sign a Stocker or a Rowe.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

.

Lobb is going to have to fight Roarke for 37

Quick trip back to 2014 in the Delorean and he can have it without a fight...

 

[Doggy]

I reckon there's got to he a massive plan in the works for 2023. They've just cleared off Dunkley (650k) who they were trying to keep alongside Lobb and Hunter (600k). Josh Bruce will also be in the final year of a deal on significant money around that mark too.

So let's say $1.5M spare, with a slight increase with cap space in 2022. Have 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders to play with too. Could be interesting

One second rounder.. gave one up for Lobb

 

[Al dente]

I still have some concern over Jones, but I think any football fan would consider as a forward/ruck Lobb is well ahead of Hannan, Cordy, a raw Khamis, Sweet or a cooked Martin. They're the players we rotated through the position (happy to add a name if anyone else was tried there).

I think Dunkley is a massive loss - big bodied, marking, tall midfielders are very important - but Lobb is a massive improvement on our KPF stocks and I'm quietly cautious Jones will be ok, especially in the second half of 2023.
West & McLean would want a big pre-season. They could be the big winners of our trade period.

its going to be good to be able to throw Lobb into the ruck when 'the little Tim in big Tim comes out' (which i think will always happen from time to time)

 

[Dogs Rule]

West Coast were a consensus bottom 2 side during pre-season 2018 among journos. They screwed that up by, you know, winning the flag.

It's painful. Journos and their trade hot takes start in the second half of the season and they whip themselves into a frenzy after the GF to the point where their heads are spinning on the final day.

Most of the trade period is fluffing around the edges, it's players with limitations finding new clubs, but the media feeds on their own bull**** and it becomes so hyped (in their minds) that if you don't 'win' trade week you may as well forfeit the next year and pull the shutters down on the club. It's crap.

Lobb and Jones aren't the sole factor that will determine our success or otherwise next year (same for every other traded player) it'll be Bont being injury free, Smith having a breakout year, English freed of the responsibility of some ruck, Darcy playing all 22 and having a 1990 Chris Grant year, Naughton dominating and West taking over from Dunkley (and doing a better job). Improvement from within and a better strategy and game plan will get us to where we need to be.

Don't be fooled and caught up in the media garbage. They're as qualified as you or me, but with a keyboard and an unwarranted sense that their opinions somehow hold weight.

 

[yebach]

Would definitely take Stocker over a late 60s pick that we have. Unless we can manoeuvre into 4 good picks this draft, just use the three and sign a Stocker or a Rowe.

Stocker will make zero difference to our list or where we finish on the ladder.
We're better of having a punt on a Key Defender or Ruck.

 

[dergert]

4 year deal for Lobb...eeek

 

[Al dente]

On Schache,

ive always felt that his lack of pace and agility were just as important as his lack of aggressiveness.

A yard or two quicker, or, a dash more aggression and intent, and he would be a very good player, with both, he'd be a superstar

 

[Doggy]

4 year deal for Lobb

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

might explain why MacRae was a shadow of himself in the back half of the year

Jack and Lachie had a key link-up relationship on the ground - “Macrae to Hunter” was seen and heard repeatedly in all games, until this year. That was one sure sign that the team was no longer a team.

 

[lachy]

The real solace I take in losing Dunkley is that the Crows lost Dangerfield at the end of 2015, and made a Grand Final in 2017.
It's tough to lose an A grader but it is possible to still build and improve a side.

Geelong lost Ablett in 2010 and won in 2011, Hawks lost Buddy in 2013 and proceeded to win the next 2.

Would say both were a tad better than Dunks, one player does not make a team

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[Hobdog]

Glad Dunkley is gone. Mercenary narcissistic princess.

Sad about Hunter especially due to family connections. Cordy did well for himself.

Lobb and Jones are gambles but at least we are making changes.

Power is a gun. Never rolls over but acts in good faith when we are the buyer.

My main concern now is the fact our club is not robust enough to handle problems with our players and finds it easier to jettison them than to work through the issues and improve player and club accordingly.

If I could play devil’s advocate. It’s conceivable that Hunter has had issues for a number of years and knowing what we do about the Coach and the club in general, they care about their people and have incredible support mechanisms in place. Sometimes things just can’t be repaired to a level where it makes sense to continue a relationship and it’s best for all parties to move on. I’d rather flip it around and look at the 40 odd blokes who are likely thriving in the environment created by the Western Bulldogs Football Club.


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[Deadly Darcy]

Would definitely take Stocker over a late 60s pick that we have. Unless we can manoeuvre into 4 good picks this draft, just use the three and sign a Stocker or a Rowe.

Not sure stocker is a list need but I heard him interviewed on the annual Hutchy Cash Grab and he was very impressive. Have also heard some not so great things about him and attitude but nothing near the hunter issues. If there is a backup ruck we can get I’d try to get that but otherwise I agree he’s worth as much of a punt as a freebee as any of the VFL players we punt on each year!

 

[Hobdog]

Hack journalists 'rating' our trade period. Spare me.

Geelong and Richmond could do nothing and they would still 'win'.

Two below average players in Cordy and Schache gone, Hunter who was clearly a cancer in the place and Dunkley who has plenty of limitations and whose playing style is easily replaceable.

The way the media and pundits look at our trades is 'oooh three premiership players gone...oooh that's bad'. They're too lazy to look beyond the headlines as to why.

Meanwhile, we get a FF and FB, give Timmy a chop out in the ruck, more flexibility up forward and solid reliability down back against that gorilla forwards (our achilles). Structurally a helluva lot better.

However, let's not interrupt the media and their w***fest. Have they started on 2023 trades yet?

To me the plan is fairly clear. We think we can win a flag now, hence the recruiting of experience, but also know that sustained success is what matters, so the list management app needs to be balanced between immediate success and future success when our young players are hitting their straps.


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[Anja_Nees]

The real solace I take in losing Dunkley is that the Crows lost Dangerfield at the end of 2015, and made a Grand Final in 2017.
It's tough to lose an A grader but it is possible to still build and improve a side.

Yeah, WCE lost a raft of key players to injury and won the flag, Hawks lost Buddy, Geelong lost Ablett, Port lost Stevens and we lost Griffen and Higgins, then Murphy to injury.

Really don’t think one player alone makes much difference. They’re only one of 22 in any week.

Our issue will be if we have injury troubles in the midfield and our depth is tested, but I don’t think Dunkley hurts us much at all short term.

 

[Hobdog]

Beveridge has had long enough to foster a strong culture. He's failed in this. We have just lost two best and fairest premiership players in their twenties. We have lost a tall who showed real promise in defense but was never given a proper go in this position.

We have recently lost two highly-rated assistant coaches.

We haven't brought in proven leaders (on and off the field).

I can't remember the last time we made the top 4.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see us making finals in 2023.

So you believe that culture can be assessed on the actions of a few rather than the actions and experience of the majority? Working on that theory, most clubs must have bad cultures.


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[Dog 36]

Reg Dunkley and I have said this before we have forgotten how good Toby is and can be.

All he needs is some luck with injury and a solid pre season

He can cover Dunkley alone without all that comes with Dunkley.

 

[lachy]

It's painful. Journos and their trade hot takes start in the second half of the season and they whip themselves into a frenzy after the GF to the point where their heads are spinning on the final day.

Most of the trade period is fluffing around the edges, it's players with limitations finding new clubs, but the media feeds on their own bull**** and it becomes so hyped (in their minds) that if you don't 'win' trade week you may as well forfeit the next year and pull the shutters down on the club. It's crap.

Lobb and Jones aren't the sole factor that will determine our success or otherwise next year (same for every other traded player) it'll be Bont being injury free, Smith having a breakout year, English freed of the responsibility of some ruck, Darcy playing all 22 and having a 1990 Chris Grant year, Naughton dominating and West taking over from Dunkley (and doing a better job). Improvement from within and a better strategy and game plan will get us to where we need to be.

Don't be fooled and caught up in the media garbage. They're as qualified as you or me, but with a keyboard and an unwarranted sense that their opinions somehow hold weight.

Our football media and it reporting and analysis is beyond mediocre, it is a joke. They seem to think their role is for a gossip magazine (accurate description of Newscorp papers and shows) and their opinions are important though often with no analysis to support any of their opinions.

Though I am no fan of the US it's sports analysis makes ours look like we have not progressed from kindgartern so Dogs Rule the only negative thing I can say about your post is you are too nice to our so called sports media.

To any of our supporters, save yourself anguish and do not buy into it and also remember we are still only half way through the trade and Draft period

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[adogsfan5]

4 year deal for Lobb

That’s fine. His backend won’t be big money and he’ll likely be depth by that point.