Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Foxman98]

Defensive to replace Vandermeer? Ground level skills to replace McNeil? Or neither, really?

Kennedy strikes me as a very similar player to West which I suspect is going to be an unpopular selection quandary next year.

Think it’ll be more a Harmes/Kennedy for the half forward mid role

 

[ArNcHiSe]

We made a GF since 2017 finals another 3 of them yes we could've done more but i'd much rather that then what the Saints for example have had since 2017

You keep bringing up other teams like we should be grateful that the Bulldogs are an inconsistent mess. By the way, how did those 3 finals campaigns go?

 

[Foxman98]

You keep bringing up other teams like we should be grateful that the Bulldogs are an inconsistent mess. By the way, how did those 3 finals campaigns go?

So by your logic the hawks/swans had a shit year?

 

[hujsh]

Defensive to replace Vandermeer? Ground level skills to replace McNeil? Or neither, really?

Kennedy strikes me as a very similar player to West which I suspect is going to be an unpopular selection quandary next year.

He sounds most like Vanders. No idea if he plays the same role for us or there's something else in mind. Maybe we want to move Vanders to defence and XOH takes that spot since we're pretty reluctant to give it to anyone else?

 

[Foxman98]

He sounds most like Vanders. No idea if he plays the same role for us or there's something else in mind. Maybe we want to move Vanders to defence and XOH takes that spot since we're pretty reluctant to give it to anyone else?

We have seen what Vanders in defence looks like it's some how worse then as a forward,

Vanders becomes what he is then a VFL player

 

[El Rancho]

You keep bringing up other teams like we should be grateful that the Bulldogs are an inconsistent mess. By the way, how did those 3 finals campaigns go?

How did the finals campaigns of teams 9-18 go that year?

You still haven't said what you consider a successful year.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Think it’ll be more a Harmes/Kennedy for the half forward mid role

How many of XOH/Kennedy/Harmes/West/Weightman/Vandermeer/McNeil/Treloar/Gallagher/Garcia can we realistically play though?

Not having a go, I'm just trying to work out why these two players are our clearest targets because their fit isn't intuitive for me.

 

[Foxman98]

What the **** are you on about? Are you purposely being obtuse? Compare Hawthorn and Sydney’s finals campaigns this year to the three you mentioned by the Dogs? Who had the better finals campaign?

I'd rather our 2021 then either of theirs this year we were winning our GF half way through the 3rd

 

[Foxman98]

How many of XOH/Kennedy/Harmes/West/Weightman/Vandermeer/McNeil/Treloar/Gallagher/Garcia can we realistically play though?

Not having a go, I'm just trying to work out why these two players are our clearest targets because their fit isn't intuitive for me.

Flea is a different type but have a feeling 1 on field 1 on bench 1 on ball so 3 of the midfield list

 

[ArNcHiSe]

I'd rather our 2021 then either of theirs this year we were winning our GF half way through the 3rd

That doesn’t answer any of my questions.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Kennedy strikes me as a very similar player to West which I suspect is going to be an unpopular selection quandary next year.

If nothing else, Kennedy is 190cm to West's 182.

But yeah, both can swing into the middle and win contested ball, and both capable forward, West closer to a 'small' fwd in height I guess, whereas Kennedy would be more a Wallis/Hannan medium forward. Not sure you'd want 3 talls plus Kennedy forward at the same time.

 

[Graeme Cook]

This! Yeah it'd be nice to upgrade our picks, but O'Halloran is contracted and GWS have lost heaps of players this year.

We moan and bitch about speed and toughness, then complain when we bring in XOH and Kennedy. I'm not too enthralled with either, but at least both add something to our 22, don't cost the earth, and are cheaper than the guys we're shedding.

Winning a trade is so overrated. If you identify a player who fills a need and bring him in, you've won. If you hold onto a guy you want to keep, you win. If you shed a guy who isn't playing a role going forward, you've won. The numbers don't end up meaning much, especially outside the first round.

Keep calm folks, don't stress the small stuff.

O'halloran has pace mate and has Bulldogs in his blood, not frightened either unlike some high priced forwards we have.

 

[Foxman98]

If nothing else, Kennedy is 190cm to West's 182.

But yeah, both can swing into the middle and win contested ball, and both capable forward, West closer to a 'small' fwd in height I guess, whereas Kennedy would be more a Wallis/Hannan medium forward. Not sure you'd want 3 talls plus Kennedy forward at the same time.

Kennedy is 188cm I was fooled by wiki as well AFL site has him 188cm

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If he's a genuine wing I'm happy with it.

If he's some kinda low volume pseudo fwd-mid like 70% of our list seems to be, eugh.

Nah, he's like Vandermeer in the sense that he's a hard runner, can sprint all day, but is an improve in the sense that he has a bit more height (186cm) with more capacity to use size in contests and to influence overhead, and a bit more strength in long kicking, and a bit more capacity to know where to actually win the ball and a more accurate, determined long kick. Also has reasonable composure and can navigate pressure and traffic.

That being said, he still does a lot of running around while going missing at times (he'll play games where he's rotating from half-forward in the midfield and still only winning the ball 12 times in the game), and not overly skilled - he's not going to blind fire off a handball to a teammate or be able to lob a pass in between two defenders in a zone 30m diagonally.

It's just that that's also true to an even greater extent for Vandermeer - Vandermeer can play entire games where he has 8 touches and panics a bit with ball in hand, and can't influence an overhead marking contest given his 180cm size. O'Halloran winning 12 touches is still not great, but it's still an improvement, with a couple of those touches being successfully using strength to push off an opponent or reach around an opponent that Vandermeer's size limitations prevent him.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

This is all fine - but how do you then reconcile this with chasing Harmes, Lobb, Jones, Kennedy, and apparently guys like Barrass this year?

-Harmes was bought in to fill that HHF-midfield role, and was putting together some good numbers before injury.
-Lobb was always going to be our forward-ruck, how easily we forget the years of Dunkley, Macrae, Bont and Cordy rucking as we had no one else.. no one would of predicted that Darcy was going to come home so quickly.
-Jones? As in Liam? Do I even need to state why?
-Kennedy is Dunkley from Aldi, does all the same things just not as well.
-Barass would have been great paired up with Jones, would have allowed JOD more time to develop as a 3rd without the pressure of having to take on the H. McKaeys / Charlie Curnows of the world. If we managed to nab Barass I’d wager Lobb would be looking elsewhere this off season and we’d genuinely not have a position for him, but now he’ll continue playing second fiddle to Jones.

 

[Foxman98]

How many of XOH/Kennedy/Harmes/West/Weightman/Vandermeer/McNeil/Treloar/Gallagher/Garcia can we realistically play though?

Not having a go, I'm just trying to work out why these two players are our clearest targets because their fit isn't intuitive for me.

In theory though from the EF team,

Out: Daniel Vandermeer Gallagher (Macrae)
in: Kennedy XOH West Garcia

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Not being facetious here but the JUH being shopped around talk came and went pretty fast.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I’ve heard he will be traded to Tasmania, when they come in, seriously.

 

[Pencil case]

Pick 25 in this draft is equivalent to a first round pick in others. Do people really think XOH is worth a pseudo first round pick?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

-Harmes was bought in to fill that HHF-midfield role, and was putting together some good numbers before injury.
-Lobb was always going to be our forward-ruck, how easily we forget the years of Dunkley, Macrae, Bont and Cordy rucking as we had no one else.. no one would of predicted that Darcy was going to come home so quickly.
-Jones? As in Liam? Do I even need to state why?
-Kennedy is Dunkley from Aldi, does all the same things just not as well.
-Barass would have been great paired up with Jones, would have allowed JOD more time to develop as a 3rd without the pressure of having to take on the H. McKaeys / Charlie Curnows of the world. If we managed to nab Barass I’d wager Lobb would be looking elsewhere this off season and we’d genuinely not have a position for him, but now he’ll continue playing second fiddle to Jones.

They are short-term oriented moves, however, when the premise of your argument was that we are 'refreshing' the list with young talent. The Barass one in particular would have been a head scratcher as a contracted player who would require a pretty good amount of draft capital to extract from WCE.

I'm not arguing the value of any of these players - I'm just disputing your assertion that there's a coherent list management strategy centred around bringing in young talent.

In theory though from the EF team,

Out: Daniel Vandermeer Gallagher (Macrae)
in: Kennedy XOH West Garcia

Problem being though that Vandermeer played predominantly off half-back, Daniel HB/wing, Gallagher wing/on-ball, and even Macrae a bit off half-back in that game (see heat maps for reference).

Those four players seem reasonable comparisons on face value, but they were actually pushed out of those HF roles by others in the first place.

 

[Rookie]

O'halloran has pace mate and has Bulldogs in his blood, not frightened either unlike some high priced forwards we have.

Yup, you can see why we've targetted him. Not a bad list fit, especially when a guy like VDM is basically entrenched in the best 22. I'm hopeful we've lined him up as an upgrade for that HFF position.

 

[Foxman98]

They are short-term oriented moves, however, when the premise of your argument was that we are 'refreshing' the list with young talent. The Barass one in particular would have been a head scratcher as a contracted player who would require a pretty good amount of draft capital to extract from WCE.

I'm not arguing the value of any of these players - I'm just disputing your assertion that there's a coherent list management strategy centred around bringing in young talent.




Problem being though that Vandermeer played predominantly off half-back, Daniel HB/wing, Gallagher wing/on-ball, and even Macrae a bit off half-back in that game (see heat maps for reference).

Those four players seem reasonable comparisons on face value, but they were actually pushed out of those HF roles by others in the first place.

Think we will push Harmes/XOH more to the wing role Freijah/Dale/Bramble will be the half backs

But this is also dependent on health as well

 

[iambrilliant]

Would be pretty silly to trade 25 for xoh when we can get him for a 3rd in a years time

 

[VitalDread]

 

[True Dog]

I'll bite - he "takes the hit" prior to dishing off the handball which not all young players do. It shows care for the next possession chain which is team first.
I like what he showed. He's more than just an accumulator

This 100%….

 

[dergert]

Pick 25 in this draft is equivalent to a first round pick in others. Do people really think XOH is worth a pseudo first round pick?

It's not happening is it