Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogsman16]

There is no way to spin it. After talking a big game about holding strong, we folded like a cheap deck chair.

Not only did we give up substantially more than we got in return, but our trade credibility has also been severely eroded, so we are likely to get worse deals in future trades.

Whatever credit points Sam Power had in the bank before today, they are all gone now.

Not to mention the emotional impact of trading away champions of the club for a pittance.

Anyone talking this up as a win or even a reasonable outcome is kidding themselves.

Caleb Daniel was drafted at pick 45, is a premiership player, all Australian, BnF winner, who then preceded to get a better deal elsewhere whilst returning us a pick at 25 (20 spots higher than where he was drafted).

We struck lotto with that deal. Sadly his lack of leg speed and size became a problem when he was no longer getting the ball 25-30 times a game.

As with Macrae, he deserved to be let go for the right deal. Once again we need players who can cover the ground and (in my view) that’s Daniel/Macrae biggest downfall.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

One thing we can well and truly say that this team is shaping up to be a reflection of Bevo and the wider football department's complete rebuild of a new team rather than bringing something new to a structure that others had a hand in building.

When Bevo came to the club and brought success in 2015 and 2016, he had talent that others had identified in Stringer, Macrae, Bont etc. (though he developed), as well as established players like Boyd, Morris, Murphy, Picken etc. even contributors like Wallis and Libba had showed enough pre-Bevo (even in the case of Libba, winning a B&F) that we can be fairly certain their careers would have panned out just as well without Bevo.

Since then though, while Bevo has instilled his own recruiting, his own list managmenet, with McCartney and Dalrymple leaving, the character of the team has changed, and with Daniel, Macrae (and Smith) gone, the teams that we will put on the park will, ship of Thesus and all, be truly a team that's been built post-2016 and largely post McCartney, Dal, Graham Lowe, etc. era.

If we find success while Bevo and Bont will be the link between that 2016 in many cases they could very well be the only link between the two - ultimately two very different teams with largely different players and a different footy department (other than Bevo) finding success.

 

[Dogs Rule]

There is no way to spin it. After talking a big game about holding strong, we folded like a cheap deck chair.

Not only did we give up substantially more than we got in return, but our trade credibility has also been severely eroded, so we are likely to get worse deals in future trades.

Whatever credit points Sam Power had in the bank before today, they are all gone now.

Not to mention the emotional impact of trading away champions of the club for a pittance.

Anyone talking this up as a win or even a reasonable outcome is kidding themselves.

Reactionary garbage. Tell us what you would've done?

Hold Macrae and Daniel?

What did you expect for both of them? Keeping in mind their age and limitations.

Before you answer, Hawks gave up F1, F2 and F3 for Barrass.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Geez, I go out the house for an hour to wash my car, and come back to a massive reaction spam by Saints fans, mocking my posts saying I think Macrae is worth a pick in the 30s. A pissy 6 pick difference. You'd think I was saying he is worth a 1st rounder.

Didn't realize they were such a bunch for classless pricks for a s**t and irrelevant team.

I also unfollowed the Smith thread ahead of the trade. I just know it will go from "Smith is worth 17 only, even that is over paying", to "haha screw you Dogs, we got a bargain and ripped you off", like the hypocritical two faced pricks they might be. Especially from those two flogs with 400 posts each on the one thread.

At least the North and Blues fans were civil and good in their dealings for the most part.

 

[ScragCity]

There is no way to spin it. After talking a big game about holding strong, we folded like a cheap deck chair.

Not only did we give up substantially more than we got in return, but our trade credibility has also been severely eroded, so we are likely to get worse deals in future trades.

Whatever credit points Sam Power had in the bank before today, they are all gone now.

Not to mention the emotional impact of trading away champions of the club for a pittance.

Anyone talking this up as a win or even a reasonable outcome is kidding themselves.

It's a great outcome. We dug ourselves a hole by signing Daniel and Macrae to lengthy and lucrative contracts and then realising that they weren't part of our future plans. That was going to be a lot of our salary cap tied up in two players who were playing VFL and sub a lot of the year.

Smith wasn't worth a top ten pick as an uncontracted player but it was worth asking for one to see if we could shake anything extra than 17 loose. The Cats saw through it, good for them.

 

[Doggy Dan]

We really didn’t have any leverage whatsoever in the Bailey Smith situation, and the minor pick upgrade to get Kennedy over the line really is about as much as you could hope for.

You can be the best wheeler dealer in the world but without leverage you’re f**ked in any negotiation. Anyone who thinks they could have done better is delusional.

Power was the one that allowed us into a position where we had zero leverage. One way and/or the other he has completely f*cked up with Smith.

 

[_Cerberus_]

The Smith saga really does go to show that we need to find out if JUH is in it for the long haul or is he not.

We need to capitalise on max value if he’s not. We still have Naughton, Darcy and Croft to build a forward line around.

Come September 2025 he’s either on a long term contract or traded to another club whilst in contract and we hold the power. Just my view.

This is not a “let’s get rid of JUH post” I’d be very happy if he’s a long term player. But we need to extract max value going forward.

Yeah I think this is where the club stuffed up. We knew likely, that Smith would potentially entertain a trade the year after. We should have been on the front foot. Could have gotten two first rounders for him last year. But we didn't anticipate the ACL, which put the ball back in Geelongs court. But also, I think the system is ripe for manipulation. I bet $100 that the Cats told him to ride out his contract, as they knew they could get him for cheaper next year. To me its a form of tampering.

Club needs to make sure they are on top of contracts, and also in deep contact with those who are expiring, and see where their head and heart is at future wise. We have been shot ourselves in the foot on both the Dunkley and Smith deals. Slightly overpaid for Lobb. Thats three times we have caved in to the other teams demands at the last minute.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Power was the one that allowed us into a position where we had zero leverage. One way and/or the other he has completely f*cked up with Smith.

The only f*** up is not moving Smith on last year. Thats it. But again, it's our club being too trusting when we were dealing with a grub, a little self obsessed, snide, two timing worm. That's our only mistake.

We all know Geelong diddle with trades and manipulate the system, but the AFL have no appetite or are too cowardly to do anything, so we have to be ruthless. If a player is a chance to leave we get rid of them while under contract.

 

[adogsfan5]

Good chance to trade up with picks 17 and 25?

 

[Doggy Dan]

The only f*** up is not moving Smith on last year. Thats it. But again, it's our club being too trusting when we were dealing with a grub, a little self obsessed, snide, two timing worm. That's our only mistake.

Correct, Power completely screwed up.

 

[Claudonious]

the lesson here is not to let players you suspect or know want to leave become uncontracted,

got screwed twice with prime aged players leaving for little, while making competitors stronger

The dogs wanted Smith to leave.Not the case with Dunkley, certainly was with Smith. The attitude of both players at the end is a strong indication of this.When you want someone to leave a la stringer - you don’t get as much in return.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JohnnySteel]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]" data-quote="adogsfan[emoji6]" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Good chance to trade up with picks [emoji[emoji6]] and [emoji6]?

In a draft that’s so even, I’d rather bring in two players than trade up this year.


On iPhone using ][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bonti 5416]

Zak Butters

9

Zak Butters

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

14.7

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

5.9

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

to the dogs in 12 months….good mail that his parents are doggy die hards and that he has always wanted to put on the colours. Dogs put a proposal to him recently for 12 months time. We need to have a good year to convince him we are on the upward trajectory

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

I know it’s not a big deal at all but the post the bulldogs did about Smith on Insta was gross. Read the room, we hate the prick. Acted like we acquired his services.

And posting it before Macrae’s…

 

[Dogs Rule]

Correct, Power completely screwed up.

You say that, but no guarantee we get two first rounders for Smith last year. It was speculated, but no guarantee.

 

[Pencil case]

Good chance to trade up with picks 17 and 25?

Given the depth of this draft, I’d rather hold those picks than combine them for one pick in the teens. Especially considering we’ve just lost 3 AFL standard players.

 

[RWnBluey]

Given the depth of this draft, I’d rather hold those picks than combine them for one pick in the teens. Especially considering we’ve just lost 3 AFL standard players.

2 AFL standard players

 

[Dogsman16]

As much of a ****show the demons have been of late, they way they trade into drafts is pretty smart.

Would look to get our future first into the top 13/14 picks this year.

Let’s face it. Dream scenarios of Butters/Callaghan is fantasy land. We draft stars, we don’t trade them in.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Correct, Power completely screwed up.

You can’t trade a player who is under contract and says he wants to stay.

Smith is the dirty one here, if Cats were into him as long as 18 months he has been completely dishonest, but I also think it was mutual the club didn’t seem to want to keep him.

 

[dergert]

Where did pick 35 come from? Ours from the end of the year?

 

[Doggy Dan]

You say that, but no guarantee we get two first rounders for Smith last year. It was speculated, but no guarantee.

People happy to laud Power as a genius when a deal like Treloars falls into his lap. Don’t dare criticise him when he has seen the departure of 2 x A grade players we knew wanted to leave years prior for peanuts.

I have not been impressed by anything he’s done. He bloody gave the stupid contracts to Macrae and Daniel he then had to f*cking unwind and people are saying he did a good job doing so. F*ck me, the bloke is made of teflon!

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Where did pick 35 come from? Ours from the end of the year?

It’s our second rounder. Pushed back from the Battle, Perryman and Cumming compensation, as well as the two priority picks of North’s that they have on-traded

 

[Bonti 5416]

Zak Butters to the dogs in 12 months….good mail that his parents are doggy die hards and that he has always wanted to put on the colours. Dogs put a proposal to him recently for 12 months time. We need to have a good year to convince him we are on the upward trajectory

Mail has been accurate before.

Not the right forum I know but Smith will leave to dogs next year, get your head around it now peeps. His brother is a pilot trainor, know someone who was recently in the course and he asked him. He replied wants to get out and said it would be Geelong.

Makes sense, owner of cotton on involved in cats sponsorship too so some nice under the table stuff will come his way too.

Ive got nothing against the young man, he will find his way to be a consistent AFL player but not convinced he will be a star. Not sure he has the mindset for it, even quotes from channel 7 interview the other day make me think he is looking at the wrong things.

Hope he has a good year because he is our ticket back into the first round hopefully first 10 next year. Club is right to prioritise JUH, English contracts IMO. Would love for the culture change from all the new coaching staff, fresh ideas and list turnover to convince him to stay but if not…Smith is replaceable.

Different source with the Butters one. Very reliable around dogs. Also said we offered Sam De Koning a 6-year deal which i found suprising.

We will hit free agency hard next year. If we a confident we can land one, I can see us trading out next years first rounder to slide up draft this year

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Smith, Macrae and Daneil out.

Replaced with Kennedy and two draftees. That'd be about $1.5M/yr saving. Wonder if we have a plan for it beyond bigger contracts for Richards and Darcy.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Zak Butters to the dogs in 12 months….good mail that his parents are doggy die hards and that he has always wanted to put on the colours. Dogs put a proposal to him recently for 12 months time. We need to have a good year to convince him we are on the upward trajectory

Another reliable poster who has good sources, just posted a few posts ago that Butters is unlikely. As he is happy over there, and the club is looking to tie him down in the near year.

Two conflicting posts. Also, who a player supported growing up, is largely irrelevant. Haven't heard of any players requesting a trade to a childhood club for that reason alone.