Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs Rule]

Keep in mind people we didn't have 17 or 25 before yesterday. If this draft is deep, I say we package 17 and a future pick and move up.

 

[Dogs Rule]

I don’t understand how Daniel went for so much more than Macrae. Macrae is the far superior player, he will be StKilda’s best midfielder immediately

St Kilda can puff their chests out but they're still in a deep deep hole and a mid that's 31 next year ain't fixing that.

 

[Foxman98]

Keep in mind people we didn't have 17 or 25 before yesterday. If this draft is deep, I say we package 17 and a future pick and move up.

Be more likely to use F1 to move up or in

 

[Hobdog]

Am I alone in seeing these posts like this?

View attachment 2145566

Nope, very messy


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Chadley]

On the contrary,
Past performance is the most effective predictor of future performance.

Whoever we get with pick 25 could very well play 200 games but the likelihood of them playing less than 20 games is a lot larger.

Caleb’s chances of playing a significant number of high quality games for North before he retires are substantially higher than that produced by an average AFL pick 25 player.

The old saying of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes to mind.

Unfortunately AFL group think seems to have list managers (and some fans) acting like the ratio is the other way around.

Incorrect. The average games played by pick 21-30 is 90.2. so the chances of "high quality games played vs the average pick 25" is not substantially higher

 

[BEaston]

I don’t understand how Daniel went for so much more than Macrae. Macrae is the far superior player, he will be StKilda’s best midfielder immediately

Because Daniel said he wouldn't leave without a good deal for the Dogs. ie he was more happy to stay than Macrae was.

 

[BEaston]

If past performance is indeed the most effective indicator of future performance and the more recent its, the more predictive, than surely Daniel's actual 2024 season is the most relevant predictor here?

Daniel played two good games in the final two rounds of the H&A season but other than that it was a generally poor season including being ineffectual often when coming on as the sub, and he himself playing poorly which was a factor in costing us the win vs Geelong in the gather round game.

All of this without outstanding VFL forn this year when he played there - even Oskar Baker was the better VFL player in games they played together.

I agree Daniel is a champion of our club and has reinvented himself before and could do so again. It is through that possibility we got pick 25, a meaningful pick with a reasonable chance of a good player (unlike e.g. the 38 we gave up for Kennedy, which is a pick that significantly drops off). But it's strange not to treat his 2024 season for what it was - even worse than Macrae`s?

No, no, once someone is AA or wins a bnf - they're an elite player forever. Doesn't matter how far in the past that was.

 

[Foxman98]

No, no, once someone is AA or wins a bnf - they're an elite player forever. Doesn't matter how far in the past that was.

Can we bring Gary Dempsey out of retirement?

 

[Mojorisin]

We talked to Lobb mid season with 1.5 yrs left on his contract.
We were in talks with Barrass whilst he was in contract.

The notion that we don't talk to players who have yrs left on thier contract isn't true

All clubs need to sound players out atleast 3-6 months in advanced and alot of times sooner.
The biggest difference between the dogs and other clubs is that our dealings are done purely between list management and the players management where as other clubs have list management, coaches and even sometimes players meet up with the target player personally.

 

[adogsfan5]

That explains Connors's appearing exasperated at Mackie late yesterday and Geelong's subsequent offer to upgrade a second-round pick to enable us to get Kennedy. Connors was probably convinced that we would have let Smith go to the draft if we felt Geelong was not being reasonable. It wasn't a lot extra that Geelong gave up but it was the difference that enabled us to land Kennedy.

He basically said that he went back to the cats to offer more (as the dogs had so much going on).

 

[CDBulldog]

Plus we can't rule out the fact that Freijah himself is a genuine contender to truly breakout and be a top 5-10 player in our team. Without wanting to put pressure on the kid, if nobody knew the fact that he was a pick 45 in the draft and was treated like a top 10 pick, people would be already making that assumption about his rapid improvement continuing.

Freijah will be a STAR. I’m reading too much negativity in the thread. We just need some internal improvement and we will be good. Freijah, Red, Darcy have another gear, Bus to debut, Garcia to take Mcniels role, Weightman and JUH to play with more consistency, JOD with a big pre-season, English in his prime years starting now, Sanders to take the next step, etc, etc. there is massive scope for internal improvement with the players. We have the cattle, it’s the other things we have to get right - the coaching!!!!!

 

[stefoid]

That explains Connors's appearing exasperated at Mackie late yesterday and Geelong's subsequent offer to upgrade a second-round pick to enable us to get Kennedy. Connors was probably convinced that we would have let Smith go to the draft if we felt Geelong was not being reasonable. It wasn't a lot extra that Geelong gave up but it was the difference that enabled us to land Kennedy.

A 7 pick upgrade that we gave away anyway - it was a face saver for both sides.

Regardless , lets see our talent identification at work. 17 and 25 could be anything. I doubt we will want to trade up in this draft.

 

[True Dog]

I don’t understand how Daniel went for so much more than Macrae. Macrae is the far superior player, he will be StKilda’s best midfielder immediately

Age, length of contract and $$$ would be the main reasons there weren't a number of clubs lining up for Jacko.. Never understood peoples expectations on what we were going to realistically get for him. If the shoe was on the other foot would we take on a contract like his and offer higher picks. Good luck to him, I truly wish him the best and hopes he plays lots of good footy in the position best suited to hs game and attributes.

 

[Mojorisin]

Be more likely to use F1 to move up or in

I'd be sounding out Fremantle and GWS about picks 14, 15 or 16 for pick 25 and an F2.

 

[Doggy]

I'd be sounding out Fremantle and GWS about picks 14, 15 or 16 for pick 25 and an F2.

They'd surely want a future first

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Long term, yes.

What happens in 2026 when JUH is out of contract and Geelong have just won another flag, convince JUH to request a trade and only offer pick 18?

Yeah I’m sure Geelong are going to win the flag next year with an ageing Dangerfield, Smith’s kicking and picks (checks paper) 45, and 57.

They were sniffing around Macca and Garcia too apparently who turned them down with a whole heap of other players from other clubs not interested in going to Geelong, I guess Cotton On’s money was all tied up with Smith.

 

[RWnBluey]

Anyone know if we’re covering part of Daniel’s contract in exchange for a pick that appears overs?

 

[Mutt]

We talked to Lobb mid season with 1.5 yrs left on his contract.
We were in talks with Barrass whilst he was in contract.

The notion that we don't talk to players who have yrs left on thier contract isn't true

We also talked to Tom Boyd and met with him and his agent well before he was traded to us. The Griffen saga/opportunity brought that possible trade to fruition a year earlier than initially planned.

It seems that our coach won't meet with players during the season, but we, as a club, certainly do.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Can we bring Gary Dempsey out of retirement?

Can’t believe we didn’t let John Schultz play in 2016. A Brownlow medallist for Christ’s sake! The disrespect.

 

[Mutt]

A 7 pick upgrade that we gave away anyway - it was a face saver for both sides.

Regardless , lets see our talent identification at work. 17 and 25 could be anything. I doubt we will want to trade up in this draft.

That seven pick upgrade allowed us to satisfy Carlton's requirements to trade Kennedy.

 

[Mojorisin]

They'd surely want a future first

It'd have to be a live trade, depending on who was left on the board for any team to consider it. With the evenness of the top 25 all of GWS's targets may be gone by that stage, or there could be an enticing slider that a club will pay an early second and F1 for.

 

[Doggies7]

Anyone know if we’re covering part of Daniel’s contract in exchange for a pick that appears overs?

Mojorisin said we have completed cleared Caleb and Jack's contracts from our books.

 

[Dogs Rule]

On the contrary,
Past performance is the most effective predictor of future performance.

Whoever we get with pick 25 could very well play 200 games but the likelihood of them playing less than 20 games is a lot larger.

Caleb’s chances of playing a significant number of high quality games for North before he retires are substantially higher than that produced by an average AFL pick 25 player.

The old saying of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes to mind.

Unfortunately AFL group think seems to have list managers (and some fans) acting like the ratio is the other way around.

I beg of you, please look at the calendar. It's 2024, nearly 2025. It's not 2016 and it's not even 2021. Long long gone.

Look at their output in 2024 and shave an extra 10 per cent off that.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I beg of you, please look at the calendar. It's 2024, nearly 2025. It's not 2016 and it's not even 2021. Long long gone.

Look at their output in 2024 and shave an extra 10 per cent off that.

I’ve banged on here about the likelihood of a pick in the 20s drawing a quality player (less than 50%) but right now we know that Caleb is at best on the fringe of selection and in a year or two might not even be that.

I’d rather take a crack at getting someone of the calibre of Dunkley or West (and risk getting a Kieran Collins) than locking in a fringe player who will only be around a few years.

 

[Doggy]

Mojorisin said we have completed cleared Caleb and Jack's contracts from our books.

Tell that to the dumb saints supporters who think they overpaid if we aren't paying some