Mega Thread Trade/Draft SuperMegaUltraThread - 2015 trade period edition

[dajesmac]

Smith didn't play many above average games for me.

I'd much rather have a shot at a genuine talent and fail than land a shit list clogger who was quick on paper and softer than butter.

Our second pick still has potential diamonds.

At his best he was an important part of a top four back line. He definitely had his days. I don't remember too many stinkers from him, it was more that when he did get dropped eventually he languished a bit.

Well yeah. The initial post at the start of this chain was comparing James Parsons to Ash Smith. Parsons would definitely fall under the 'talented but inconsistent' category, much like Smith was at the time. But in a draft like this I reckon you could do a lot worse than a 50 gamer in the late 30s.

 

[WCE_phil]

TBH if we get 50 decent games out of this draft i would be stoked.

 

[dajesmac]

Like the thinking but not sure this makes sense mathematically. If only one player per draft ended up in your B22 then it would take 22 years just to create/rotate that B22. I think you might find the average career of a footballer would be less than half of that so it would be unachievable. Suspect you really want 2 (and sometimes 3) of your draftees to eventually be in your B22 or at least for them to have enough currency to trade for other players to balance your list out. Some players/positions take time to develop. And if we delisted everyone who started out being defined as a spud we probably wouldn't have a number of our best ever players (eg Glass).

Just went back through the last drafts and picks that turned into players that are either best 22 or should really be best 22 soon. Left out Hutch for personal choice but his inclusion wouldn't change the analysis much.

2007: Masten
2008: Naitanui, Shuey
2009: Sheppard
2010: Gaff, Darling, Lycett
2011: -
2012: -
2013: Sheed, Barrass (jury out on Karps)
2014: Duggan, Nelson (Waterman/Cavka very outside chances, Lamb will be gone in 12 months IMO)

Yeah fair enough, perhaps the number is somewhere between 1-2. But as I said, considering the fact that we have traded out of the draft, and it is particularly weak this year, a 50 gamer in the late 30s is not a bad result IMO. Provided our first pick does play a decent amount of games for us too. That would be say, 1.5 best 22 players from the draft. About right.

You have to also look at the way we've traded in a third of our best 22 to plug the gaps in our drafting:

Kennedy
Yeo
Hill
Cripps
Redden
Jetta
Ellis

 

[iLikeIt]

Just went back through the last drafts and picks that turned into players that are either best 22 or should really be best 22 soon. Left out Hutch for personal choice but his inclusion wouldn't change the analysis much.

2007: Masten
2008: Naitanui, Shuey
2009: Sheppard
2010: Gaff, Darling, Lycett
2011: -
2012: -
2013: Sheed, Barrass (jury out on Karps)
2014: Duggan, Nelson (Waterman/Cavka very outside chances, Lamb will be gone in 12 months IMO)

Yeah fair enough, perhaps the number is somewhere between 1-2. But as I said, considering the fact that we have traded out of the draft, and it is particularly weak this year, a 50 gamer in the late 30s is not a bad result IMO. Provided our first pick does play a decent amount of games for us too. That would be say, 1.5 best 22 players from the draft. About right.

You have to also look at the way we've traded in a third of our best 22 to plug the gaps in our drafting:

Kennedy
Yeo
Hill
Cripps
Redden
Jetta
Ellis

Nice work. Adding to your analysis -

2006 - Priddis (rookie draft), Brown, EMac, Schofield
2007 - we also did get Ebert and Selwood who were B22 most of the time
2009 - wtf happened here (other than Shep)? No wonder we finished bottom in 2010.
2010 - wooden spoon was very helpful but not ideal timing as we had all the GCS concession picks taking many of the best players.
2011 - Gov (rookie draft). Another awful national draft with all the GWS concessions.
2012 - We did get Sinclair from the following rookie draft at least.

As for trading...

JK (+ pick #3 used for Masten + #20 for Notte) was for Judd (B22? + pick#46 (Carlton took Dennis Armfield)
Hill for Pick #49 (Bulldogs took Daniel Pearce)
Wellingham for Pick #18 (Collingwood took Brodie Grundy)
Cripps+#45 (Colledge) for Picks #40 & #43 (St Kilda took Brodie Murdoch & Josh Saunders)
Redden for Pick #17 (Brisbane traded it for academy points)
Jetta for Sinclair (straight swap with Sydney)

Looking at all this I think the recruiters at West Coast have done an amazing job over recent years. Trading in 10 (6 of which are currently B22) players since 2007, and then managing to identify talent to build the list up from the drafts when our picks haven't been that fantastic is really impressive. Kind of helps when you manage to get a Brownlow medallist, a backup ruckman you later trade for a quality mid, and one of our best up-and-coming superstars all from rookie drafts mind you.

I don't think the upcoming draft is as bad as most are suggesting. We are approaching it with a lean (38-6) profile so we'll only have 3 live picks. And if you look through our current list the correlation between early draft picks and our best players is far from a linear one. I think there are some potentially quality players at our first two picks and our third could still land us a solid keeper. We just have to pick the right ones for us and invest in them like we have with our current list (I truly hope Simmo stays with us for a long time). Hopefully we'll also add another superstar to our rookie draft trophy cabinet.

 

[2006_Eagles]

Wellingham for Pick #18 (Collingwood took Ben Kennedy)

*Brodie Grundy

 

[SpaceClef]

Gov was 2010 too

 

[SpaceClef]

It's still crazy to think that in three years of very heavy midfield drafting (Masten, Ebert, Selwood, McGinnity, Shuey, Swift, Smith, Sheppard, Stevens) we are left with one player who can be considered a midfield linchpin. And only two could be considered definite starters next year (bring it on Masten apologists).

We went about things the right way but damn we were unlucky that these guys just didn't make it.

 

[Prem87]

It's still crazy to think that in three years of very heavy midfield drafting (Masten, Ebert, Selwood, McGinnity, Shuey, Swift, Smith, Sheppard, Stevens) we are left with one player who can be considered a midfield linchpin. And only two could be considered definite starters next year (bring it on Masten apologists).

We went about things the right way but damn we were unlucky that these guys just didn't make it.

We can sure pick talls but we suck at getting it right with mids. We really should have more Elite midfield talent from 05-09 on our list but we don't.

 

[SpaceClef]

We can sure pick talls but we suck at getting it right with mids. We really should have more Elite midfield talent from 05-09 on our list but we don't.

Maybe it was bad drafting but all of the guys we picked were highly rated - players who we would be picking in our phantoms if it were this year.

None of them were complete flops but they just didn't quite turn out to be as good as we needed.

Could be bad development. Almost all of the mids we picked have at least one fatal flaw though.

 

[iLikeIt]

Gov was 2010 too

Technically he was in the 2011 rookie draft - which is after the 2010 ND and before the 2011 season.

See now you lot have got me doing it. Wasting my time correcting pointless technicalities

 

[iLikeIt]

It's still crazy to think that in three years of very heavy midfield drafting (Masten, Ebert, Selwood, McGinnity, Shuey, Swift, Smith, Sheppard, Stevens) we are left with one player who can be considered a midfield linchpin. And only two could be considered definite starters next year (bring it on Masten apologists).

We went about things the right way but damn we were unlucky that these guys just didn't make it.

You think McGinnity is a definite starter next season?

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

2009 - wtf happened here (other than Shep)? No wonder we finished bottom in 2010..

Lol. Having a good draft would hardly have helped us in 2010. Not like a couple of 1st year players would have made us any better

 

[iLikeIt]

We can sure pick talls but we suck at getting it right with mids.

Could be bad development. Almost all of the mids we picked have at least one fatal flaw though.

Geez you guys are a bit harsh. I wouldn't say having a midfield with Priddis, Shuey, Gaff, Redden, Yeo, Jetta (and Sheed and Duggan developing nicely) is getting it wrong (plus Hutchings and Masten are solid - ignoring my comments in the other thread). I personally think we have a top 5 in the league midfield atm. Could even be higher next season but will have to wait and see how Yeo, Redden and Jetta in the mix works. It's not a midfield of flashy superstars but they still get the job done just like any other top midfield. I'd much rather that than have 1 or 2 blow your mind mids and the rest just filling the other spots.

 

[SpaceClef]

Lol. Having a good draft would hardly have helped us in 2010. Not like a couple of 1st year players would have made us any better

It does happen

 

[SpaceClef]

You think McGinnity is a definite starter next season?

Sheppard and Shoo.

 

[SpaceClef]

Geez you guys are a bit harsh. I wouldn't say having a midfield with Priddis, Shuey, Gaff, Redden, Yeo, Jetta (and Sheed and Duggan developing nicely) is getting it wrong (plus Hutchings and Masten are solid - ignoring my comments in the other thread). I personally think we have a top 5 in the league midfield atm. Could even be higher next season but will have to wait and see how Yeo, Redden and Jetta in the mix works. It's not a midfield of flashy superstars but they still get the job done just like any other top midfield. I'd much rather that than have 1 or 2 blow your mind mids and the rest just filling the other spots.

Wasn't talking about our midfield as a whole, was talking about the nine or so midfielders drafted in the three year period between 2007-2009.

All of those players you mentioned bar Shuey are out of scope

 

[iLikeIt]

Lol. Having a good draft would hardly have helped us in 2010. Not like a couple of 1st year players would have made us any better

Sorry thought it was obvious this wasn't a reference to drafting players that could play in 2010. It was to the fact we seemed to be asleep at the wheel that off-season and we then continued that trend on-field.

We didn't trade anyone in either to mend the gaps. Then again we didn't really seem to get comfortable with trading regularly until 2010/11 onwards. Glad we are mixing it up these days.

 

[iLikeIt]

Sheppard and Shoo.

Yes I know

midfielders drafted in the three year period between 2007-2009.

Sorry, didn't realise you were referring to just that period. 07 wasn't too bad - Masten, Ebert, Selwood. With the draftees from 08-09 do you think it was just the result of us clearing house after a disappointing on-field period? Ala Carlton this year?

 

[SpaceClef]

Yes I know

Sorry, didn't realise you were referring to just that period. 07 wasn't too bad - Masten, Ebert, Selwood. With the draftees from 08-09 do you think it was just the result of us clearing house after a disappointing on-field period? Ala Carlton this year?

I think we drafted well enough it's just a shame that most of the kids ended up being support players rather than the midfield leaders we needed to replace Judd/Cousins.

Even Ebert is only good as 3rd/4th best mid.

 

[Shmiddy15]

I think we drafted well enough it's just a shame that most of the kids ended up being support players rather than the midfield leaders we needed to replace Judd/Cousins.

Even Ebert is only good as 3rd/4th best mid.

Agree completely. I recon in the future if we drafted players like those they wouldn't look too bad as they'd only have to play second fiddle to the likes of Duggan and Sheed, who for mine both look to be genuine midfield leaders.

 

[Prem87]

Geez you guys are a bit harsh. I wouldn't say having a midfield with Priddis, Shuey, Gaff, Redden, Yeo, Jetta (and Sheed and Duggan developing nicely) is getting it wrong (plus Hutchings and Masten are solid - ignoring my comments in the other thread). I personally think we have a top 5 in the league midfield atm. Could even be higher next season but will have to wait and see how Yeo, Redden and Jetta in the mix works. It's not a midfield of flashy superstars but they still get the job done just like any other top midfield. I'd much rather that than have 1 or 2 blow your mind mids and the rest just filling the other spots.

Drafting wise not trade wise. We trade to cover our deficiencies.

Sheed Duggan Shuey Gaff are the only standout midfielders in the last 10 years of drafting - with Gaff Sheed and Duggan from the past 5 years.

So from 2005-2009 Shuey has been the only "A" grade mid we've drafted in the National Draft.

Pretty poor performance.

It's why Vozzo mentioned we'll be targeting mids this year in the draft and arguably for the next few years with our earlier picks unless there's a tall too good to pass.

The good thing with Free Agency etc. is that we can fill in the gaps as we've done.

 

[iLikeIt]

The good thing with Free Agency etc. is that we can fill in the gaps as we've done.

Does anyone think we'll look at Rich again in the free agency period next year? Three mids from Brisbane in 4 years makes them a feeder club wouldn't it?
Will Schofield and/or Brown leave us and will we consider trying to grab Hooker?

 

[getgaff]

Not sure if we have a thread up for it yet but here's the list of players I wants us to draft

PICK 28: (midfielder/ half back ranked in preference order)

1. Ryan CLARKE - 2. Brayden FIORINI - 3. Thomas COLE - 4. Luke PARTINGTON - 5. Daniel RIOLI

Clarke's my boy this draft. Been bullish about time for some time now and was a little disappointing to give up that first round pick to get Redden in but after shuffling up the draft order there's a chance he'll be there at 28. The other 4 are almost certain to be available around that mark IMO.

Cole has been linked to us more over the past week and has similarities to Jackson Nelson in that half back/ mid role that he has played in juniors.

Rioli is the interesting pick and we've shown in the past we aren't scared to go small forward early. Electric player who like Cyril will light up a game with only a few touches. Can argue that with the addition of Jetta someone like Rioli isn't required but we are yet to see what role Lewis plays whether it's HB/ Wing/ HF or a combination of roles.


PICK 37: (best available/ midfielder)

1. David CUNNINGHAM - 2. Aidyn JOHNSON - 3. James PARSONS - 4. Nick O'KEARNEY - 5. Dylan Smith

Might be a bit of a reach for Smith but this would troll the Dockers nicely at 39

Parsons, O'Kearney and Smith I reckon will all still be on the boards by than. Cunningham and Johnson a chance to go late 20s to early 30s.


PICK 53 (a medium or tall sized forward to develop in the WAFL and WAFL reserves. Looking post JJK)

1. Sam SKINNER - 2. Nicholas COUGHLAN (GWS academy bid) - 3. Matthew ALLAN - 4. WAFL/ STATE LEAGUE FORWARD - 5. Stephen TAHANA

Skinner is someone I rate highly and has only drifted because of lack of exposure during 2015 due to a serious knee injury. If he had an year free from injury he'd he'd have been a first to second round pick. Allan's already a solid size at 97 KG. Not sure if he is carrying some puppy fat or if its mostly muscle but either way he's someone we can develop. Markov more of a medium sized athlete and doesn't have great scope as a power forward.

Tahana is more of an adaptable midfielder/ defender that we can look at as a midfielder or small defensive tagger.

 

[ROC1969]

I think if he's there we will go Rioli. He is going need time to develop but could be something special particularly in the forward line where we have craved a Phil Matera replacement for some time. We have a good starting 22 and a strong pipeline of youth coming through so there is time to support his improvement without pressure.

 

[Chris_6678]

Buckernara has us taking Dunkley is he doesn't nominate the Swans.