List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2017/2018 - Refreshed (cont in part 2)

[Matt_352]

Will Collins last to the rookie draft? May go late in the national draft.

I'd take him late ND

 

[MyManLynch]

Spending money to keep a player doesn’t count. If I have to explain it then this conversation is over.

We need a “Farm selling 101” course.

 

[partypie]

I feel like finding Dunn types are the exception not the rule

To be fair Dunn was a good full back for a shit Melbourne team and effort was never an issue (discipline was). At the time where he was traded he was on the outer because Goody didn't like him (as was the case with most of the "baggage" from the pre-Roos era) and wanted to get games into the kids.

He's basically playing the same way he always has - no real surprise there imo.

 

[TradeDraft]

Will Collins last to the rookie draft? May go late in the national draft.

Knightmare could he be a top 30 Pick and Someone we look Closely with our Top 2 Picks as he is Exactly what we need

 

[Apex36]

Knightmare could he be a top 30 Pick and Someone we look Closely with our Top 2 Picks as he is Exactly what we need

I don’t think clubs ever use high picks for players on their second chance. Low pick or rookie. Top 30’s will be all 18 yo kids this year imo.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[BPikkers]

It's not common but why shouldn't it be? Key defence is actually a really tough position to fill. Especially with a well rounded player. One that attacks and defends. For example, we set up so much play through Dunns field kicking. But I can't see many who can replicate that play running around who also stops their opponent. May is probably the only one; and interestingly Reid in his prime (does he still have that depgh of kicking?). I reckon May would be an excellent addition even accounting for his potential cost.

CHB maybe but not FB.

 

[BPikkers]

Knightmare could he be a top 30 Pick and Someone we look Closely with our Top 2 Picks as he is Exactly what we need

He was there last rookie draft and we didn’t bother with him even though we were in desperate need for reinforcements in the backline.

 

[Bored_Pie]

He was there last rookie draft and we didn’t bother with him even though we were in desperate need for reinforcements in the backline.

He wasn't having the season he is now.

 

[ClaytonM]

My point was you don’t sell the farm for a defender. You may consider it for a forward who can convert midfield dominance

Yes you do. A very good key defender is just as valuable as a good key forward. Lever went for plenty and if Rance was on the open market so would he.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare could he be a top 30 Pick and Someone we look Closely with our Top 2 Picks as he is Exactly what we need

I don't have Collins going nearly so early. Particularly in a draft with such a strong top end.

Late draft though I feel he deserves another shot.

 

[Matt_352]

I don't have Collins going nearly so early. Particularly in a draft with such a strong top end.

Late draft though I feel he deserves another shot.

Hope we take him

 

[Alexander323bc]

Yes you do. A very good key defender is just as valuable as a good key forward. Lever went for plenty and if Rance was on the open market so would he.

Defenders can look better or worse depending on what is happening upfield. Fast ball movement would make even the best defenders look silly.

 

[Knightmare]

Hope we take him

I'd be more than happy to take him in the third round. He'll exceed 200 marks which is crazy stuff, even in a state league.

He's someone you draft to play to his strengths because he's doing an incredible job intercepting this year.

 

[El cane]

Will Collins last to the rookie draft? May go late in the national draft.

I watched the WERRIBEE win over the dons vfl today and Collins was prominent taking contested and goal stopping marks. Very clean mobile and didn’t butcher the ball from my tv screen angle. Commentators saying he’s the number 1 ranked player in the vfl this year.

After today’s performance I’m wondering just how soon he could go in the draft. Mature KPP with good height and skills versus raw 18/19 year old with. There are no TAC kids that are going to come in and play KPP straight out. Collins can though as his body and strength have developed.

Good luck to Sam but if we wanted him I hope we don’t wait too late and can afford to get him around our NGA f/s pics

 

[Quicky]

I'd be more than happy to take him in the third round. He'll exceed 200 marks which is crazy stuff, even in a state league.

He's someone you draft to play to his strengths because he's doing an incredible job intercepting this year.

The problem is we don't really need an interceptor. We have Shaz, Howe, Langdon and Moore. We need someone that can lock down and beat the best opposition tall. If we expect that of Collins I reckon we'll be disappointed. At Freo his short comings were he'd regularly get bags kicked on him. Or do you think he has become a capable stopper with his sabbatical in the state leagues? I haven't followed him closely.

What do you reckon about Collins Snoop Dog?

 

[Knightmare]

The problem is we don't really need an interceptor. We have Shaz, Howe, Langdon and Moore. We need someone that can lock down and beat the best opposition tall. If we expect that of Collins I reckon we'll be disappointed. At Freo his short comings were he'd regularly get bags kicked on him. Or do you think he has become a capable stopper with his sabbatical in the state leagues? I haven't followed him closely.

What do you reckon about Collins Snoop Dog?

I don't see a place for a just shutdown defender anymore. You're either a balanced defender or rebounder/intercepter.

Shaz can intercept but he can shut down. Same goes with Howe and Langdon. They play balanced games and do both. And when you pressure well up the field, those types look even better.

Moore down back is more a shutdown defender than an intercepter, though he should be either a ruckman or key forward really.

The key with adding Collins is you don't pick him to take the oppositions best key forward. Draft him to be Tom Stewart and find someone else to be that key defender who takes the oppositions best key forward - whether that's a Steven May or whoever is available.

 

[Quicky]

I don't see a place for a just shutdown defender anymore. You're either a balanced defender or rebounder/intercepter.

Shaz can intercept but he can shut down. Same goes with Howe and Langdon. They play balanced games and do both. And when you pressure well up the field, those types look even better.

Moore down back is more a shutdown defender than an intercepter, though he should be either a ruckman or key forward really.

The key with adding Collins is you don't pick him to take the oppositions best key forward. Draft him to be Tom Stewart and find someone else to be that key defender who takes the oppositions best key forward - whether that's a Steven May or whoever is available.

I wasn't suggesting that we take an unbalanced player. But Collins seems mostly intercept marking as he has struggled to actually defend at AFL level. Which makes him the unbalanced player.

I don't know why we would want a Tom Stewart type because we already have three players like him that play to a pretty high standard in Shaz, Howe and Langdon.

With Dunn nearing the end we do need someone that can shut down as the primary role but in our set up they need to be a penetrating field kick too.

You didn't answer my earlier question about whether Collins can defend at AFL level? Can he defend against a good key forward? My concerns don't mean much if he has developed into a better defender in the time since he left the AFL.

 

[ClaytonM]

Defenders can look better or worse depending on what is happening upfield. Fast ball movement would make even the best defenders look silly.

And poor delivery came make the best forward look ordinary.

 

[ThePhantom777]

It's not common but why shouldn't it be? Key defence is actually a really tough position to fill. Especially with a well rounded player. One that attacks and defends. For example, we set up so much play through Dunns field kicking. But I can't see many who can replicate that play running around who also stops their opponent. May is probably the only one; and interestingly Reid in his prime (does he still have that depgh of kicking?). I reckon May would be an excellent addition even accounting for his potential cost.

Look at Weitering. Taken at 1. At 1 you want more than that. You want Stephenson (for example).

 

[Knightmare]

I wasn't suggesting that we take an unbalanced player. But Collins seems mostly intercept marking as he has struggled to actually defend at AFL level. Which makes him the unbalanced player.

I don't know why we would want a Tom Stewart type because we already have three players like him that play to a pretty high standard in Shaz, Howe and Langdon.

With Dunn nearing the end we do need someone that can shut down as the primary role but in our set up they need to be a penetrating field kick too.

You didn't answer my earlier question about whether Collins can defend at AFL level? Can he defend against a good key forward? My concerns don't mean much if he has developed into a better defender in the time since he left the AFL.

I've answered on a previous page that 1v1 I find Collins capable. It's not his strength, but he's not a liability on that end.

You just don't insert Collins as a Dunn replacement to take the oppositions best key forward. That's not his best role and he wouldn't be the clubs best stopper. He's more someone you add in addition to a higher level stopper who is more suited to that role.

 

[Apex36]

Look at Weitering. Taken at 1. At 1 you want more than that. You want Stephenson (for example).

Weitering is a victim of poor development at Carlton imo, much like their other former number 1 picks. He had a great first year, playing nearly a full season of senior footy, which is highly unusual for a first year KPP, only to stagnate. I reckon he’d be a gun at a decent club.

 

[unplugged]

What's the knock on Sam Collins? We and any other club could've got him as a DFA last year but didn't... surely what he's showing this year wasn't unexpected?

 

[partypie]

What's the knock on Sam Collins? We and any other club could've got him as a DFA last year but didn't... surely what he's showing this year wasn't unexpected?

Biggest issue imo was probably not being able to break into and hold down a spot in a Fremantle side which was hit heavily by injuries down back - as a mature age recruit you probably need to make more of an immediate impact I guess.

 

[Quicky]

I've answered on a previous page that 1v1 I find Collins capable. It's not his strength, but he's not a liability on that end.

You just don't insert Collins as a Dunn replacement to take the oppositions best key forward. That's not his best role and he wouldn't be the clubs best stopper. He's more someone you add in addition to a higher level stopper who is more suited to that role.

Yeah that was my feeling about Collins too. In which case he'd be nice to have on the list, but with our current list composition, isn't really our biggest need. Thinking about how Collins could fit in, he could allow Shaz to play third tall although i've liked him at CHB. That likely pushes Langdon out though. It would still leave us needing a full back for life post Dunn. Do you think Collins would be a good list fit?